Aquatic Shifter Feats (PEACH) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 marius4 May 08, 2010 21:52:52	HEROIC TIER Truedive Shifter Prerequisite: Shifter Benefit: You can breathe underwater and gain a +3 bonus to Athletics checks to swim. Special: You cannot select this feat if you have the Wavebreak Shifter feat. Wavebreak Shifter Prerequisite: Shifter Benefit: You increase the time you can hold your breath before an Endurance check is required by a number of minutes equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). In addition, you gain a +3 bonus to Athletics and Endurance checks to swim, tread water, or hold your breath. Special: You cannot select this feat if you have the Truedive Shifter feat. Aquatic Predator Prerequisite: Shifter, truedive shifter or wavebreak shifter Benefit: You reduce the attack penalty incurred by fighting underwater with weapons not from the spear and crossbow weapon groups by 1. While you are under the effect of your shifting racial power, roll twice for Athletics check to swim and use the higher result. PARAGON TIER Tiderun Shifting Prerequisite: 11th level, truedive shifter or wavebreak shifter Benefit: While you are under the effect of your shifting racial power, you gain a swim speed equal to your speed and you are considered an aquatic creature for the purpose of resolving attacks in aquatic combat.
#2 rampant May 09, 2010 15:12:41	Why no stacking true-dive and Wave break, honestly I could see making WB a pre-req for TD.
#3 marius4 May 10, 2010 4:28:24	Stacking the two is an interesting idea; I hadn't looked at them that way at all! I was actually thinking along the lines of making rules that work for shifters of all different aquatic lineages... weresharks, weredolphins, werecrocodiles, etc. Some of those base creatures would breathe underwater while others wouldn't, hence the two separate feats. Plus I thought waterbreathing, though an 11th-level ritual, wasn't uber enough to stagger over mutliple feats. Additionally, I did consider that "breathe underwater" could be handwaived as "holding your breath for a long time," but I wasn't sure how that would come off to players...? In the beginning I was actually trying to build an entirely new shifter "subrace", but it kept looking like the longtooth or razorclaw plus waterbreathing , so at someone's suggestion I tried feats.
#4 pluisjen May 10, 2010 4:35:12	Since Waterbreathing is an 11th level ritual, I'd bump the Truedive feat to Paragon. And yeah, why would you pick a feat that lets you hold your breath longer if you can instead take one that lets you breath underwater? It's not something that comes up a lot, and if you base it on Wisdom modifier at the least I'd give it a Wisdom 13 pre-req instead of a "minimum 1" clause. Aquatic Predator isn't very useful; if you fight and hunt underwater you're going to be using a Spear anyway so giving a bonus to using spears would make more sense. Either make them take no penalty or bump the power of spears underwater. Also, not to make your start all over again but personally, I would've made this a Paragon path. "Discovering your heritage" and all that.
#5 marius4 May 10, 2010 23:28:12	Since Waterbreathing is an 11th level ritual, I'd bump the Truedive feat to Paragon. And yeah, why would you pick a feat that lets you hold your breath longer if you can instead take one that lets you breath underwater? Obviously you didn't see the juicy +3 bonus to water treading and breath holding! Or...maybe that's not so juicy. Regarding water breathing, it is also a basic racial ability right from 1st level for water genasi. I kinda want the effect of 3.x racial progressions via 4e feats...a touch more racial ability at the cost of a feat or two (at any level). However, I'm unsure about the relative power levels of abilities like water breathing or swim bonuses, for example. It's not something that comes up a lot, and if you base it on Wisdom modifier at the least I'd give it a Wisdom 13 pre-req instead of a "minimum 1" clause. Definitely more elegant. Thanks for the tip. Aquatic Predator isn't very useful; if you fight and hunt underwater you're going to be using a Spear anyway so giving a bonus to using spears would make more sense. Either make them take no penalty or bump the power of spears underwater. Also, not to make your start all over again but personally, I would've made this a Paragon path. "Discovering your heritage" and all that. No problem. Starting over is just a part of the process. I think it follows evisceration! ;) (Just kidding.) I appreciate the feedback; it shows where things are lacking. Seems the feats need to offer more. As for a PP like above, certainly a great idea but the first goal is to have something available from 1st level that says "aquatic shifter." Removing the -2 completely is a step toward making that idea more interesting. Looks like it's back to the drawing board!

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

marius4

May 08, 2010 21:52:52

HEROIC TIER

Truedive Shifter
Prerequisite: Shifter
Benefit: You can breathe underwater and gain a +3 bonus to Athletics checks to swim.
Special: You cannot select this feat if you have the Wavebreak Shifter feat.

Wavebreak Shifter
Prerequisite: Shifter
Benefit: You increase the time you can hold your breath before an Endurance check is required by a number of minutes equal to your Wisdom modifier (minimum 1). In addition, you gain a +3 bonus to Athletics and Endurance checks to swim, tread water, or hold your breath.
Special: You cannot select this feat if you have the Truedive Shifter feat.

Aquatic Predator
Prerequisite: Shifter, truedive shifter or wavebreak shifter
Benefit: You reduce the attack penalty incurred by fighting underwater with weapons not from the spear and crossbow weapon groups by 1.
While you are under the effect of your shifting racial power, roll twice for Athletics check to swim and use the higher result.

PARAGON TIER

Tiderun Shifting
Prerequisite: 11th level, truedive shifter or wavebreak shifter
Benefit: While you are under the effect of your shifting racial power, you gain a swim speed equal to your speed and you are considered an aquatic creature for the purpose of resolving attacks in aquatic combat.

rampant

May 09, 2010 15:12:41

Why no stacking true-dive and Wave break, honestly I could see making WB a pre-req for TD.

marius4

May 10, 2010 4:28:24

Stacking the two is an interesting idea; I hadn't looked at them that way at all!

I was actually thinking along the lines of making rules that work for shifters of all different aquatic lineages... weresharks, weredolphins, werecrocodiles, etc. Some of those base creatures would breathe underwater while others wouldn't, hence the two separate feats. Plus I thought waterbreathing, though an 11th-level ritual, wasn't uber enough to stagger over mutliple feats.

Additionally,

I did consider that "breathe underwater" could be handwaived as "holding your breath for a long time," but I wasn't sure how that would come off to players...? In the beginning I was actually trying to build an entirely new shifter "subrace", but it kept looking like the longtooth or razorclaw plus waterbreathing

, so at someone's suggestion I tried feats.

pluisjen

May 10, 2010 4:35:12

Since Waterbreathing is an 11th level ritual, I'd bump the Truedive feat to Paragon. And yeah, why would you pick a feat that lets you hold your breath longer if you can instead take one that lets you breath underwater?

It's not something that comes up a lot, and if you base it on Wisdom modifier at the least I'd give it a Wisdom 13 pre-req instead of a "minimum 1" clause.

Aquatic Predator isn't very useful; if you fight and hunt underwater you're going to be using a Spear anyway so giving a bonus to using spears would make more sense. Either make them take no penalty or bump the power of spears underwater.

Also, not to make your start all over again but personally, I would've made this a Paragon path.

"Discovering your heritage" and all that.

marius4

May 10, 2010 23:28:12

Since Waterbreathing is an 11th level ritual, I'd bump the Truedive feat to Paragon. And yeah, why would you pick a feat that lets you hold your breath longer if you can instead take one that lets you breath underwater?

Obviously you didn't see the juicy +3 bonus to water treading and breath holding!

Or...maybe that's not so juicy.

Regarding water breathing, it is also a basic racial ability right from 1st level for water genasi. I kinda want the effect of 3.x racial progressions via 4e feats...a touch more racial ability at the cost of a feat or two (at any level). However, I'm unsure about the relative power levels of abilities like water breathing or swim bonuses, for example.

It's not something that comes up a lot, and if you base it on Wisdom modifier at the least I'd give it a Wisdom 13 pre-req instead of a "minimum 1" clause.

Definitely more elegant. Thanks for the tip.

Aquatic Predator isn't very useful; if you fight and hunt underwater you're going to be using a Spear anyway so giving a bonus to using spears would make more sense. Either make them take no penalty or bump the power of spears underwater.

Also, not to make your start all over again but personally, I would've made this a Paragon path.
"Discovering your heritage" and all that.

No problem. Starting over is just a part of the process. I think it follows evisceration! ;) (Just kidding.) I appreciate the feedback; it shows where things are lacking. Seems the feats need to offer more.

As for a PP like above, certainly a great idea but the first goal is to have something available from 1st level that says "aquatic shifter." Removing the -2 completely is a step toward making that idea more interesting. Looks like it's back to the drawing board!