Alternative uses of Healing Surges/Action Points PEACH please - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

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#1 hardsteeldragon Jan 26, 2011 4:01:42	I had a couple of ideas of how you could use certain resources in different ways, some of them my group uses already and I would like to hear from you guys, what you think about (and maybe use them too =) ) First of, Action Points: You can spend an Action Point to re roll any d20 roll as no action. Once per encounter you can spend an Action Point to gain a +2 power bonus per tier on any d20 roll as no action. Once per encounter you can spend an Action Point to make an attack roll that missed a critical by just 1, to a critical hit. Once per encounter you can spend an Action Point to turn a critical hit against you into a normal hit. During a Short Rest you can spend as many Action Points as you want to regain the same number of healing surge. All abilities above, which say once per encounter are additional to the normal use of an action point, though you can use only one of them per encounter. And now Healing Surges: Once per encounter you can spend a healing surge to reuse an already expended encounter power, but deal half damage using it and take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls made as part of the encounter power. You can spend an additional healing surge to remove those penalties. Once per milestone you can spend two times a daily power's tier healing surges, to regain the use of that daily power. It would be nice, to get some critique on those rules, we use them regularly and it is fun for all, I just wonder, if they are balanced, to you. Greetings, SteelDragon
#2 pluisjen Jan 26, 2011 4:51:14	Action point rules are mostly OK, except "reroll" is pretty much always better then "get a +2 bonus" unless you can add the +2 bonus after you roll and know you missed by 1 or 2 points. Also, the bonus probably doesn't need to scale with tier; for most d20 rolls a +2 bonus is as useful at 1st level as it is at 30th. I'm not sure if trading an Action Point for a Healing Surge is worth it, but it's unlikely to be too powerful, so it should be fine. Turning a Crit into a Hit is probably not worth it, most monsters don't deal too much more damage on a crit. Rerolling attack rolls might step on the toes of any Elves btw, as it makes their Racial Power a lot less special. Negating crits/hits might step on the toes of any Halflings, for the same reasons. If you don't have any, that won't be a problem, just something to keep in mind if the party roster changes. As for using Healing Surges to regain powers; it might motivate some players to burn through their surges fast and take an extended rest after each battle. If your players don't do this, they probably won't use the rule much, because spending 2 surges for a single encounter power really isn't worth it. That's a potential of half your regular HP to be able to use an Encounter Power instead of an At-will... unless that Encounter Power has some kind of awesome rider that would mean the difference between life and death, it's probably not worth it. Recovering Dailies might be more problematic though; that's essentially the option to cast something like Sleep or Cloudkill every encounter, assuming you don't have a frontline Wizard or one with 8 Con, and that could really start wrecking things if abused. Of course, if you're having fun there shouldn't be any problems with any rules, but from an objective point of view this might be interesting to know
#3 hardsteeldragon Jan 26, 2011 5:31:37	I can see a few problems with this, especially as you rise in level. Your rules godstat CON to an extreme degree. This is particularly true considering how many excellent Heroic Dailies there are. A Paladin, or a CON Wizard/Druid/Invoker/etc. is going to always take the free daily and think nothing of it, and the feat Durable now reads "you may use any daily power of your choice twice per day." Action Points giving a +6 in Epic is excessive. +2 to attack is worth the same amount no matter the tier. Damage bonuses do need to scale to remain useful, but scaling attack bonuses are only necessary for math fixing feats. On the Action Point thing I agree, looking at it again (haven't used that rule in epic so far ;) ). The thing with the surges is not a problem, at least not in my campaign because my battles are so brutal, that even our Paladin burns through 2-6 per encounter so it IS in fact an interesting choice. As for resting: I play a high pressure game in which the party can't rest too often, which is also a reason, why all wanted more flexibility to otherwise a bit stiff Healing Surges/Action Points. If the party can rest, it is most at the time a great relief to them. But thanks anyway for your opinions, I am maybe going to change the action point bonus for Paragon-/Epic-Tier. @Pluisjen: Seeing how much all my characters burn per fight/encounter it can be REALLY worth it, converting an Action Point into a healing surge. Greetings, SteelDragon
#4 thespaceinvader Jan 26, 2011 7:15:39	A lot of your AP bonuses will essentially invalidate quite a few Paragon Path features, which do much the same thing. Making them available permanently to PCs of any level seems a little OP to me.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

hardsteeldragon

Jan 26, 2011 4:01:42

I had a couple of ideas of how you could use certain resources in different ways, some of them my group uses already and I would like to hear from you guys, what you think about (and maybe use them too =) )

First of, Action Points:

You can spend an Action Point to re roll any d20 roll as no action.

Once per encounter you can spend an Action Point to gain a +2 power bonus per tier on any d20 roll as no action.

Once per encounter you can spend an Action Point to make an attack roll that missed a critical by just 1, to a critical hit.

Once per encounter you can spend an Action Point to turn a critical hit against you into a normal hit.

During a Short Rest you can spend as many Action Points as you want to regain the same number of healing surge.

All abilities above, which say once per encounter are additional to the normal use of an action point, though you can use only one of them per encounter.

And now Healing Surges:

Once per encounter you can spend a healing surge to reuse an already expended encounter power, but deal half damage using it and take a -2 penalty to all attack rolls made as part of the encounter power. You can spend an additional healing surge to remove those penalties.

Once per milestone you can spend two times a daily power's tier healing surges, to regain the use of that daily power.

It would be nice, to get some critique on those rules, we use them regularly and it is fun for all, I just wonder, if they are balanced, to you.

Greetings,
SteelDragon

pluisjen

Jan 26, 2011 4:51:14

Action point rules are mostly OK, except "reroll" is pretty much always better then "get a +2 bonus" unless you can add the +2 bonus after you roll and know you missed by 1 or 2 points.

Also, the bonus probably doesn't need to scale with tier; for most d20 rolls a +2 bonus is as useful at 1st level as it is at 30th.

I'm not sure if trading an Action Point for a Healing Surge is worth it, but it's unlikely to be too powerful, so it should be fine. Turning a Crit into a Hit is probably not worth it, most monsters don't deal too much more damage on a crit.

Rerolling attack rolls might step on the toes of any Elves btw, as it makes their Racial Power a lot less special. Negating crits/hits might step on the toes of any Halflings, for the same reasons. If you don't have any, that won't be a problem, just something to keep in mind if the party roster changes.

As for using Healing Surges to regain powers; it might motivate some players to burn through their surges fast and take an extended rest after each battle. If your players don't do this, they probably won't use the rule much, because spending 2 surges for a single encounter power really isn't worth it. That's a potential of half your regular HP to be able to use an Encounter Power instead of an At-will... unless that Encounter Power has some kind of awesome rider that would mean the difference between life and death, it's probably not worth it.

Recovering Dailies might be more problematic though; that's essentially the option to cast something like Sleep or Cloudkill every encounter, assuming you don't have a frontline Wizard or one with 8 Con, and that could really start wrecking things if abused.

Of course, if you're having fun there shouldn't be any problems with any rules, but from an objective point of view this might be interesting to know

hardsteeldragon

Jan 26, 2011 5:31:37

I can see a few problems with this, especially as you rise in level.

Your rules godstat CON to an extreme degree. This is particularly true considering how many excellent Heroic Dailies there are. A Paladin, or a CON Wizard/Druid/Invoker/etc. is going to always take the free daily and think nothing of it, and the feat Durable now reads "you may use any daily power of your choice twice per day."

Action Points giving a +6 in Epic is excessive. +2 to attack is worth the same amount no matter the tier. Damage bonuses do need to scale to remain useful, but scaling attack bonuses are only necessary for math fixing feats.

On the Action Point thing I agree, looking at it again (haven't used that rule in epic so far ;) ). The thing with the surges is not a problem, at least not in my campaign because my battles are so brutal, that even our Paladin burns through 2-6 per encounter so it IS in fact an interesting choice.

As for resting: I play a high pressure game in which the party can't rest too often, which is also a reason, why all wanted more flexibility to otherwise a bit stiff Healing Surges/Action Points. If the party can rest, it is most at the time a great relief to them.

But thanks anyway for your opinions, I am maybe going to change the action point bonus for Paragon-/Epic-Tier.

@Pluisjen: Seeing how much all my characters burn per fight/encounter it can be REALLY worth it, converting an Action Point into a healing surge.

Greetings,
SteelDragon

thespaceinvader

Jan 26, 2011 7:15:39

A lot of your AP bonuses will essentially invalidate quite a few Paragon Path features, which do much the same thing. Making them available permanently to PCs of any level seems a little OP to me.