An alternative to "rests" - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

An alternative to "rests"

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kaliban7
Dec 26, 2010 1:48:51 I will describe here the "basics" of the mechanics I developped to get rid of - or rather, use less frequently- short and long rests.
I began searching for this kind of "house rules" because my DMing style wasn't very compatible with the "encounter-rest-encounter-etc" structure used by the game. Often, my PCs were unable to take a full rest, because of the proximity of the next encounter, for instance - and I found that often, it was better for my encounters to be either more "concentrated" and intense, or more "diluted" in space and time, with unbalancing effects.
Of course, once I "officialized" the following basic principles, I found that the whole "adventure building" process was to be re-thought and re-balanced. I've been using this system for a while now, and planned to write an article about it, but the writing of rules on how to use them in a systematic way, and how to balance encounters and adventures around it, has been ahrd to write, and still asks for more testing and planning.
Especially because I use the following rules in an intuitive, "as needed" way in my day to day DMing, and have not tested each and every problem it could rise with specific powers/abilties, etc.

So, I give here the basic principles, in case someone can have the use for them - but beware, they can unbalance greatly your game.
Last caveat : never tested this with anything published after the Red Box, so I don't know the effect it can have with essentials...

Lastly : these ideas are just a "systematization" of ideas present in the the two DMGs, I don't claim originality.

Principle :
We define two new types of "rests", that I will call "recoveries" : the minor recovery, and the major recovery.
Recoveries happen during an encounter. They are used when two encounters happen in rapid succession, for whatever reason, or when the situation makes it impossible for the team to rest for a long time.
Recoveries are tied to "objectives". Objectives are events that the team can trigger during an encounter. Objectives, on a narrative level are events that can give back hope to the party, give them the feeling they gaining the upper hand - and so give them a "healing effect" similar to warlords raising their morale, etc.
For instance, an objective could be to kill the goblin chief, or the two body guards of the big bad guy, or to get rid of the most dangerous opponent, etc. It can also be something like disarming the trap, reaching and unlocking the temple's door in the middle of the fight, killing the ennemies who were attacking a specific NPC, interrupting the ritual, etc.
An objective, once reached, immediately gives the benefits of the attached "recovery" to the whole team.
The kind of recovery attached to each objective (and what is an objective or not) depends on the way your adventure is put together, the number of encounters you have, the possibility to rest or not, etc.
Objectives, and the revories they give, should be announced by the DM : they are meant to be strategic choices for the PCs, something they will actively search to reach.

A minor recovery has the following effects :

the PC can immediately use one, and only one, healing surge, and recover the normal amount of hit points (no special "resting" bonuses) for a free action.

all already used encounter powers, features, etc, are restored as if the PC had taken a short rest - including, of course, the second wind.

the encounter has not "ended" : power with a "till the end of encounter" effect are still on, unless the DMs desires otherwhise.

a new encounter does not begin - powers and abilities that take effect at the beginning of an encounter do not work here.

The DM can, if he wants, consider this recovery as a milestone

A major recovery has the following effects :

immediately recover two spent healing surges ( three if you have no healing surges left)

immediately recover one, and only one, "daily" power, feature, item power, etc, that you already used during the day ( the DM may refuse the restoration of a given ability/power, especially for some paragon path / epic destinies abilities or power)

same thing as a minor recovery

Major recoveries are rare - they are meant to be used at the very end of a long day of fighting, when you must take a long rest, but can't. They give you the possibility of entering the last climatic encounter with nearly nothing left, but gain back just what you need to win as long as you work toward the "objective".

A side effect of major recoveries is that I was able to change the rythm of "long rests" : when fights are rare and diluted over a long period of time (like "an encounter a week only"), I only allow a long rest when I see it fit, but give major recoveries along the way. But that is another story...
Short rests are not changed - minor recoveries are just ways to allow the fight to go on when resting is not possible or good for the story.

So, here are the very basic, loose rules I use to pace the game at my own rythm. I use recoveries in a very "intuitive" way : I think about objectives before beginning the adventure, but only "attach" recoveries to them if I see it fit at the table ( "they are more tired than I thought, let's give them a major here...") - but I am slowly making them systematic (I found that minor recoveries made the "sweeping of the floor" phase of an encounter, when victory is certain but still a few round away, far more shorter).
#2
stargazer_dragon
Dec 26, 2010 4:51:11 I love the object typed recoveries, adds a bit of flavor if used right, though I might impliment it a touch difrent, definatly liked the healing effect as compleating main goals even in the middle of a fight would restor moral and help chars feal energised and ready to go. other house rules I use on power recovery would make recovering encounter powers not fit also I would make it more like a second encounter if you did choose to recover all encounter powers. in short I guess by your system I would add a 3rd type of recovery so would be soemthing like this

Moral boost: all chars gain the effects of second wind as a free action even if they have already used there second wind. this does not use up the chars second wind action. - this effect triggers when a main objective has ben ocomplished IE killing the main boss, stopping the trap that was making the battle realy hard or dangerouse...

Minor recovery: all chars may use second wind as a free action even if they have already used it during this encounter. All char then recover the use of all encounter powers including second wind and the use of actions points if they have any remaining. Effects that last till end of combat end at the end of the next turn. this counts as a new encounter for milestone and other such effects.- this triggers after kiilling most or all of the previouse chalenges and being faced with reinforcements or other new chalenges before being able to fully rest. (essentialy it is just below the effects of a short rest allowing you to run 1 combat right into the next without the issue of expired resources)

Major recovery: Chars regain the use of 1/2 of there max dailies and healing surges (could also recharge 100% of healing surges or dailies if you prefered that instead) All encounter powers are recharged. Char regain all HP.- this is triggered during a short rest after fighting at least the 4th encounter since the last extended rest or major recovery.

Is almost exact same thing you have except added a even more minor recover to fill role where u want to reword them for ocomplishing a major task but still count them as in a singel encounter. set it up so they can run 1 battle right into the next and still gain almost all of the effects of a short rest. also set it up for them to fight many battles betwean extended rests without woring about running out of resource again almost exactly what u posted just with a slightly difrent feal/effect. Side note you could easaly use such a set up to replace the standard way of recovering powers. like say instead of recovering during a rest let them recover after every 4th excounter or and after major goal or chalenge compleate so on and so forth. be removing daily power recovery during extended rests you allow encounters to be spaced days apart and still threaten to exhoust the parties resource as if they were hours or miniutes apart.

anyhows I do realy like the goal oriented recovery and think I might adopt such a thing into my games will have to put more thought into it
#3
thespaceinvader
Dec 27, 2010 6:13:13 Suggest you take a look at this discussion: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...

Specifically, limiting the number of surges/amount of HP recovery available is likely to cause greater problems for some classes and builds than others, particularly Defenders whose main task is to suck up damage from the squishier party members, and thus burn lots of surges.
#4
kaliban7
Dec 27, 2010 11:14:06

Specifically, limiting the number of surges/amount of HP recovery available is likely to cause greater problems for some classes and builds than others, particularly Defenders whose main task is to suck up damage from the squishier party members, and thus burn lots of surges.

Very true - that's why rests are still used, and why the DM needs to plan for resting time, even with a reduced frequency. "Recoveries" are just a tool allowing for a different "rythm" during play, and a way to reduce the necessity of "leaving the dungeon for resting".

In fact, they are just tools I use to get more leeway in dungeon/adventure design. The "normal" rest rules make it so that you need to "build" your adventures with very delimited, punctual encounters (in space, time or otherwise) because you need rests between them, and it leads to very "thinly populated" dungeons or adventures : either the next group of ennemies waits without acting behind the door, or you have to build long "connecting passageway" between encounters,etc.
Recoveries give me the possibility to place "short rests" between "encounter groups" (I call them scenes) and long ones between groups of related scenes (chapters), and I place them according to the estimated losses in surges.

#5
jimprofit
Jan 01, 2011 3:37:27 It's a bit too rigid and complex. If I was DMing, I'd just make two modes of "rest".

No. 1: I just declare it. For no particular reason, I'm in a good mood. Decide people aren't as hurt as they thought they were, and heal some HP. Doubtful this will happen. But might be used to try and keep players from dying too quickly.

No. 2: During downtime and they "sleep" and are in town doing nothing but fluff stuff. May have them roll dice as if number one.

At no time though can they rely on either to heal them of all their HP. Just be in better condition.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kaliban7 Dec 26, 2010 1:48:51	I will describe here the "basics" of the mechanics I developped to get rid of - or rather, use less frequently- short and long rests. I began searching for this kind of "house rules" because my DMing style wasn't very compatible with the "encounter-rest-encounter-etc" structure used by the game. Often, my PCs were unable to take a full rest, because of the proximity of the next encounter, for instance - and I found that often, it was better for my encounters to be either more "concentrated" and intense, or more "diluted" in space and time, with unbalancing effects. Of course, once I "officialized" the following basic principles, I found that the whole "adventure building" process was to be re-thought and re-balanced. I've been using this system for a while now, and planned to write an article about it, but the writing of rules on how to use them in a systematic way, and how to balance encounters and adventures around it, has been ahrd to write, and still asks for more testing and planning. Especially because I use the following rules in an intuitive, "as needed" way in my day to day DMing, and have not tested each and every problem it could rise with specific powers/abilties, etc. So, I give here the basic principles, in case someone can have the use for them - but beware, they can unbalance greatly your game. Last caveat : never tested this with anything published after the Red Box, so I don't know the effect it can have with essentials... Lastly : these ideas are just a "systematization" of ideas present in the the two DMGs, I don't claim originality. Principle : We define two new types of "rests", that I will call "recoveries" : the minor recovery, and the major recovery. Recoveries happen during an encounter. They are used when two encounters happen in rapid succession, for whatever reason, or when the situation makes it impossible for the team to rest for a long time. Recoveries are tied to "objectives". Objectives are events that the team can trigger during an encounter. Objectives, on a narrative level are events that can give back hope to the party, give them the feeling they gaining the upper hand - and so give them a "healing effect" similar to warlords raising their morale, etc. For instance, an objective could be to kill the goblin chief, or the two body guards of the big bad guy, or to get rid of the most dangerous opponent, etc. It can also be something like disarming the trap, reaching and unlocking the temple's door in the middle of the fight, killing the ennemies who were attacking a specific NPC, interrupting the ritual, etc. An objective, once reached, immediately gives the benefits of the attached "recovery" to the whole team. The kind of recovery attached to each objective (and what is an objective or not) depends on the way your adventure is put together, the number of encounters you have, the possibility to rest or not, etc. Objectives, and the revories they give, should be announced by the DM : they are meant to be strategic choices for the PCs, something they will actively search to reach. A minor recovery has the following effects : the PC can immediately use one, and only one, healing surge, and recover the normal amount of hit points (no special "resting" bonuses) for a free action. all already used encounter powers, features, etc, are restored as if the PC had taken a short rest - including, of course, the second wind. the encounter has not "ended" : power with a "till the end of encounter" effect are still on, unless the DMs desires otherwhise. a new encounter does not begin - powers and abilities that take effect at the beginning of an encounter do not work here. The DM can, if he wants, consider this recovery as a milestone A major recovery has the following effects : immediately recover two spent healing surges ( three if you have no healing surges left) immediately recover one, and only one, "daily" power, feature, item power, etc, that you already used during the day ( the DM may refuse the restoration of a given ability/power, especially for some paragon path / epic destinies abilities or power) same thing as a minor recovery Major recoveries are rare - they are meant to be used at the very end of a long day of fighting, when you must take a long rest, but can't. They give you the possibility of entering the last climatic encounter with nearly nothing left, but gain back just what you need to win as long as you work toward the "objective". A side effect of major recoveries is that I was able to change the rythm of "long rests" : when fights are rare and diluted over a long period of time (like "an encounter a week only"), I only allow a long rest when I see it fit, but give major recoveries along the way. But that is another story... Short rests are not changed - minor recoveries are just ways to allow the fight to go on when resting is not possible or good for the story. So, here are the very basic, loose rules I use to pace the game at my own rythm. I use recoveries in a very "intuitive" way : I think about objectives before beginning the adventure, but only "attach" recoveries to them if I see it fit at the table ( "they are more tired than I thought, let's give them a major here...") - but I am slowly making them systematic (I found that minor recoveries made the "sweeping of the floor" phase of an encounter, when victory is certain but still a few round away, far more shorter).
#2 stargazer_dragon Dec 26, 2010 4:51:11	I love the object typed recoveries, adds a bit of flavor if used right, though I might impliment it a touch difrent, definatly liked the healing effect as compleating main goals even in the middle of a fight would restor moral and help chars feal energised and ready to go. other house rules I use on power recovery would make recovering encounter powers not fit also I would make it more like a second encounter if you did choose to recover all encounter powers. in short I guess by your system I would add a 3rd type of recovery so would be soemthing like this Moral boost: all chars gain the effects of second wind as a free action even if they have already used there second wind. this does not use up the chars second wind action. - this effect triggers when a main objective has ben ocomplished IE killing the main boss, stopping the trap that was making the battle realy hard or dangerouse... Minor recovery: all chars may use second wind as a free action even if they have already used it during this encounter. All char then recover the use of all encounter powers including second wind and the use of actions points if they have any remaining. Effects that last till end of combat end at the end of the next turn. this counts as a new encounter for milestone and other such effects.- this triggers after kiilling most or all of the previouse chalenges and being faced with reinforcements or other new chalenges before being able to fully rest. (essentialy it is just below the effects of a short rest allowing you to run 1 combat right into the next without the issue of expired resources) Major recovery: Chars regain the use of 1/2 of there max dailies and healing surges (could also recharge 100% of healing surges or dailies if you prefered that instead) All encounter powers are recharged. Char regain all HP.- this is triggered during a short rest after fighting at least the 4th encounter since the last extended rest or major recovery. Is almost exact same thing you have except added a even more minor recover to fill role where u want to reword them for ocomplishing a major task but still count them as in a singel encounter. set it up so they can run 1 battle right into the next and still gain almost all of the effects of a short rest. also set it up for them to fight many battles betwean extended rests without woring about running out of resource again almost exactly what u posted just with a slightly difrent feal/effect. Side note you could easaly use such a set up to replace the standard way of recovering powers. like say instead of recovering during a rest let them recover after every 4th excounter or and after major goal or chalenge compleate so on and so forth. be removing daily power recovery during extended rests you allow encounters to be spaced days apart and still threaten to exhoust the parties resource as if they were hours or miniutes apart. anyhows I do realy like the goal oriented recovery and think I might adopt such a thing into my games will have to put more thought into it
#3 thespaceinvader Dec 27, 2010 6:13:13	Suggest you take a look at this discussion: community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758... Specifically, limiting the number of surges/amount of HP recovery available is likely to cause greater problems for some classes and builds than others, particularly Defenders whose main task is to suck up damage from the squishier party members, and thus burn lots of surges.
#4 kaliban7 Dec 27, 2010 11:14:06	Specifically, limiting the number of surges/amount of HP recovery available is likely to cause greater problems for some classes and builds than others, particularly Defenders whose main task is to suck up damage from the squishier party members, and thus burn lots of surges. Very true - that's why rests are still used, and why the DM needs to plan for resting time, even with a reduced frequency. "Recoveries" are just a tool allowing for a different "rythm" during play, and a way to reduce the necessity of "leaving the dungeon for resting". In fact, they are just tools I use to get more leeway in dungeon/adventure design. The "normal" rest rules make it so that you need to "build" your adventures with very delimited, punctual encounters (in space, time or otherwise) because you need rests between them, and it leads to very "thinly populated" dungeons or adventures : either the next group of ennemies waits without acting behind the door, or you have to build long "connecting passageway" between encounters,etc. Recoveries give me the possibility to place "short rests" between "encounter groups" (I call them scenes) and long ones between groups of related scenes (chapters), and I place them according to the estimated losses in surges.
#5 jimprofit Jan 01, 2011 3:37:27	It's a bit too rigid and complex. If I was DMing, I'd just make two modes of "rest". No. 1: I just declare it. For no particular reason, I'm in a good mood. Decide people aren't as hurt as they thought they were, and heal some HP. Doubtful this will happen. But might be used to try and keep players from dying too quickly. No. 2: During downtime and they "sleep" and are in town doing nothing but fluff stuff. May have them roll dice as if number one. At no time though can they rely on either to heal them of all their HP. Just be in better condition.