Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 romulus_lonewolf Sep 10, 2008 6:39:00	Here's a thought I was considering for Arcane Power classes, inspired in part by a similar rule from GURPS Magic. Arcane power is based on the manipulation of ambient magical energies, which Arcana specialists refer to as "Mana". Now, while ambient Mana tend to stay at a certain level in most of the world and planes, there are some regions which have variant levels, which affect spellcasters and arcane magic items in the following way: No Mana: In a area of No Mana, Arcane power will not function; arcane spellcasters are unable to use spells, nor can arcane magic items be activated. Low Mana: In an area of No Mana, Arcane spells will function, but with great difficulty. At-Will spells become Encounter spells, Encounter spells become Daily spells, and Daily spells cannot be cast. High Mana: In an area of High Mana, Arcane spellcasters can more easily tap into these energies, making casting easier. Encounter spells become At-Will spells, and Daily spells become Encounter spells. Game use: Mana Levels become a subtype of terrain which can be used during encounters, giving arcane spellcasters a new set of tactical options.
#2 wyld_mutation Sep 10, 2008 7:53:48	Uhhhh... High mana is too good. It completely throws off the game's balance. That and the lower mana levels unduly penalize arcane casters.
#3 aluman Sep 10, 2008 17:08:42	Here's a thought I was considering for Arcane Power classes, inspired in part by a similar rule from GURPS Magic. Arcane power is based on the manipulation of ambient magical energies, which Arcana specialists refer to as "Mana". Now, while ambient Mana tend to stay at a certain level in most of the world and planes, there are some regions which have variant levels, which affect spellcasters and arcane magic items in the following way: No Mana: In a area of No Mana, Arcane power will not function; arcane spellcasters are unable to use spells, nor can arcane magic items be activated. Low Mana: In an area of No Mana, Arcane spells will function, but with great difficulty. At-Will spells become Encounter spells, Encounter spells become Daily spells, and Daily spells cannot be cast. High Mana: In an area of High Mana, Arcane spellcasters can more easily tap into these energies, making casting easier. Encounter spells become At-Will spells, and Daily spells become Encounter spells. Game use: Mana Levels become a subtype of terrain which can be used during encounters, giving arcane spellcasters a new set of tactical options. Actually what it does is give the DM a way to punish arcane power source. Much like Dead/Wild magic zones in earlier editions (where it was needed to prevent the wizard from waving a hand and ending a campaign).
#4 Crimson_Concerto Sep 10, 2008 17:41:22	This is a horrible idea. There's isn't supposed to be any mechanical repercussions directly tied to the power source you happen to employ. It doesn't add anything good to the game, and it's not fun. Furthermore, it causes too many confusions. What happens if I use a would-be encounter power in a low-mana zone and thus cast it as a daily but then I leave the zone? Can I not use the encounter power anymore that day? If I can, then what if I exit and then re-enter the area during another combat? Can I use it as a daily again? What happens if I'm in an area of high mana and cast a would-be encounter spell as though it were at-will and then I leave the area? Have I expended it for the encounter or not? What if I cast an encounter power and then go into the area? Do I regain the power? What about if I cast a daily power and then enter an area of high magic? Have I expended the encounter or daily power or not? Sorry, but this is a horrible idea and not very well thought out.
#5 Lord_Ventnor Sep 10, 2008 18:38:10	It's an interesting idea, but at times it would be like you're punishing a player just because they wanted to play a Wizard or Warlock. One of 4E's main design goals was to make all classes feel like they can do something useful in combat, and if you have your Wizard bored out of his mind in the back of the arena, twiddling his thumbs because he can't cast so much as a magic missile, then you're violating that central tenant.
#6 aluman Sep 10, 2008 18:43:33	If you want a slightly less problematic way of simulating this, why not low Mana - Arcane power sources have a -1 terrain penalty to attacks High mana - Non arcane power sources have a -1 terrain penalty to attacks. This way its a variation of 5% which means it will be noticable, yet at the same time not determintal to fun.
#7 romulus_lonewolf Sep 10, 2008 19:02:32	I certainly don't want to punish Arcane spellcasters.. That's one of the reasons I included High Mana zones as a counterpart to Low Mana zones. I also had a similar idea for Divine Power, with Sanctity levels representing areas of perticular Divine influence, where one Deity's clerics gets benefits, while the clerics of opposite deities don't. But fine, I guess my original idea is a bit overpowered. Any suggestions on how to turn it down a notch, while keeping the original concept?
#8 AaronOfBarbaria Sep 10, 2008 19:15:11	Any suggestions on how to turn it down a notch, while keeping the original concept? Use fluff for low mana areas, or only adjust things that already are somewhat punitive - make rituals take longer. That way there is the campaign element of mana being different in different places, without it being a punishment to Arcane classes. For High mana areas, a small bonus is more than enough. A +1 to hit or a +1 to damage, or even just an increased crit range to 19-20 would be some decent but not inherently overpowered ideas.
#9 Crimson_Concerto Sep 10, 2008 19:26:30	Giving any kind of random bonus or penalty is just weird and still a horrible idea. I would really suggest just dropping the concept altogether. Really, why do you even want this? Even at a reduced penalty, all it does is give the DM permission to randomly impose a -1 penalty whenever he feels like making the encounter a bit tougher. Also, you've failed to address martial characters at all. The only way this concept would be at all balanced would be to say there is some kind of zone that affects everybody the exact same way...
#10 romulus_lonewolf Sep 10, 2008 19:52:31	Well, the thing about Martial power is that it doesn't appear to come from an outside source like Arcane or Divine power. Although I suppose something like "Area of Peace" vs "Area of War" might work, either draining away a warrior's fighting spirit or emboldering them. As for why I thought of this idea in the first place, is because the concept of "Fonts of Magical Power", "Shrines of Holy Power" and such are common enough within Fantasy fiction, that I think D&D should have rules for something similar. Besides, I can see a lot of potential battle scenarios with this. Suppose the battlemap includes a Mana font in a spot that's right between the PCs and a evenly matched group of Hobgoblins that includes a Warcaster. One of the PC's challenges for this fight is taking control of the Mana font to use it's power to turn the tide of the battle to their side.
#11 rikiji Sep 10, 2008 20:03:33	Having encounter areas that give minor benefits or penalties to specific power sources is an interesting idea. As long as it can be applied fairly and as long as you allow all characters to remain viable I don't see it as unbalancing - you'd be designing encounters around the area anyways.
#12 jaxgaret Sep 11, 2008 20:00:17	But fine, I guess my original idea is a bit overpowered. Any suggestions on how to turn it down a notch, while keeping the original concept? In High Mana areas, a caster can use each Encounter power twice per encounter. In Low Mana areas, a caster cannot use their Daily powers. That's a bit less game-changing. Advice: never use Dead Mana zones.
#13 rikiji Sep 11, 2008 20:23:18	Another idea would be to look at creatures with Auras in the MM. An aura is, after all, just a portable zone with special conditions attached.