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Armor as damage reduction ideas?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Tal-eth
Sep 15, 2010 19:16:02 Has anyone put together a system for armor as damage reduction that they wouldn't mind sharing?

I really like the idea of heavy armor offering DR, but I'm not sure how to go about balancing it across 30 levels of play.
#2
alitain
Sep 15, 2010 19:52:32 Well there is a masterwork plate that gives DR 2, it's I think the +5 or something. Don't have my book around to get the specifics but its in AV1
#3
salla
Sep 15, 2010 21:43:34 There are a few heavy armors that grant DR, both as masterwork qualities and regular properties.
#4
Sabelkatten
Sep 17, 2010 4:34:55 Have you played Conan D20? It has a pretty good DR armor system that might be possible to adapt to 4e. I haven't considered doing that myself, though.
#5
bone_naga
Sep 17, 2010 8:52:15 I liked the idea in 3e, but when I tried it in 4e it was a failure. Basically armor bonus = DR and a separate defense was created to avoid attacks. The 2e Combat & Tactics book listed weapons that were particularly good at ignoring armor and so gained bonuses against armored targets. I took those bonuses and converted them into armor penetration (AP) values, which allowed the attacker to ignore that amount of DR from armor.

Like I said, it never really worked that well in 4e. Another system I tried that I liked a lot better involved keeping AC exactly as is but having some armors also grant a small DR value (so chainmail might grant DR 1, scale DR 2, etc.) and heavy weapons or those known for piercing armor gain a small AP value (1 or 2).
#6
Centauri
Sep 17, 2010 10:28:48 Well, armor does reduce damage. You're free to narrate any missed attack as actually striking the armor and glancing off or being absorbed. Just because there's no loss of hit points doesn't mean such strikes are not painful. This probably wouldn't make sense for Will attacks or even many Fortitude attacks, but it's reasonable for AC and Reflex attacks.

But I'm learning that not everyone is comfortable with abstracting or narrating (even in their minds) how armor and other mechanics work. So, give it a try. It might make heavy armor more appealing than it seems to be now.
#7
Tal-eth
Sep 17, 2010 17:57:53
Well, armor does reduce damage. You're free to narrate any missed attack as actually striking the armor and glancing off or being absorbed. Just because there's no loss of hit points doesn't mean such strikes are not painful. This probably wouldn't make sense for Will attacks or even many Fortitude attacks, but it's reasonable for AC and Reflex attacks.

But I'm learning that not everyone is comfortable with abstracting or narrating (even in their minds) how armor and other mechanics work. So, give it a try. It might make heavy armor more appealing than it seems to be now.

That's one of the goals I have in mind...make heavy armor more appealing. This is because I am toying with the idea of using Essentials style classes (MBAs) in conjunction with the former version of Melee Training. Thus, if heavy armor offers some DR, a strength based fighter/rogue/whatever would have competitive appeal when compared to a dex based fighter/rogue/whatever.

I'm early on in the brainstorming, so any ideas or thoughts are most welcome.
#8
Centauri
Sep 17, 2010 18:07:11
I'm early on in the brainstorming, so any ideas or thoughts are most welcome.

If you're considering adding resistance even for non-magical armor, you might want to consider what kind of resistance it gives. Masterwork armor might be good against Will-based attacks (I'm thinking, for instance, of Magneto's helmet in X-Men) but does it make sense for mundane armor to offer that? And not all Fortitude attacks are necessarily ones that armor would reasonably help against.

I'm not too big a stickler for realism, but you should think about this. Even if you say that the armor offers "Resist 2 weapon attacks" you might get some unexpected results.
#9
Neutronium_Dragon
Sep 17, 2010 20:17:54 Heavy Armor is already appealing enough to classes that use it. The only issue right now (to the extent that it is one) is the number of classes that are designed to be light armor wearers vs the number that are designed to be heavy armor wearers.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Tal-eth Sep 15, 2010 19:16:02	Has anyone put together a system for armor as damage reduction that they wouldn't mind sharing? I really like the idea of heavy armor offering DR, but I'm not sure how to go about balancing it across 30 levels of play.
#2 alitain Sep 15, 2010 19:52:32	Well there is a masterwork plate that gives DR 2, it's I think the +5 or something. Don't have my book around to get the specifics but its in AV1
#3 salla Sep 15, 2010 21:43:34	There are a few heavy armors that grant DR, both as masterwork qualities and regular properties.
#4 Sabelkatten Sep 17, 2010 4:34:55	Have you played Conan D20? It has a pretty good DR armor system that might be possible to adapt to 4e. I haven't considered doing that myself, though.
#5 bone_naga Sep 17, 2010 8:52:15	I liked the idea in 3e, but when I tried it in 4e it was a failure. Basically armor bonus = DR and a separate defense was created to avoid attacks. The 2e Combat & Tactics book listed weapons that were particularly good at ignoring armor and so gained bonuses against armored targets. I took those bonuses and converted them into armor penetration (AP) values, which allowed the attacker to ignore that amount of DR from armor. Like I said, it never really worked that well in 4e. Another system I tried that I liked a lot better involved keeping AC exactly as is but having some armors also grant a small DR value (so chainmail might grant DR 1, scale DR 2, etc.) and heavy weapons or those known for piercing armor gain a small AP value (1 or 2).
#6 Centauri Sep 17, 2010 10:28:48	Well, armor does reduce damage. You're free to narrate any missed attack as actually striking the armor and glancing off or being absorbed. Just because there's no loss of hit points doesn't mean such strikes are not painful. This probably wouldn't make sense for Will attacks or even many Fortitude attacks, but it's reasonable for AC and Reflex attacks. But I'm learning that not everyone is comfortable with abstracting or narrating (even in their minds) how armor and other mechanics work. So, give it a try. It might make heavy armor more appealing than it seems to be now.
#7 Tal-eth Sep 17, 2010 17:57:53	Well, armor does reduce damage. You're free to narrate any missed attack as actually striking the armor and glancing off or being absorbed. Just because there's no loss of hit points doesn't mean such strikes are not painful. This probably wouldn't make sense for Will attacks or even many Fortitude attacks, but it's reasonable for AC and Reflex attacks. But I'm learning that not everyone is comfortable with abstracting or narrating (even in their minds) how armor and other mechanics work. So, give it a try. It might make heavy armor more appealing than it seems to be now. That's one of the goals I have in mind...make heavy armor more appealing. This is because I am toying with the idea of using Essentials style classes (MBAs) in conjunction with the former version of Melee Training. Thus, if heavy armor offers some DR, a strength based fighter/rogue/whatever would have competitive appeal when compared to a dex based fighter/rogue/whatever. I'm early on in the brainstorming, so any ideas or thoughts are most welcome.
#8 Centauri Sep 17, 2010 18:07:11	I'm early on in the brainstorming, so any ideas or thoughts are most welcome. If you're considering adding resistance even for non-magical armor, you might want to consider what kind of resistance it gives. Masterwork armor might be good against Will-based attacks (I'm thinking, for instance, of Magneto's helmet in X-Men) but does it make sense for mundane armor to offer that? And not all Fortitude attacks are necessarily ones that armor would reasonably help against. I'm not too big a stickler for realism, but you should think about this. Even if you say that the armor offers "Resist 2 weapon attacks" you might get some unexpected results.
#9 Neutronium_Dragon Sep 17, 2010 20:17:54	Heavy Armor is already appealing enough to classes that use it. The only issue right now (to the extent that it is one) is the number of classes that are designed to be light armor wearers vs the number that are designed to be heavy armor wearers.