The rules about it can be found in PHB p.217
As it happends the only weapon I know of to have this property as of yet, is the shortbow.
I was thinking to apply it to the quarterstaff and all two-handed crossbows aswell.
Please note that this would not alter the shape or size of those weapons and would not change their current damage dice like "Oversized" would.
Thoughts ?
Any other weapons you think should be wieldable by small characters such as the halfling ?
Thanks !
Though I'd think a few weapons could get away with the small property without losing damage dice.
Though I'd think a few weapons could get away with the small property without losing damage dice.
And wich ones would that be ?
My thinking here is that I do not want to muck around with the "weapon size" rules, because that opens up another can of worms. Especially since that scale on p.220 is meant to go only one way, wich is up.
The property "small" on weapons work around that, by just saying "small guys can use this two-handed thingy without problems" and personally I thought the quarterstaff and crossbows where good candidates.
Crossbow not so much. The physics don't work all that well for it.
However the "small" property is worth a damage die. Some weapons are underpowered as-is and the "bump" can be overlooked.
A weapon like a Mace could be small. I don't have the PhB open right now, but I'd say the 2H Spears should get "small" as well, if they don't already.
Quarterstaff yes. If it's not a 6 foot pole anyway.
Yeah this mostly just solves the problem of halfling staff wizards that want to smack stuff in melee occationally, without having to downsize their staff to little Yoda canes with new damage dice and whatnot.
Crossbow not so much. The physics don't work all that well for it.
Explain please ?
As noted the "small" property doesnt make the weapon any smaller...It just allows small people to use the weapon.
It gets a bit humourous when the halfling is toting around a large crossbow (say hello to my little friend....TWANG !) halflings are mostly comical relief characters at my table anyway :P
But beside some minor problems loading it...I dont really see a reason why they couldnt aim and fire it ?
However the "small" property is worth a damage die. Some weapons are underpowered as-is and the "bump" can be overlooked.
I'm not sure what this "worth" and "cost" is all about ?
You say it like I was buying a bonus, when infact I'm removing a restriction.
I don't understand exactly what you and Aluman is getting at.
A weapon like a Mace could be small. I don't have the PhB open right now, but I'd say the 2H Spears should get "small" as well, if they don't already.
No they don't, as I said the only weapon I know of that has the property by RAW is the shortbow.
A mace is rather heavy to swing around I belive, and a spear would be awfully long, and a small person wouldnt have the same weight to put behind it as a medium person.
And if a mace, why not an axe ?
I'm not directly disagreeing with you, but I am curious to why you chose these particular weapons.
But as with crossbows I can imagine it being done, Dwarves are what...A few inches taller ? And dont have a problem using them
Thanks for your input !
Cost: I can dredge up the thread somewhere but stripped down: If you treat every die size and property except for versatile as a +1 all the weapons in a given group have the same value. In other words if you stripped a Longsword and a Mace down (both martial weapons) to a d4 size and +2 proficiency they would have the same number of "+1"s.
crossbow: This has been discussed on one of the boards. Crossbows have a certain amount of required strength to use. Go get a full sized crossbow and give it to a kid about 4 feet tall and ask them to try to use it. It's simply not physicaly designed to work that way. Dwarves are given a pass because they are broad even though they are short. Any normally proportioned small creature would have EXTREME difficulty with a crossbow.
Axes: I could see these as used b a small character. Not 2H axes by any means, but a handaxe (or waraxe) should be fine.
Anyway as a quick:ish recap:
Spears: For Kobold and other historical small creatures who use spears.
Cool, I agree. Though the weapons would be long, they dont seem that heavy, not having the bodymass to use as a pivot point might be an issue with the really long ones, but not enough to disallow them completly I think.
Further Note: I think that "Versatile" weapons shouldn't HAVE to be used 2H by small characters.
I sort of want to agree, but I'm okay with that rule.
Heck I even prefer it to giving the small guys negative STR modifiers etc. That I think the old editions had (I never played 'em though)
I just don't think it's okay to rule out any and all two-handed weapons for them by default, I certainly would not apply this to something like greataxes or mauls though.
Cost: I can dredge up the thread somewhere but stripped down: If you treat every die size and property except for versatile as a +1 all the weapons in a given group have the same value. In other words if you stripped a Longsword and a Mace down (both martial weapons) to a d4 size and +2 proficiency they would have the same number of "+1"s.
Awesome, I didn't know the weapons where that calculated. Good to know if I ever want to create a new one from scratch !
But this calculation is all void with two-handed weapons...They cannot use them at all, period.
The small property would add no higher damage die, no bonus things like reach or high crit, it only removes a restriction placed there by what seems to be an un-related rule.
So I think it could be okay to use in a few cases ?
crossbow: This has been discussed on one of the boards. Crossbows have a certain amount of required strength to use. Go get a full sized crossbow and give it to a kid about 4 feet tall and ask them to try to use it. It's simply not physicaly designed to work that way.
I'll try and dig up a link to that discussion and check it out, I wasnt aware of one.
Still we are talking fantasy here, not historical facts.
It boils down to prefered playingstyle I suppose, but I usually apply hollywood fake physics, not real physics
Even with a real kid from the playground I still dont see a problem when it comes to aiming and shooting the crossbow. Even the recoil should be managable since it would be aimed away from the shooter and absorbed mostly into the "bow-arms", unlike a shotgun that would press on the shooters shoulder.
I never fired a crossbow myself though so I'm not 100% sure.
Loading it though...That I can understand as an issue. Heck some crossbows had cranks and whatnot on them IIRC because even adults had trouble getting them ready.
But again...Hollywood fantasy, it doesnt bother me at all, just like cars exploding in the movies after being shot in the gastank, or people flying backwards when shot in the chest...I can handwave it for the pure hilarity of a halfling with a crossbow almost as big as himself. :D
Anyway, would halfling rogues and rangers become overpowered with this ?
It's a slightly unfair advantage to be small in these few cases, while having the same weapons as the medium people...But as I said, my players mostly use halflings when they want to be a comical relief character, I cant recall a single one that has been played 100% serious. So I'm not that worried about the balance.
Crossbows really physically aren't meant to be used by a 4' tall guy. Arms aren't long enough and what-not.
I would leave them with hand-crossbows. Simply because I can't see it physically possible for a halfling to use a full size xbow.
However your game your rules.
And your feedback IS much appreciated.
I'm not sure what arm-length has to do with using a crossbow
A longbow I can totally understand (And personally find it a little strange Dwarves can use them..) but a medium guy would never be forced to extend his arms to full length when using a crossbow ?
The principal would be the same as using a rifle as far as I can see.
But beyond being a bit bothersome (especially to reload) I dont see why it would be physically impossible ?
When you have short arms you have a harder time holding up a crossbow. You have to extend your arms further, so unless you're well built (dwarf) you probably are going to have trouble using a crossbow from any length of time. Pick up a 5 pound weight and hold it at arms-length for a few minutes and you'll understand what I mean.
Additionally shorter arms have more trouble maneuvering a crossbow, because they have less slack to twist it with.
My arms are each close to 2 1/2 feet long. I'm 5'7".
If I were, say, 4'2" I'd have arms closer to 1 1/2 feet long each. Ever seen a little kid try to use a full-sized rifle? Awkward because it is designed for someone considerably larger than them.
A small character is roughly equivalent in size to maybe a 10 year old, and has relative strength of a teenager. Tougher than they look, but not as tough as a grown man in his mid 20's. (Using man because I'm male, before anyone says anything.)
Now I'd say add a feat for a small character with 18-20 strength allowing them to ignore the downsides of being small for certain weapons. That would cover the need for 2H weapons. Then add small to a couple weapons which make sense (quarterstaff, spear, scythe). This retains a level of realism, and covers the lack of 2H weapons for small characters.
A crossbow, I would imagine, average about a meter, maybe slightly longer, with most of the weight at the front, a modern rifle would be more balanced. Atleast the one I used.
But I would also imagine most combat is either taken to melee or over before the PC's arms start to give out from exaustion. I dont really see them walking around "aiming" their crossbows constantly for several minutes between combat either.
And even if, I would assume they would be kneeling down and using one knee or an object for support just to avoid such exaustion.
Hmmm...There arent really any rules for prolonged combat is there ?
For exaustion and stuff, other than running out of powers....Maybe there's a thought for more houserules
The example of the kid using the rifle, yes it would be akward. But I just don't agree it's physically impossible.
Reloading even more so since it is the hardest part about using crossbows, but altering the method so that you "lift" the string in place rather than lean down and "pulling" it in place, still sounds plausible to me.
Akward as heck...But thats part of what makes it funny.
I did my military service with a very short guy, and he sure looked uncomfortable during target practice :D
Now I'd say add a feat for a small character with 18-20 strength allowing them to ignore the downsides of being small for certain weapons. That would cover the need for 2H weapons. Then add small to a couple weapons which make sense (quarterstaff, spear, scythe). This retains a level of realism, and covers the lack of 2H weapons for small characters.
The bolded part is not a bad idea...I might just do that. But then I wouldnt need to do the second part at all.
The underlined part is what I'm trying to do now, and the scythe is an excellent suggestion !
So we have the longspear, the scythe and the quarterstaff. What else would make sense to apply it to...I'm thinking maybe flail (not the great one) and possibly the spiked chain ?
Might want to nix putting it on the longspear for the simple reason that it's a reach weapon. I didn't have my PhB openm when making the suggestion.
Spiked chain has reach. I'd say that's one of the weapons that the feat would allow you to use. Reach just seems to make the weapon less believable.
Pick two versatile weapons in the military melee group and label them as small.
I meant spear not longspear, no idea what I was thinking when I wrote that..Temporary confusion I suppose. Happends to me with the "morningstar" aswell.
In english its a mace, but in swedish its a flail...Guess I was just tierd.
Yeah flails might be a stretch, they are heavy to carry, and easy to hit yourself in the head with, especially if youre wielding it closer to your head due to short arms.
But once you got the momentum built up, I'd imagine them not needing as much strength as a straight up impact weapon like a mace wich is why I considered them along with the spiked chain.
I'm not sure what you are sugggesting with the feat though ?
Did you mean something along the lines of a feat that places the small property on some weapons for you, if you take it ?
Kobolds have spears, they just have to use them two-handed, or they can use a javelin and a shield.
So all that we are really missing is this:
Shortstaff:
Prof: +2
Damage: 1d6
Group: Staff
Properties: Versatile
There now your halfling can have a usable staff, and everyone else gets a baseball bat. :D
Or if you really want to, keep it at a 1d8 but require a weapon prof feat for it.
Strength of the Mighty.
Ah I see, it's not a bad idea at all.
Problem designing it as a feat is that you have to get the feat to use weapons I sort of feel they should be able to use anyway.
Without costing a feat and without such high strength req.
It's a good idea for weapons that they should not be able to use by default though. Like axes and maces etc.
Yes I have the AV.
Shortstaff
Yeah that works, but its the kind of downsizing I prefere to avoid...But it works.
I can see why a 4' tall munchkin would have to use a 38" sword 2H though.
It's a good idea that could use some polish.