Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 captain_commando May 16, 2009 14:43:07	Hi. I am currently setting up a new professional game master business (on the side). I'm going to be offering a replacement option for my clients that order DnD 4e sessions and don't like the disruption of dying in the game. I'm under a lot of pressure to get a lot of work done in a short amount of time. If you'd like to help me save time by throwing your ideas and feedback at this, it would be much appreciated. Here's the replacement option (optional): Heroic Death Throes A character is allowed an unlimited number of death saving throws and does not die unless the circumstances absolutely prevent survival (jumping into lava, getting sliced in half, etc.). When a character makes a death saving throw and fails, a roll on the following list must be made. When you are reduced to 0 hit points or less, you remain conscious but can not take any actions except free actions. When you stabilize, you return to 0 hit points but can only perform a single action per turn until your hit points become 1 or more. If you take damage again, you are dying again until you stabilize. Roll a dX when you've failed a death saving throw. 1. You keep your eyes open for the enemy's attack, warning your comrade in the nick of time. You can give an ally a +2 bonus to all defenses against an attack as an immediate interrupt until the start of your next turn. 2. You pray to your deity for aid. You regain 1 healing surge if you have no healing surges left. 3. You call out to encourage your allies to stand their ground. Your allies regain hit points equal to your Intelligence or Charisma modifier (minimum 1). 4. You call to your allies for help. All allies within 5 squares can shift 1 square towards you. I want to end up with at least 20 for the final list. Both good and bad results will be in the final version.
#2 pboyer May 17, 2009 13:41:22	I understand that the customer is always right and I respect that you are adhering to that mantra. In the name of simplicity, I recommend that you find an alternative solution than a table of random effects. These kinds of tables go against the 4th Edition design philosophy of "bad stuff happening randomly is not fair and NOT FUN." If your friends and you like these types of tables, by all means use them in your home games. For your paying customers, I encourage you to play by-the-books as much as possible. Make houserules as simple as possible. To make a "no-death" houserule, keep the death saving throw, but don't tick off the failed death saves when the player rolls under 10. If the player rolls a natural 20, he/she can regain consciousness and spend a healing (like in the current rules.)
#3 captain_commando May 28, 2009 22:57:11	After a bit of back and forth across several forums, it seems that the following might be good as an alternative: 1. Allow a choice of special actions on a failed saving throw and/or allow one regular action per turn on a successful death saving throw. 2. Allow certain actions as a dead "ghost" while the character is dead.
#4 Nerpherder May 28, 2009 23:05:18	Change the Death Save to fail only on a 1. Then if thats not enough make the normal "you can spend a Healing Surge" down to 10 or above. -Nerp
#5 captain_commando May 28, 2009 23:13:08	Change the Death Save to fail only on a 1. Then if thats not enough make the normal "you can spend a Healing Surge" down to 10 or above. -Nerp And if the player rolls a 1?
#6 Nerpherder May 29, 2009 9:01:13	Well like in straight 4e you can fail 3 before you are dead dead. I know you want to keep your customers from being board if they die, but if there is no fear of death what’s the point of adventuring? By making it a fail only on a one then you have a 5% chance to fail as opposed to the current 5% to wake up As a side note I thought it would be cool to play an adventure with a group of PCs who had the same power as Azazul in the Denzel Washington movie "Fallen." If you haven’t seen it he is hunting a spirit that can take over anyone, he has to touch them and then they have to be weak willed or else he gets forced out. If his host dies he can force himself into anyone with in, I think, around 50 ft. The party would all have this ability and Id work it like so: powers Possessing Touch Standard Action Melee touch Target: One creature Attack: Wisdom or Charisma +2 vs. Will Hit: You gain control of the target creature, your current PC becomes dazed till then end of its next turn and becomes an NPC. Your mental stats over write the mental stats of the new body. Special: You choose Wisdom or Charisma when you gain this ability. Last Breath Free Action Close burst 10 Trigger: You fail your third death saving throw. Target: Any creature in burst Attack: Wisdom or Charisma +1/2 your level vs. Will Hit: You gain control of the target creature. Your mental stats over write the mental stats of the new body, but the creature retains its physical stats. Special: You choose Wisdom or Charisma when you gain this ability.
#7 mellored May 29, 2009 12:04:10	Just don't kill them. After the third failed throw, or negative blooded, they are out till an extended rest (or 24 hours). Give's the monsters plenty of time to do what they want to them.
#8 captain_commando May 29, 2009 19:06:13	Just don't kill them. After the third failed throw, or negative blooded, they are out till an extended rest (or 24 hours). Give's the monsters plenty of time to do what they want to them. That might work if the whole party went down at the same time but I'm trying to make sure any individual player doesn't get effectively kicked out of play for more than a minute or two. A couple of other options I have are backup characters and letting PCs act even though dying but switch to narrative ending or skill challenge if all are dying. To the "point of adventuring" if no one dies, there is always the direction of the story. There is the chance of getting a different ending than tried for but exciting and dramatic nonetheless. After all, it's DnD I'll be running, not DDM. The "ghost mode" could include disruptive effects that give penalties to enemies and "possession effects" that take control of enemy or ally actions. The set of abilities could be given based on the primary combat role of the character...
#9 magus_stragus May 30, 2009 9:36:26	Personally, I would get bored with a game without real threats. Part of the fun and excitement of DnD is avoid getting killed WHILE progressing in a story. If the only thing you're going to offer your players is a story to follow, might as well just open a book store or a theatre. Sorry if I sound harsh, but really, I think dying is one of the most important parts of adventuring, and one of the most important motivators out there.
#10 Artifact May 30, 2009 10:06:13	I agree a game should have real threats, otherwise it gets boring fast. Death doesn't have to be one of those threats however. What if the players were able to 're-spawn', similar to what happens in many video games when 'health' runs out? The threat in such games isn't so much in dying but in over-coming the challenges of the game. That would be the real trick, emulating the trial-and-error nature of such games; keeping it fun. Maybe set up 'save' points in the campaign. I'm sure this approach has been discussed before but this thread got me thinking (again). 'Save' points would be an alternative to death but would also present design challenges elsewhere.
#11 magus_stragus May 30, 2009 10:44:41	Well, that's actually a good way to overcome the death problem. Your characters can die, but they can either re-spawn or "reload their saved game". They would still have to beat the challenge, but they can try any number of times before dying. However, there should be a price, like gold loss or xp loss, just to make it more fun. :D
#12 Artifact May 30, 2009 11:04:37	The most recent example I can think of concerning 'reloading' in a video game is Assassin's Creed (I rented and played a few hours worth ;)). Basically, a modern day character is able to 'synchronize' (via technology) with an ancestor from the past. When the ancestor dies, the modern-day counterpart looses sync and has to start over. This modern day fella can access various 'files' (missions/games) he has successfully completed through his counterpart in the past. Emulating this in a D&D game would be fun I think ;).
#13 magus_stragus May 30, 2009 17:20:00	Treating DnD like if it weren't a real world but memories/simulation game? Hmm... I find that really interesting. Might as well try it some day.
#14 matthewswift May 30, 2009 22:28:39	Give them the option to die in an epic manner. "The brute drops you below boodied in one shot" sucks. "With your dying breath you drag the brute down with you" is better. "You perform a flying tackle as the brute's mace collides with your ribs, the two of you go over the edge and into the abyss" is freaking epic.