Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 axleleft Jan 26, 2009 23:34:05	The weapon wielding arcane user received some nice attention with the Swordmage, but it's a defender. As one who appreciated the striker aspects of the Duskblade class I thought I'd take a crack at designing a 4 ed version of the it - or at least something similar as I'm aiming to stay away from specific thematics and instead aim for more generic into which those themes could be plugged; i.e., this class could be a Duskblade but just easily a Bladesinger -Oriental Adventures style or classic style- or whatever fits in a given campaign setting. I started by culling ideas from Duskblade. The principle concept was channeling spells into the weapon and I thought that would be a neat mechanic. I figured casting would occur as part of an attack and would have an effect which would improve the next power. I realized the class would need more options for build types and this meant more versatility for powers. I came up with four basic power groups: Mobility - short range teleport/attack combinations Buff - attacks with effects to make next attack better Surge - attacks which have unfettered arcane power Weapon - attacks which improve your weapon I figured Mobility, Buff, and Surge would be good for encounters and few Dailies but Weapon would make up most of them - they'd kind of be like Barbarian rage. You make an attack and gain an effect for the rest of the encouunter. These would be based on the old weapon transmutation spells - I imagine a reworked Black Blade of Disaster would be a nice high level power while Flame Blade or whatever would be a good low level power. For the attacks, I wanted it to be kind of like Cleric in that you could do the Cha based options or do the Str with Cha back up except switch Int in for Cha. I didn't follow through on that as I felt that Int higher than Str would help distinguish the class from martial characters. Instead I went for a class feature which would make the class diverge into "instant gratification" versus "foresight." Damage was a bit trickier. I wanted Surges to be based on Cha - strength of will exerted for a quicker boost rather than the prepared motions of a spell. Buffs would be Int based all the way. Mobility I can't really decide. I'd like Cha to play a roll in it. One thing I can't make up my mind on is combined sword/spell attacks, for example stabbing and then point blank fire orb to the face. They'd probably be higher power powers (erk - bad wording) as they'd involve secondary attacks and/or close blasts or bursts. This goes hand in hand with an idea that these attacks would require a free hand - trying to keep the class to 1-handed or versatile weapons as to keep damage from becoming ridiculous. Utilities would be a mix of Int and Cha based depending on action type. Minor action utilities would be more Cha based immediate reactions and interrupts while Int based ones would be more minor/standard action with a longer lasting impact. Anyway, here's what I have so far: Class Features Arcane Flourish: once per encounter use a minor action to gain the effect of an attack power without using it. The attack power is expended. Warrior-Mage: once per day you may add your Str bonus to an Int based check or your Int bonus to a Str based check. Generic Class Types: Choose one of these sub-archetypes: Int based: Gain +1 to AC and Reflex while under an effect from one of your powers. Str based: Add your Str modifier to damage rolls to powers with the Rattling keyword. Each subclass would also have benefits with certain powers, ala Rogue. Int would get bonuses for Buffs (2+Int bonus extra instead of just +2 for example). The Str based power may seem more powerful but I wanted it to be a nice enough to compete with one based off the classes primary trait. Having it work with Intimidate powers I think will help. Any suggestions on this aspect of the class design (the whole Int vs Str thing, etc. - I can't shake the feeling that Str option would be ignored for just pumping Int and Cha but I'm loathe to have powers based on Str) would be greatly appreciated. Arcane Flourish is essentially lifted directly from Duskblade and allows for a quick pre-first strike buff. Skills Automatic: Arcana Trainable, pick 3: History, Religion, Athletics, Acrobatics, Endurance, Insight, Intimidate, Nature, Diplomacy, Dungeoneering A pretty basic mix of physical and mental disciplines. Should allow the full gamut of brutal power heavies to high minded intellectuals. Proficiencies Cloth, Leather Armor Simple Weapons, Heavy Blades, Light Blades Classic options. I may have the subclass option you choose expand or straight up determine what weapons beyond simple the character is proficient in. Or perhaps just choose one? HP, Healing Surges, etc. would be just like Rogue. At-Will Powers Force Edge: Melee Weapon, Force, Int vs AC, Hit: 1[W]+Int mod+Cha mod force damage True Strike: Melee Weapon, Special: if used with Arcane Flourish only gives +1 power bonus instead of +2, Int vs AC, Hit: 1[W] damage, Effect: Attacks gain +2 power bonus to attack rolls until end of next turn. Flare Up: Melee Weapon, Fire, Intimidating, Int vs Ref, Hit: 1[W]+Cha fire Bamf (working title): Teleport, Special: slide up to 2 squares total either before or after the attack, Int vs AC, Hit: 1[W]+Int damage I have a few ideas for encounter, utility, and daily powers but I'd like to get feed back on the core class concept before continuing. In the end, I'd like to have a working 30 level class with some paragon path options. Constructive criticism, differing view on what a melee arcane archetype would be, any useful input, all greatly appreciated. Multiple points of view, in my experience, lead to better results for these sorts of things. Thanks in advance.
#2 wyld_mutation Jan 30, 2009 22:28:21	First-off... Reading this gave me ideas for my own Duskblade currently a WIP on these very forums. From here... You can check out my Duskblade as a Weapon-based Melee Striker. You can also see a non-weapon-based Striker in the form of the Fury Sorceror in my Sig. Continuing forward; A solid set of ideas, if a bit too "thought out" for my tastes. If you intend to "push" towards a weapon-user that attacks with intelligence you've made the right decisions for armor. Personally I found that using strength makes the archetype easier by giving more "weapon options" but I also took it in a fairly different direction you could say. For the interaction of powers... You need maybe a bit more elaboration. Actually fully-formatted powers would be better. Edit: Adding to Ability Modifiers to one attack as an at-will is... Well interesting.
#3 axleleft Jan 31, 2009 20:40:03	Look forward to a more elaborated version in the next day or so (levels 1-3 hopefully) with better formatting (huzzah DMTools). I took a look at your class design for Duskblade and I liked it alot - reminded me of some of the ideas I had originally (I love how you worked Channel with the encounter powers). You may see some class features, ahem, borrowed... Making the powers strength, hmm, maybe have the two subclasses be: 1) Powers work off of Int, light armor prof, simple weapon prof, choose one military weapon for prof. A more erudite [Class Name here]. 2) Powers work off Str, medium armor prof, simple weapon prof, choose two military profs or one superior weapon prof. A more "fighter-esque" [Class Name here]. Effects and bonus damage could then work off of Charisma and defensive utilities would be Dex or Con (movement avoids versus DR/+Def buffs) so the break down becomes Primary: Intelligence or Strength Secondary: Charisma Tertiary: Dexterity or Constitution
#4 wyld_mutation Feb 01, 2009 16:04:28	I'd make two "classes" with onhe power pool there. Just because of the variability. Glad you liked the Duskblade, I intend to keep going when I can get past my current block.
#5 axleleft Feb 01, 2009 16:57:02	Spell Sword "You haven't seen real power yet." Class Traits Role: Striker. Your attacks flow together as you build up magical energies to unleash in blinding displays of power. You do best when teamed with a defender or controller who can buy you the most time to perform a combination strike. Source: Arcane. Your attacks depend on channeling arcance energies into your blade. Key Abilities: Intelligence, Strength, Charisma, Dexterity, Constitution Armor Proficiencies: Cloth Armor, Leather Armor; Light Shield Weapon Proficiencies: Simple Melee plus a single military melee weapon of your choice. Bonus to Defense: +1 Fortitude, +1 Will Hit Points at 1st Level: 12 + Constitution score Hit Points per Level Gained: 5 Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier Trained Skills: Arcana plus 3 others. From the class skills list below, choose 3 more trained skills at 1st level. Class Skills: Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Dungeoneering (Wis), Endurance (Con), History (Int), Intimidate (Cha) Build Options: Foresight Style, Brash Style Class Features: Arcane Flourish, Place Holder, Warrior-Mage Spell-Swords are warrior-mages trained in an ancient style of personal combat. Spell-Swords channel the power that permeates the universe through their blades. The blend of physical prowess, a keen mind, and magic make Spell-Swords extremely dangerous. How you came to learn the art of melding magic and martial abilities would have been a trial in itself as you pursued two separate paths and brought them together through hard work and sheer willed perseverance. Or perhaps the blade comes naturally to you and you've augmented talent with learned power. No matter how you came to possess you unusual abilities you know that tempered steel is stronger than iron and carbon. Foresight Style You like powers with effects that help you build up to a powerful finishing strike. Your attacks use Intelligence, so keep that your highest ability score. Charisma provides extra damage. Dexterity is useful for mobility powers. Suggested Feat: Suggested Skills: Suggested At-Will Power: Suggested Encounter Power: Suggested Daily Power: Brash Style You are not subtle - you want to deal damage and that is that. Strength should be your primary stat for use with attack powers. Charisma is useful for augmenting damage. Constitution is useful for defensive powers. Suggested Feat: Suggested Skills: Suggested At-Will Power: Suggested Encounter Power: Suggested Daily Power: Spell Sword Class Features Every Spell Sword shares these class features. Arcane Flourish Once per encounter you may use a minor action to gain the effect of an attack power without using it. Place Holder Subclasses - one is more scholar and the other is more muscle. Erudite You may use your Intelligence modifier for determing your attack roll bonus with attack powers. Warblade You may use your Strength modifier to determine your bonus to attack rolls for attack powers. You gain hide and chain armor proficiency and either proficiency with an additional military weapon or a superior weapon. Warrior-Mage A Spell Sword may use wands, rods, and quarter staffs but does not gain the implement bonus (unless using the quarter staff as a weapon). You may treat an implement held in your off-hand as a weapon for the purpose of Two Weapon Fighting and Two Weapon Defense. Once per day as a free action the Spell Sword may add the implement's bonus to Spell Sword and basic attack damage rolls; this effect lasts until the end of the Spell Sword's next turn. Spell Sword Powers At-Will Powers True Strike Spell Sword 1 You attack while imbuing your weapon with a degree a foresight. It twitches as it begins to guide your hand. _______________________ At-Will ✦ Arcane, Melee Action Melee Prerequisites: Melee Weapon, Free hand or Implement Target: One creature _______________________ Hit: 1[W] damage Effect: You gain a +2 power bonus to attack rolls until the end of your next turn. Special: If used with Arcane Flourish you only gain a +1 power bonus to attacks until your next turn. Special: Increase damage to 2[W] at 21st level. Blink Attack Spell Sword Attack 1 You take blink between dimensions to get close to the enemy and then blink away after attacking. _______________________ At-Will ✦ Arcane, Melee, Teleportation Standard Action Melee Prerequisites: Melee weapon Target: One creature _______________________ Hit: 1[W]+Strength modifier or Intelligence modifier Special: You may slide up to a total number of squares equal to your Charisma modifier in any combination before and after attacking. Special: Increase damage to 2[W]+Strength or Intelligence modifier at 21st level. Flare Up Spell Sword Attack 1 Your blade glows red as you swing and flames burst violently forth on contact with the enemy. _______________________ At-Will ✦ Arcane, Weapon, Fire, Rattling Standard Action Melee Requirements: Melee Weapon Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. AC _______________________ Hit: 1[W]+Charisma modifier Fire damage. Special: Increase damage to 2[W]+Charisma modifier at 21st level. Force Edge Spell Sword Attack 1 You augment your attack by lining your weapon with pure force. _______________________ At-Will ✦ Arcane, Melee, Force Standard Action Melee Requirements: Melee Weapon Target: One creature Attack: Strength vs. AC or Intelligence vs. AC _______________________ Hit: 1[W]+Strength or Intelligence modifier+Charisma modifier Force damage. Special: Increase damage to 2[W]+Strength or Intelligence modifier+Charisma modifier at 21st level.
#6 axleleft Feb 05, 2009 23:39:46	I'm thinking two defensive utilities (one mobile reaction and the other a temp HP), a skill buff utility, and have no clue for number 4. Any ideas?
#7 wyld_mutation Feb 10, 2009 16:58:25	Hmmm... Something to feel class-connected. NBot sure what though. You need to specify exactly which implements they can use. Believe me that can go a long way to giving the class a specific feel. As for exactly how "Warrior Mage" works... "You may treat an implement held in your off-hand as a weapon for the purpose of TwF and TwD." That's all it needs to say, followed by "Once per encounter, as a free action, you may grant your weapon Brutal with a value equal to your Implement's Enhancement bonus." Of course that effect is HUGELY powerful. At +4 and higher many 1H weapons deal FULL (or nearly full) damage for one attack. Even if the brutal is 1/2 of the Enhancement a +6 weapon guarantees full damage from a dagger. You should definitely rethink the effect.
#8 aluman Feb 10, 2009 17:03:44	Yeahhh, 1d8 brutal 6 vorpal long sword would = win.
#9 axleleft Feb 11, 2009 7:52:28	Thanks for the feedback. You're right, that is very powerful and never even occurred to me. I'll make the appropriate edits later tonight.
#10 axleleft Feb 11, 2009 18:38:39	Altered Warrior-Mage and added level 2 utilities. Started working on level 3 powers. Any ideas for class feats?