Any homebrew rules where you get specific powers based on what animal you have wild shaped into? Not just fighting powers but roleplay type stuff like breathing under water, flying, climbing, running, etc...?
Or am I just missing it in the book somewhere?
The druid used to be my favorite class and I couldn't wait for this one to come out but I was very disapointed with it
Not looking for an argument, just looking for some ideas.
um look at the druid utility powers its all there.
What he said. Giving away those abilities for free would unbalance the class and lead is back towards CrazyStupidBroken Wild Shape.
Really the best way to have a druid that changes into distinct animals with powers and extras all there own is to make a hole new class, dumping all of the weather\plant stuff. A shapeshifter class that transforms and gets into melee. The hardest thing to balance would be flying.
Also, there are particular powers that specify wildshape stats (beyond the utilities). There are also feats that help cover this. Like other posters have said, getting any of that stuff for free would severely imbalance the class. If you don't like that but want a balanced alternative, it would have to be a whole class dedicated to it like doneisi suggested, leaving out all the other druidy type things like control over the elements and the world around them.
I started thinking master of many forms, and starting thinking, that would make a cool doppelganger racial paragon path. If WOTC doesn't jump on that one at some point. I think someone should. Of course I just gave a little more thought to that and that's probably a little too much for what paragon paths allow. Still maybe it will spark a more viable idea with someone.
And before it comes up, unless I'm mistaken, the utility powers that let you take on special forms with size changes and flight...do NOT end at end of the encounter completely. Those powers allow you to use wildshape to take a specific form outlined therein and change between that one and others for the duration of the encounter. No where does it say you are forced out of the special form once five minutes (encounter) is up, but after that point if you change out you can't go back. So you can get extended fortress infiltrations in tiny form, or fly all day if you like still.
Also, there are particular powers that specify wildshape stats (beyond the utilities). There are also feats that help cover this. Like other posters have said, getting any of that stuff for free would severely imbalance the class. If you don't like that but want a balanced alternative, it would have to be a whole class dedicated to it like doneisi suggested, leaving out all the other druidy type things like control over the elements and the world around them.
I started thinking master of many forms, and starting thinking, that would make a cool doppelganger racial paragon path. If WOTC doesn't jump on that one at some point. I think someone should. Of course I just gave a little more thought to that and that's probably a little too much for what paragon paths allow. Still maybe it will spark a more viable idea with someone.
What if there was a way to get those shifting powers for free but lose a lot of the other nature powers. Don't lose the nature powers 100% but enough to keep it balanced. There could be two different druid builds, one focuses on wild shape but has some control over nature while the other focuses on nature and does a little wild shape. But master of many forms sounds cool too. I'll still check out the homebrew section.
For example, I could turn into a beast but can only run or fly like it once. I'm looking more into if I can turn into it I should be able to do what it does like normal. I'll check out the homebrew section, thanks for the replies.
Are you comparing the current druid with the Druid of 3rd or 2nd? If you are, then please give me a level where you would like to turn into a bird more than "once a day", and I'll {sblock} a character sheet that does it in 4th Edition.
Give me a specific request on what you want to be able to do, and I can conjour something up, by the rules.
Just for a quick example, at level 2 the Fleet Pursuit power you can only do once per day but if I never come out of the form of that animal I should be able to do it just like the animal would. They use the example of the cheetah so if my druid turns into a cheetah he should have the speed of the cheetah any time he is in that form and not only once/day.
Or do I get to keep using that power all day untill I come out of that form? Which then doesn't make sence because if I don't come out of that form but then get into another fight according to the rules I can't use the power for the second fight.
I'm trying to avoid bringing up other editions, I don't want to start that.
You did:
The druid used to be my favorite class and I couldn't wait for this one to come out but I was very disappointed with it
(emphasis mine)
You're unhappy with one of the changes. I'm trying to identify what change you think you've lost. Because I'm fairly certain that Wild-Shape has lost none of the utility you're looking for.
Or do I get to keep using that power all day untill I come out of that form?
Correct; just like in 2nd edition, you remain in the form you've chosen until you shift out of that form.
Which then doesn't make sense because if I don't come out of that form but then get into another fight according to the rules I can't use the power for the second fight.
You misunderstand. You remain in that form until you shift out of that form. For Skittering Sneak, that means you're useless in combat (a mouse cannot attack) until you shift out of that form.
When using Fleet Pursuit, (and similar powers) you are not required to turn into a cheetah (that is flavour, not mechanics), your ability to shape-shift allows a burst of speed that lasts for a short time.
If you don't have a power that lets you move faster, don't turn into a cheetah.
If you don't have a power that lets you swim, don't turn into a fish.
Seems pretty simple to me.
I still don't understand how if my druid turns into a cheetah (example only) I don't continue to get that burst of speed, why would he suddenly not be able to run as fast? But this is turning into too much of an argument already which I was trying to avoid....
Not looking for an argument, just looking for some ideas.
Any homebrew rules where you get specific powers based on what animal you have wild shaped into? Not just fighting powers but roleplay type stuff like breathing under water, flying, climbing, running, etc...?
Or am I just missing it in the book somewhere?
The druid used to be my favorite class and I couldn't wait for this one to come out but I was very disapointed with it
Not looking for an argument, just looking for some ideas.
Er, yeah. They're in the PHB 2, mostly.
Want to turn into something that flies? Level 6 utility power, as well as some higher level ones. Heck, there's a PP which focuses on exactly that.
Nothing for breathing underwater or climbing, to my knowledge, though it'd be pretty easy - make an appropriately leveled utility power which changes your form and gives you a climb speed (probably level 6 or so). Breathing underwater + swim speed would probably be about the same level.
As for moving faster, there are daily powers which I believe do that.
I still don't understand how if my druid turns into a cheetah (example only) I don't continue to get that burst of speed,
Flaw: turning into a cheetah does not grant an increase to your speed.
I didn't say I didn't bring up other editions, I said I am Trying not to bring up other editions. anyway...
I still don't understand how if my druid turns into a cheetah (example only) I don't continue to get that burst of speed, why would he suddenly not be able to run as fast? But this is turning into too much of an argument already which I was trying to avoid....
See this is the problem, you think turning into the animal means being able to do everything that animal does. I agree but you still shouldn't be able to use use those abilities more than any other class.
Heck as is druids can fly before other classes. they do things other classes cant do because of their animal forms, but in a controlled manner.
As for the cheetah example why do you think one of the druid builds give you a +1 to speed? if you want bonus for specific animal forms there are already feats for that, though most of those are combat advantages maybe you could make some utility feats. Example heroic feat agile monkey form (+5 feat bonus to athletic checks while in beast form) and honestly that's all you need.
Prey is stalked to within 10–30 m (33–98 ft), then chased. This is usually over in less than a minute, and if the cheetah fails to make a catch quickly, it will give up. Running at speeds up to 112 km/h (70 mph) puts a great deal of strain on the cheetah's body. When sprinting, the cheetah's body temperature becomes so high that it would be deadly to continue - this is why the cheetah is often seen resting after it has caught its prey. If it is a hard chase, it sometimes needs to rest for half an hour or more.
Consider yourself not powerful enough until you have powers that describe the desired effect.
That also works. Just because you can assume an animal's outward form doesn't mean you automatically know how to use its abilities. You 'master' a form by taking the appropriate utility power.
The wizard's spells were also cut in that area: no longlasting fly spell of any sort, no waterbreathing, no polymorph (and no polymorph other) or even enlarge (there is this problem with oversized...).
In the toned-down era of 4E such abilities have become (mostly) daily powers.
I'd be interested to hear other's opinions on this change though...
The only homebrew rule we've allowed for my Druid is that wild-shape allows me to travel overland at the same speed as a horse & rider. When we get into an encounter or skill challenge the normal rules go back into effect. Really the only benefit to me was that I didn't have to pay for a horse and instead got to use the money for rituals.
I'd be interested to hear other's opinions on this change though...
See that's a house rule that makes sense. Though I may have made it a ritual myself (a very cheap lvl1 nature ritual though like 10gp component)
Adept Beast Form (Heroic)
Prerequisites:Druid, Wildshape class feature
Benefits:You gain a +2 feat bonus to Athletics, Endurance, Stealth, and Perception Checks while in beast form.
The above feat allows druids to be a bit better at various "animalistic" skills in beast form. It's essentially a Druid version of Jack of All Trades as far as the number of skills it benefits.
River's Child Druid Utility 6
You transform into a small fish and take to the water
Primal Encounter
Free Action Personal
Effect:For the duration of the encounter you may use Wild Shape to transform into a Tiny fish. While in this form you may breath water and have a swim speed equal to your speed and a land speed of 1. While in this form you may not attack or manipulate objects.
Tree Bounder Druid Utility 6
You transform into a small monkey that is at home amongst the trees
Primal, Daily
Free Action Personal
Effect:For the duration of the encounter you may use Wild Shape to transform into a Small monkey. While in this form you have a climb speed equal to your speed. You may manipulate objects but may not attack.
Dextrous Wildshape (Heroic)
Prerequisites:Druid Wildshape, Class Feature Dex 13
Benefit:While you are in a form as a result of a Druid power that states that you may not manipulate objects, you may ignore that restriction but may not wield weapons or implements. Additionally, you gain a +2 feat bonus to initiative in beast form.
This gives your utility forms a bit more utility (allowing you to steal from someone as a raven, for example).
What do you think?
Add +2 Athletics and +2 Endurance to the 'hardy fighter' form. You prefer to take the combat straight between your weapon, and their hit points in the form of damage, and taking less damage in the mean time.
Add +2 Perception and +2 Stealth to the 'finessed striker' form. You can be a were-cat, or the such, and see it as a competition for stealth and surprise attacks, as well as flanking maneuvers.
See it as you will, then the feat would reasonably provide a bonus, to each specific form, just like Alertness served in classic edition 3, and how the bonus feat pairings served in 3.5. Adapt it to the current Druid class, and, voila, 4E.
Adept Beast Form (Heroic)
You're comparing the class restriction to 13 INT restriction. I don't agree, I think it's easier to be a Druid than to have 13 Int. But this could certainly be my prejudice (13 int for JoaT) talking.
River's Child Druid Utility 6
Good utility. Might be an acceptable alternative to Skittering Sneak (you can take a level 3 utility at level 6).
Tree Bounder Druid Utility 6
meh
Dextrous Wildshape (Heroic)
I think it's more important for a Player to convince a DM to House-Rule the situation. Instead of limiting by volume/weight, the Player has to convince the DM it's reasonable for the character to manipulate the object.
I give up some of my options in order to be more specialized. For example, maybe my beast form is a cheetah. I can through the use of encounter powers or utilities get cheetah speed, cheetah leaping, and cheetah attacks, but I lose the ability to turn into birds or other animals.
I guess I just feel like the beast form was watered down so much that it doesn't feel like it matters what animal you are. I would like to change into 1 or 2 animals and have more abilities in that form instead of this generic beast form we have now.
Having said that I do like the druid, and some of what I want, I get by which powers I choose and I turn to a specific animal (a wolf) with all my powers unless it is completely ridiculous (like flying).