Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 person34 Jul 23, 2009 15:09:11	I have an idea for characters that die in a group where resurrection is difficult or impossible at the time of death to keep the dead player still active. I just wanted to run it by people to see if it was too generous. Basically, if a player dies, after a short rest they leave their body as a ghost. In this "Ghost" form, the character has a few things that they can do. First, they act as a normal character, however; They must be within half a mile of their corpse. They act as if they have the Dazed condition. They act as if they have the Weakened condition. Only allies can see them. They do not gain Combat advantage They can only speak to a creature they are adjacent to. They can only attack creatures that have attacked a party member previously. Let me know what you think. I know there are all sorts of loopholes players could run, but then I figure since you are allowing them be a ghost they will hopefully hold back a bit.
#2 vebrandsson Jul 23, 2009 19:17:54	I have a simpler solution for you, its called handing out raise dead scrolls every so often as part of treasure, helps a lot particularly in the low levels.
#3 ChimericPhase Jul 23, 2009 23:04:28	If you wanted to weaken it, instead of allowing a ghosted character to straight out attack creatures with their powers, instead only allow them to make Aid Another checks to help their allies. To me, this fits the mental image of a ghostly helper, unable to directly affect things but able to muster just enough influence to help someone else complete something. @Vebrandsson, a valid suggestion, but one that doesn't address the OP's question. person34's idea is great for a low-magic campaign.
#4 Rustmonster Jul 24, 2009 11:49:47	@Vebrandsson, a valid suggestion, but one that doesn't address the OP's question. person34's idea is great for a low-magic campaign. It's a great idea for a low-magic campaign that never goes half a mile from where a character dies. Really, this just delays the inevitable; rolling up a new character. I mean, I see that it sort of allows the player to play for a little while (sort of), at least until the current part of the adventure ends, but then you also have to ask yourself a question. Can enemies do this? If they can, then encounters just got harder, and more confusing, as you need to make an explaination for why everything that dies becomes a ghost. If they can't you have to justify why the PCs keep ghosting whenever they die. I wouldn't exactly call a setting where everyone is constantly coming back as a ghost and continues fighting to be "low-magic".
#5 person34 Jul 24, 2009 12:25:32	You guys have come up with a lot of valid points. I like the aid another idea, and I may implement it. Let me just clarify why I am doing things this way. At the moment in my campaign the characters have not found a city or town with a raise dead ritual available for purchase. Mainly because I think they should be fairly rare, and I want to make a little side quest out of finding one. So since it may take a bit of time I don't want the dead player playing on the computer while the rest of the group explores the wilderness. As for the negative things, the player has to be within half a mile of its corpse, not the place it died. Which I probably didn't get across well, so sorry for that. The whole why don't all creatures that die turning into ghosts thing will be hard to explain, so I am glad that was brought up so I have time to think about that. Thanks for the help so far! Any more advice or criticism is always welcome!
#6 Rustmonster Jul 24, 2009 12:46:51	As for the negative things, the player has to be within half a mile of its corpse, not the place it died. Which I probably didn't get across well, so sorry for that. Hmm. Gentle Repose, plus Floating Disc. Drag the corpse behind you and have the ghost for the entire adventure, hehe. :D
#7 vebrandsson Jul 24, 2009 13:33:29	I think the flaw is that you are making raise dead rituals rare, which I don't think works terribly well, besides you must realize that if you have a smart party as soon as your ritual caster can cast raise dead he is going to make a scroll copy of it for each party member that way anyone can use it and then it doesn't matter.
#8 person34 Jul 24, 2009 13:52:35	I think the flaw is that you are making raise dead rituals rare, which I don't think works terribly well, besides you must realize that if you have a smart party as soon as your ritual caster can cast raise dead he is going to make a scroll copy of it for each party member that way anyone can use it and then it doesn't matter. This I don't mind so much. Adventurers being able to be resurrected is not a problem. In fact I want them to get resurrected, rather than roll up a new character, which is why I still want them to be active during this side quest. The reason the raise dead ritual is rare, is because I find it odd that the whole world isn't overpopulated if all it takes is 500 gold to get someone to jump back on their feet. Since that is basically $50,000 to bring a family member back from the dead, while a large sum, will not stop plenty of people from going destitute. So, make the ability rare and that problem sort of hides itself better. Having the heroes of the story have more power than is available to the general public is fine, but I don't just want them to stop by the corner market and pick it up. At least that is how it works in my head. Also, my group hasn't even looked for the ritual yet, but that's because no one has died... So, I want to be prepared for that event while keeping everyone at the table involved the whole time. Hmm. Gentle Repose, plus Floating Disc. Drag the corpse behind you and have the ghost for the entire adventure, hehe. This is a huge reason why if I do go through with this, the ghost would be able to communicate with party members. Sure a helpful ghost is nice to have around, but an annoying ghost always nagging about how he is dead... forget that.
#9 ChimericPhase Jul 24, 2009 15:23:49	As for the negative things, the player has to be within half a mile of its corpse, not the place it died. Which I probably didn't get across well, so sorry for that. This is what I figured you meant. Corpses are portable. The whole why don't all creatures that die turning into ghosts thing will be hard to explain, so I am glad that was brought up so I have time to think about that. Not hard, two things: First you have specified that only allies see the ghosts. If a monster ghosted, the players wouldn't see it at all - they also wouldn't see if that ghost was aiding another monster or just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. Secondly, fluff reason - The PCs are peices of destiny in action, lingering as a ghost is a reflection of their yearning to complete what they were meant to do. The bugbear they just killed is not destined to accomplish greatness, his soul is made of lesser stuffs so at the advent of death, he succumbs to the beyond. As long as the alternative is feasible, and everyone at the table has the same expectations, then it works. This is the heart of houserules. If your players begin to complain that they don't like this method, consider amending it promptly. Otherwise go for it. I'd like to say that if a DM wants to implment an alternative to the "pheonix down" effect they are pefectly entitled to. Handing out instant get-out-of-death free cards have always taken away from the urgency of death to me. "Oh dear, Jim's dead again, someone get the scrollcase..." This is purely my personal opinion and I acknowledge that other people will feel differently and I want everyone to play the way they enjoy the most. I personally have never handed out raise dead or any of it's equivalents for as long as I've been DMing. Returning from the dead of any kind is pretty rare in my games. If a PC dies and that player wants to keep that character alive they don't whine about a lack of scrolls - they come to me and talk about what could happen to bring that character back to life. We work out a plan and then we implement it either in a one-on-one rp session or with the group in the next session. It's fun and interesting. None of my players have objected to the lack of resurrection magics.