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Arcane Smith

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
merdok
Jul 15, 2008 22:17:28 I have a second level warforged Wizard (dont ask me what build i use because I couldnt tell you . Never picked one only my spells)
I am looking to make him a normal mage but his background makes him very intrested in creating things because he learned as much from the dwarves who created him as from the Dragonborn who had him created. Because of this I looked for a ritual,skill,or feat to create normal mundane items but I never found anything so I thought up my own ritual . what I am asking of you guys is to tell me how bad i got the ballence or if this even belongs as a ritual because non casters would not be able to use it . Anything you have to say about it would help alot so here it is.

Arcane Creation…
So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment.
Level: 2
Category: Creation
Time: Varies by size
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: Special
Market Price: 200 gp
Key Skill: Arcana
You use your arcane skill and reagents to transform mundane materials into basic items.
Cost of components are one half the item cost plus cost of reagents depending on the weight of the Item
Reagent cost by size
0-5:10gp Time:30 min
6-10:20gp Time:45 min
11-16:40gp Time:1 hour
17-20:50gp Time:1 hour 30 min
21+:ad 10GP per every 5 lbs Time:30 min per every 5 pounds

Also, ideas for non magical non magic item creation ?
#2
splarg
Jul 16, 2008 2:08:53 I believe I've seen this suggested somewhere else when discussing the artificer. It might be easier for book keeping to make the cost the same as the cost of the mundane item or perhaps a multiple of the item if you want it to cost a bit more (x1.5 or x2). I'd still keep a scaling casting time similar to that which you've got but based only on cost. Just my thoughts on it.

Also, ideas for non magical non magic item creation ?

Do you mean something like the old crafting rules? Maybe you could tie existing skills in with crafting.

Thievery = traps, locks, thief equipment
Nature = natural poisons
Arcana = alchemical products
Dungeoneering = stonework, castle construction.

Something like that might do the trick otherwise just make it an ability check tied to whichever ability you think appropriate and give bonuses based on the characters background. (Your warforged wizard might gain a bonus with stone and metal work but perhaps not with leathercrafting or woodworking for instance)
#3
merdok
Jul 16, 2008 3:59:18
I believe I've seen this suggested somewhere else when discussing the artificer. It might be easier for book keeping to make the cost the same as the cost of the mundane item or perhaps a multiple of the item if you want it to cost a bit more (x1.5 or x2). I'd still keep a scaling casting time similar to that which you've got but based only on cost. Just my thoughts on it.

Do you mean something like the old crafting rules? Maybe you could tie existing skills in with crafting.

Thievery = traps, locks, thief equipment
Nature = natural poisons
Arcana = alchemical products
Dungeoneering = stonework, castle construction.

Something like that might do the trick otherwise just make it an ability check tied to whichever ability you think appropriate and give bonuses based on the characters background. (Your warforged wizard might gain a bonus with stone and metal work but perhaps not with leathercrafting or woodworking for instance)

hmmm an intersting idea about the cost. That dose make alot more sense than what I have. And the casting time well I think it works to do that by weight because basicly the heavyer it is the more time it will take to transmute. But I will take your words into concideration .

now with the nonmagical idea you had. I dont like the old system because well 4th edition dosent lend itself to it. The skills I wouldnt belive are strong enough on there own because you would still be paying for materials and such. That and adventurers really have no reasion to learn smithing when they make the kind of money that they do. This whole idea I only put fourth as a rp flavoring for my character (though the things he creates will be very real) I am sure the artificer when eberron and the full artificer comes out all of that will be cleared up . Even when the new treasure book comes out it could be but this is just something that I want to put in his past that he learned to make him a more unique character (as if a warforged needs something to make them unique)

Thanks for the feedback though
#4
merdok
Jul 16, 2008 12:25:55 Here is a second draft of my ritual based on the above sugestion

Arcane Creation…
So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment.
Level: 2
Category: Creation
Time: 10 min per 10 foot cube
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: Special
Market Price: 2000 gp
Key Skill: Arcana
Through the use of arcane reagents and mundane materials you can create aan item that fits inside of a 10 foot cube.The componet cost is 75% the items normal cost . If the item cost is not on any list then the DM decides the cost of the ritual

and a second virsion of this based on the 3.5 Fabricate spell found in page 229 of the 3.5 phb

Arcane Creation…
So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment.
Level: 2
Category: Creation
Time: 20 min per 2 squares
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: Special
Market Price: 200 gp
Key Skill: Arcana
You confert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. the cost of this material is 3 quarters the cost of the item to be created. As for casting time for each 2 squares that the final product would take up 20 min is requried . This time is not reduced for items that only take up one square or less. Sucessfull Arcana cast must be made with the DC to determine the quallity of the item
DC20:High quallity
DC15:Avrage
DC10: Poor
DC5 or below :Fail to produce the intended item.
Apon faliure you lose a quarter of the materials you started with .
The final product must be the same basic mass as the materials you started with (IE. you can not turn a twig into a whole house cannot turn an entire forest into a hand held figureine.)

tel me what you think
#5
doomsought
Jul 16, 2008 13:47:44
Arcane Creation…
So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment.
Level: 2
Category: Creation
Time: 20 min per 2 squares
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: Special
Market Price: 200 gp
Key Skill: Arcana
You confert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. the cost of this material is 3 quarters the cost of the item to be created. As for casting time for each 2 squares that the final product would take up 20 min is requried . This time is not reduced for items that only take up one square or less. Sucessfull Arcana cast must be made with the DC to determine the quallity of the item
DC20:High quallity
DC15:Avrage
DC10: Poor
DC5 or below :Fail to produce the intended item.
Apon faliure you lose a quarter of the materials you started with .
The final product must be the same basic mass as the materials you started with (IE. you can not turn a twig into a whole house cannot turn an entire forest into a hand held figureine.)

this is the most destructive spell ever, you can use it to destroy a planet. I'm very happy with it.

Sucked into a microscopic black hole

You will need: a microscopic black hole.

Note that black holes are not eternal, they evaporate due to Hawking radiation. For your average black hole this takes an unimaginable amount of time, but for really small ones it could happen almost instantaneously, as evaporation time is dependent on mass. Therefore your microscopic black hole must have greater than a certain threshold mass, roughly equal to the mass of Mount Everest.

Creating a microscopic black hole is tricky, since one needs a reasonable amount of neutronium, but may possibly be achievable by jamming large numbers of atomic nuclei together until they stick. This is left as an exercise to the reader.

Method: simply place your black hole on the surface of the Earth and wait. Black holes are of such high density that they pass through ordinary matter like a stone through the air. The black hole will plummet through the ground, eating its way to the centre of the Earth and all the way through to the other side: then, it'll oscillate back, over and over like a matter-absorbing pendulum. Eventually it will come to rest at the core, having absorbed enough matter to slow it down. Then you just need to wait, while it sits and consumes matter until the whole Earth is gone.

Earth's final resting place: a singularity with a radius of about nine millimetres, which will then proceed to happily orbit the Sun as normal.

Feasibility rating: 3/10. Highly, highly unlikely. But not impossible.

Comments: Getting closer!

Source: The Dark Side Of The Sun, by Terry Pratchett. It is true that the microscopic black hole idea is an age-old science fiction mainstay which predates Pratchett by a long time, he was my original source for the idea, so that's what I'm putting.

So how much does a black hole cost?
Once we got it only about 20 min casting time to crush the mountain.
#6
merdok
Jul 16, 2008 13:54:08 Ha ha ha intresting idea but how would you colide newcli and know what a blackhole is ? how would you even see the mollicule . As my dm would say "you are reaching for stars without yoru gloves on agin"
#7
doomsought
Jul 16, 2008 15:41:38 just about every method of game breaking is meta-game, compare to the locate city bomb... but scrying into other (our) universes can get you there...
#8
merdok
Jul 16, 2008 15:45:04 Not sure what you are getting at here. could you clerify ?

what i think you are saying that anything can be used to break the game. this is true in this case it is up to the DM to say "no you cannot do that because X" unless a diffrent wording for the discription itself can be agreed apon. I was asking if it is broken as in maybe overpowerd for a lvl 2 char
or the time to short or the price to low when compaired to the rest of the game

things like that
#9
doomsought
Jul 16, 2008 17:10:44 no, I'm saying all the methods of game breaking involve meta-gaming.
#10
merdok
Jul 17, 2008 0:40:14 Well that is very true....shrugs
#11
splarg
Jul 17, 2008 20:43:08
Here is a second draft of my ritual based on the above sugestion

Arcane Creation…
So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment.
Level: 2
Category: Creation
Time: 10 min per 10 foot cube
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: Special
Market Price: 2000 gp
Key Skill: Arcana
Through the use of arcane reagents and mundane materials you can create aan item that fits inside of a 10 foot cube.The componet cost is 75% the items normal cost . If the item cost is not on any list then the DM decides the cost of the ritual

and a second virsion of this based on the 3.5 Fabricate spell found in page 229 of the 3.5 phb

Arcane Creation…
So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment.
Level: 2
Category: Creation
Time: 20 min per 2 squares
Duration: Permanent
Component Cost: Special
Market Price: 200 gp
Key Skill: Arcana
You confert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. the cost of this material is 3 quarters the cost of the item to be created. As for casting time for each 2 squares that the final product would take up 20 min is requried . This time is not reduced for items that only take up one square or less. Sucessfull Arcana cast must be made with the DC to determine the quallity of the item
DC20:High quallity
DC15:Avrage
DC10: Poor
DC5 or below :Fail to produce the intended item.
Apon faliure you lose a quarter of the materials you started with .
The final product must be the same basic mass as the materials you started with (IE. you can not turn a twig into a whole house cannot turn an entire forest into a hand held figureine.)

tel me what you think

Much better, Both versions are good in my opinion, only playtesting will determine if they are gamebreaking or not though I don't think that will be the case, after all you're only creating mundane items which generally cannot be sold without DM permission, after all adventurers practically bleed money after a successful adventure so they have no real need to sell every sword or dagger they come across.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 merdok Jul 15, 2008 22:17:28	I have a second level warforged Wizard (dont ask me what build i use because I couldnt tell you . Never picked one only my spells) I am looking to make him a normal mage but his background makes him very intrested in creating things because he learned as much from the dwarves who created him as from the Dragonborn who had him created. Because of this I looked for a ritual,skill,or feat to create normal mundane items but I never found anything so I thought up my own ritual . what I am asking of you guys is to tell me how bad i got the ballence or if this even belongs as a ritual because non casters would not be able to use it . Anything you have to say about it would help alot so here it is. Arcane Creation… So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment. Level: 2 Category: Creation Time: Varies by size Duration: Permanent Component Cost: Special Market Price: 200 gp Key Skill: Arcana You use your arcane skill and reagents to transform mundane materials into basic items. Cost of components are one half the item cost plus cost of reagents depending on the weight of the Item Reagent cost by size 0-5:10gp Time:30 min 6-10:20gp Time:45 min 11-16:40gp Time:1 hour 17-20:50gp Time:1 hour 30 min 21+:ad 10GP per every 5 lbs Time:30 min per every 5 pounds Also, ideas for non magical non magic item creation ?
#2 splarg Jul 16, 2008 2:08:53	I believe I've seen this suggested somewhere else when discussing the artificer. It might be easier for book keeping to make the cost the same as the cost of the mundane item or perhaps a multiple of the item if you want it to cost a bit more (x1.5 or x2). I'd still keep a scaling casting time similar to that which you've got but based only on cost. Just my thoughts on it. Also, ideas for non magical non magic item creation ? Do you mean something like the old crafting rules? Maybe you could tie existing skills in with crafting. Thievery = traps, locks, thief equipment Nature = natural poisons Arcana = alchemical products Dungeoneering = stonework, castle construction. Something like that might do the trick otherwise just make it an ability check tied to whichever ability you think appropriate and give bonuses based on the characters background. (Your warforged wizard might gain a bonus with stone and metal work but perhaps not with leathercrafting or woodworking for instance)
#3 merdok Jul 16, 2008 3:59:18	I believe I've seen this suggested somewhere else when discussing the artificer. It might be easier for book keeping to make the cost the same as the cost of the mundane item or perhaps a multiple of the item if you want it to cost a bit more (x1.5 or x2). I'd still keep a scaling casting time similar to that which you've got but based only on cost. Just my thoughts on it. Do you mean something like the old crafting rules? Maybe you could tie existing skills in with crafting. Thievery = traps, locks, thief equipment Nature = natural poisons Arcana = alchemical products Dungeoneering = stonework, castle construction. Something like that might do the trick otherwise just make it an ability check tied to whichever ability you think appropriate and give bonuses based on the characters background. (Your warforged wizard might gain a bonus with stone and metal work but perhaps not with leathercrafting or woodworking for instance) hmmm an intersting idea about the cost. That dose make alot more sense than what I have. And the casting time well I think it works to do that by weight because basicly the heavyer it is the more time it will take to transmute. But I will take your words into concideration . now with the nonmagical idea you had. I dont like the old system because well 4th edition dosent lend itself to it. The skills I wouldnt belive are strong enough on there own because you would still be paying for materials and such. That and adventurers really have no reasion to learn smithing when they make the kind of money that they do. This whole idea I only put fourth as a rp flavoring for my character (though the things he creates will be very real) I am sure the artificer when eberron and the full artificer comes out all of that will be cleared up . Even when the new treasure book comes out it could be but this is just something that I want to put in his past that he learned to make him a more unique character (as if a warforged needs something to make them unique) Thanks for the feedback though
#4 merdok Jul 16, 2008 12:25:55	Here is a second draft of my ritual based on the above sugestion Arcane Creation… So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment. Level: 2 Category: Creation Time: 10 min per 10 foot cube Duration: Permanent Component Cost: Special Market Price: 2000 gp Key Skill: Arcana Through the use of arcane reagents and mundane materials you can create aan item that fits inside of a 10 foot cube.The componet cost is 75% the items normal cost . If the item cost is not on any list then the DM decides the cost of the ritual and a second virsion of this based on the 3.5 Fabricate spell found in page 229 of the 3.5 phb Arcane Creation… So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment. Level: 2 Category: Creation Time: 20 min per 2 squares Duration: Permanent Component Cost: Special Market Price: 200 gp Key Skill: Arcana You confert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. the cost of this material is 3 quarters the cost of the item to be created. As for casting time for each 2 squares that the final product would take up 20 min is requried . This time is not reduced for items that only take up one square or less. Sucessfull Arcana cast must be made with the DC to determine the quallity of the item DC20:High quallity DC15:Avrage DC10: Poor DC5 or below :Fail to produce the intended item. Apon faliure you lose a quarter of the materials you started with . The final product must be the same basic mass as the materials you started with (IE. you can not turn a twig into a whole house cannot turn an entire forest into a hand held figureine.) tel me what you think
#5 doomsought Jul 16, 2008 13:47:44	Arcane Creation… So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment. Level: 2 Category: Creation Time: 20 min per 2 squares Duration: Permanent Component Cost: Special Market Price: 200 gp Key Skill: Arcana You confert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. the cost of this material is 3 quarters the cost of the item to be created. As for casting time for each 2 squares that the final product would take up 20 min is requried . This time is not reduced for items that only take up one square or less. Sucessfull Arcana cast must be made with the DC to determine the quallity of the item DC20:High quallity DC15:Avrage DC10: Poor DC5 or below :Fail to produce the intended item. Apon faliure you lose a quarter of the materials you started with . The final product must be the same basic mass as the materials you started with (IE. you can not turn a twig into a whole house cannot turn an entire forest into a hand held figureine.) this is the most destructive spell ever, you can use it to destroy a planet. I'm very happy with it. Sucked into a microscopic black hole You will need: a microscopic black hole. Note that black holes are not eternal, they evaporate due to Hawking radiation. For your average black hole this takes an unimaginable amount of time, but for really small ones it could happen almost instantaneously, as evaporation time is dependent on mass. Therefore your microscopic black hole must have greater than a certain threshold mass, roughly equal to the mass of Mount Everest. Creating a microscopic black hole is tricky, since one needs a reasonable amount of neutronium, but may possibly be achievable by jamming large numbers of atomic nuclei together until they stick. This is left as an exercise to the reader. Method: simply place your black hole on the surface of the Earth and wait. Black holes are of such high density that they pass through ordinary matter like a stone through the air. The black hole will plummet through the ground, eating its way to the centre of the Earth and all the way through to the other side: then, it'll oscillate back, over and over like a matter-absorbing pendulum. Eventually it will come to rest at the core, having absorbed enough matter to slow it down. Then you just need to wait, while it sits and consumes matter until the whole Earth is gone. Earth's final resting place: a singularity with a radius of about nine millimetres, which will then proceed to happily orbit the Sun as normal. Feasibility rating: 3/10. Highly, highly unlikely. But not impossible. Comments: Getting closer! Source: The Dark Side Of The Sun, by Terry Pratchett. It is true that the microscopic black hole idea is an age-old science fiction mainstay which predates Pratchett by a long time, he was my original source for the idea, so that's what I'm putting. So how much does a black hole cost? Once we got it only about 20 min casting time to crush the mountain.
#6 merdok Jul 16, 2008 13:54:08	Ha ha ha intresting idea but how would you colide newcli and know what a blackhole is ? how would you even see the mollicule . As my dm would say "you are reaching for stars without yoru gloves on agin"
#7 doomsought Jul 16, 2008 15:41:38	just about every method of game breaking is meta-game, compare to the locate city bomb... but scrying into other (our) universes can get you there...
#8 merdok Jul 16, 2008 15:45:04	Not sure what you are getting at here. could you clerify ? what i think you are saying that anything can be used to break the game. this is true in this case it is up to the DM to say "no you cannot do that because X" unless a diffrent wording for the discription itself can be agreed apon. I was asking if it is broken as in maybe overpowerd for a lvl 2 char or the time to short or the price to low when compaired to the rest of the game things like that
#9 doomsought Jul 16, 2008 17:10:44	no, I'm saying all the methods of game breaking involve meta-gaming.
#10 merdok Jul 17, 2008 0:40:14	Well that is very true....shrugs
#11 splarg Jul 17, 2008 20:43:08	Here is a second draft of my ritual based on the above sugestion Arcane Creation… So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment. Level: 2 Category: Creation Time: 10 min per 10 foot cube Duration: Permanent Component Cost: Special Market Price: 2000 gp Key Skill: Arcana Through the use of arcane reagents and mundane materials you can create aan item that fits inside of a 10 foot cube.The componet cost is 75% the items normal cost . If the item cost is not on any list then the DM decides the cost of the ritual and a second virsion of this based on the 3.5 Fabricate spell found in page 229 of the 3.5 phb Arcane Creation… So you need a sword? Well I am no smith but…give me a moment. Level: 2 Category: Creation Time: 20 min per 2 squares Duration: Permanent Component Cost: Special Market Price: 200 gp Key Skill: Arcana You confert material of one sort into a product that is of the same material. the cost of this material is 3 quarters the cost of the item to be created. As for casting time for each 2 squares that the final product would take up 20 min is requried . This time is not reduced for items that only take up one square or less. Sucessfull Arcana cast must be made with the DC to determine the quallity of the item DC20:High quallity DC15:Avrage DC10: Poor DC5 or below :Fail to produce the intended item. Apon faliure you lose a quarter of the materials you started with . The final product must be the same basic mass as the materials you started with (IE. you can not turn a twig into a whole house cannot turn an entire forest into a hand held figureine.) tel me what you think Much better, Both versions are good in my opinion, only playtesting will determine if they are gamebreaking or not though I don't think that will be the case, after all you're only creating mundane items which generally cannot be sold without DM permission, after all adventurers practically bleed money after a successful adventure so they have no real need to sell every sword or dagger they come across.