Army House Rules. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Army House Rules.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
almeidaboo
Feb 24, 2009 16:01:46 Anyone House Ruled Armies yet? Any suggestions on how to handle Army Battles?
#2
rexracerjr
Feb 24, 2009 16:21:07 Ok. Use a blank map. Use minions. However, a minion miniature represents a battallion of soldiers. So 10 minions = 10 Groups.

draw your map on a much larger scle than usual.

Decrease speed to 2. no shifting.

Have different minis for archer battleions, and a special token for wizards/clerics. place this under a battleion, and it counts as having a battlion full of thiss class rather than a standard grunt. give them special abilities, (ie Temp HP for cleric and an AOE for a wizard).
#3
Seeker95
Feb 24, 2009 16:51:58 Army rules? Easy. The DM either decides which side wins or rolls two dice, and high roll wins. Armies don't have whole lot of roleplaying requirements.If they play any role at all in the story, it tends to be background filler.
#4
almeidaboo
Feb 24, 2009 16:54:57
Ok. Use a blank map. Use minions. However, a minion miniature represents a battallion of soldiers. So 10 minions = 10 Groups.

draw your map on a much larger scle than usual.

Decrease speed to 2. no shifting.

Have different minis for archer battleions, and a special token for wizards/clerics. place this under a battleion, and it counts as having a battlion full of thiss class rather than a standard grunt. give them special abilities, (ie Temp HP for cleric and an AOE for a wizard).

Quite awesome suggestion man! Tnks a lot, I'll try it!
#5
forumite
Feb 24, 2009 17:33:47 A unit is represented by one monster that has a number of hit points equal to the number of soldiers in the unit. The AC and attack bonus of the unit is equal to the average AC and attack bonus of the troops in it. A unit deals [W] per begun number of 10 soldiers so 55 soldiers using longswords deal 6d8 damage. For elite troops count each soldier as two for the purpose of hp and damage for the unit.

speed 2 is a good idea, no shifting is great, means it hard to disengage which makes sense. Flanking still applies. morale is handled as attacks again will defence when certain conditions are met, like being flanked or general dead, or spells, and makes the unit dazed until end of it's next turn due to disorganisation.

Wizards and archers have ranged at-will attacks of range about 10 for archers, 6 for wizards, -2 to hit above half range, wizards get a number of special spells usable a number of times depending on strength and numbers, 3 examples is one burst 1 spell for AoE, one damaging wall spell that lasts a round and one spell that creates difficult terrain in a burst 1 area for a round, possibly slides/pushes and pulls for more effects. Clerics have at-will temp-hp prayers but fight as normal troops in melee.
#6
tylara67
Feb 24, 2009 18:16:38 The Heroes of Battle book in 3.5 had a lot of good suggestions that could easily carry over to 4e. One of the important things is don't try to depict the whole battle. Give the PCs some strategic choices and some encounters, and decide how those choices and the results of those encounters affect the overall battle.

For example, suppose the PCs' army is having trouble on the left flank, but the right flank is pushing ahead. If the PCs choose to support the left flank, they run into a unit of the heavy infantry (or possibly heavy cavalry) that's pressuring that flank; a decisive victory there means the left flank rallies and counterattacks, a slow dragged-out victory means the left flank holds, and if the PCs are forced to retreat then the left flank crumbles. If the PCs attack the right flank, they may break through and fight a large number of weak archers and ranged units, or even the enemy general's personal bodyguards. A quick victory there devastates the opposing army, and may even win the battle outright, a slow victory means the battle continues with the PCs' army keeping up its strong offensive, and a defeat means the right flank's attack falters. You also have to decide what happens at the strategic locations the PCs choose not to get involved in. For example, the left flank may crumble without the PCs' aid unless they score decisive victory on the right flank. If the PCs go to the left, the right flank may have a fairly successful offensive unless the left flank crumbles and they have to slow their advance to protect the center.

Especially in a fantasy setting, the range of strategic choices can be vast, so try to boil it down to 2-4 options at each juncture. Sneak around the battle line to incapacitate the enemy mages from the rear? Make a heavy frontal assault to try to break through to the enemy archers? Try to assassinate the enemy's general(s), or destroy their supply line? Challenge the opposing champions to a duel to try to demoralize the foe? In each case, pick a reasonable encounter for what's being attempted and have the results of that encounter affect the overall battle.

Ultimately you want sort of a giant decision tree: from each point, what are the options? For each decision, what is the new set of options based on how the encounter went?
#7
forumite
Feb 24, 2009 18:32:28
good suggestions

I like this, I might even joink it for my own battles in another system. It makes the battle feel like the players have less control of the battle, which is probably how it was with huge numbers of melee troops fighting, there isn´t really that much room for maneuvers.
#8
tylara67
Feb 24, 2009 18:38:46
I like this, I might even joink it for my own battles in another system. It makes the battle feel like the players have less control of the battle, which is probably how it was with huge numbers of melee troops fighting, there isn´t really that much room for maneuvers.

Well, the PCs generally need to feel like they have some influence on the battle, or why should they even bother to show up? You do need to avoid the feeling of "titans wading through swarms of gnat-like peasants with pikes," though, because at that point it's not a battle any more, just another encounter with minions/swarms (which are good ways to represent relatively large fights that are still just a big encounter, rather than true pitched battles).
#9
Rustmonster
Feb 24, 2009 20:13:10 Play Chainmail.

Seriously, that's what I would do. I'd whip out my rules print-outs and use those. It's a rather awesome wargame.

I'd just find the closest fit for everyone. High level Fighter? SUPERHERO!
#10
LordMorbien
Feb 24, 2009 23:40:46 We've all used the Unit Combat rules from AEG's "War" D20 sourcebook, including a small scale scenario in one campaign, in which our characters defended a village to a full-scale war in another. The rules let your use different units of soldiers, archers etc., but also provides PCs who are actively engaged opportunities for one-on-one combat with enemy standard bearers and officers. I highly recommend it if you can find a copy.
#11
StarFyre2007
Feb 24, 2009 23:43:37 since play warhammer as well, we've done massed battles with some of the concepts from warhammer. As well, now in 4E< the minions rules as stated are great. On a large scale, treating humans/orcs, etc as just 1 hit/1 death is fine.

Warhammer does it like that as well..regular troops (not including Ogre Kingdoms army) have 1 wound (ie. 1 wound then die)..heroes have 2, larger creatures have 3, lords (leaders) have 3 and some 4-5, and special demons/dragons, etc have 5-10 depending.

Sanjay
#12
Guiltl3ss
Mar 02, 2009 16:37:04 The best thing I would suggest would be to find a sourcebook. Gurps 4th Ed has a good mass combat rule book, but I also find the old Dungeon and Dragons Rules Cyclopedia to have the right stuff. Take the rules and mod em as you see fit.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 almeidaboo Feb 24, 2009 16:01:46	Anyone House Ruled Armies yet? Any suggestions on how to handle Army Battles?
#2 rexracerjr Feb 24, 2009 16:21:07	Ok. Use a blank map. Use minions. However, a minion miniature represents a battallion of soldiers. So 10 minions = 10 Groups. draw your map on a much larger scle than usual. Decrease speed to 2. no shifting. Have different minis for archer battleions, and a special token for wizards/clerics. place this under a battleion, and it counts as having a battlion full of thiss class rather than a standard grunt. give them special abilities, (ie Temp HP for cleric and an AOE for a wizard).
#3 Seeker95 Feb 24, 2009 16:51:58	Army rules? Easy. The DM either decides which side wins or rolls two dice, and high roll wins. Armies don't have whole lot of roleplaying requirements.If they play any role at all in the story, it tends to be background filler.
#4 almeidaboo Feb 24, 2009 16:54:57	Ok. Use a blank map. Use minions. However, a minion miniature represents a battallion of soldiers. So 10 minions = 10 Groups. draw your map on a much larger scle than usual. Decrease speed to 2. no shifting. Have different minis for archer battleions, and a special token for wizards/clerics. place this under a battleion, and it counts as having a battlion full of thiss class rather than a standard grunt. give them special abilities, (ie Temp HP for cleric and an AOE for a wizard). Quite awesome suggestion man! Tnks a lot, I'll try it!
#5 forumite Feb 24, 2009 17:33:47	A unit is represented by one monster that has a number of hit points equal to the number of soldiers in the unit. The AC and attack bonus of the unit is equal to the average AC and attack bonus of the troops in it. A unit deals [W] per begun number of 10 soldiers so 55 soldiers using longswords deal 6d8 damage. For elite troops count each soldier as two for the purpose of hp and damage for the unit. speed 2 is a good idea, no shifting is great, means it hard to disengage which makes sense. Flanking still applies. morale is handled as attacks again will defence when certain conditions are met, like being flanked or general dead, or spells, and makes the unit dazed until end of it's next turn due to disorganisation. Wizards and archers have ranged at-will attacks of range about 10 for archers, 6 for wizards, -2 to hit above half range, wizards get a number of special spells usable a number of times depending on strength and numbers, 3 examples is one burst 1 spell for AoE, one damaging wall spell that lasts a round and one spell that creates difficult terrain in a burst 1 area for a round, possibly slides/pushes and pulls for more effects. Clerics have at-will temp-hp prayers but fight as normal troops in melee.
#6 tylara67 Feb 24, 2009 18:16:38	The Heroes of Battle book in 3.5 had a lot of good suggestions that could easily carry over to 4e. One of the important things is don't try to depict the whole battle. Give the PCs some strategic choices and some encounters, and decide how those choices and the results of those encounters affect the overall battle. For example, suppose the PCs' army is having trouble on the left flank, but the right flank is pushing ahead. If the PCs choose to support the left flank, they run into a unit of the heavy infantry (or possibly heavy cavalry) that's pressuring that flank; a decisive victory there means the left flank rallies and counterattacks, a slow dragged-out victory means the left flank holds, and if the PCs are forced to retreat then the left flank crumbles. If the PCs attack the right flank, they may break through and fight a large number of weak archers and ranged units, or even the enemy general's personal bodyguards. A quick victory there devastates the opposing army, and may even win the battle outright, a slow victory means the battle continues with the PCs' army keeping up its strong offensive, and a defeat means the right flank's attack falters. You also have to decide what happens at the strategic locations the PCs choose not to get involved in. For example, the left flank may crumble without the PCs' aid unless they score decisive victory on the right flank. If the PCs go to the left, the right flank may have a fairly successful offensive unless the left flank crumbles and they have to slow their advance to protect the center. Especially in a fantasy setting, the range of strategic choices can be vast, so try to boil it down to 2-4 options at each juncture. Sneak around the battle line to incapacitate the enemy mages from the rear? Make a heavy frontal assault to try to break through to the enemy archers? Try to assassinate the enemy's general(s), or destroy their supply line? Challenge the opposing champions to a duel to try to demoralize the foe? In each case, pick a reasonable encounter for what's being attempted and have the results of that encounter affect the overall battle. Ultimately you want sort of a giant decision tree: from each point, what are the options? For each decision, what is the new set of options based on how the encounter went?
#7 forumite Feb 24, 2009 18:32:28	good suggestions I like this, I might even joink it for my own battles in another system. It makes the battle feel like the players have less control of the battle, which is probably how it was with huge numbers of melee troops fighting, there isn´t really that much room for maneuvers.
#8 tylara67 Feb 24, 2009 18:38:46	I like this, I might even joink it for my own battles in another system. It makes the battle feel like the players have less control of the battle, which is probably how it was with huge numbers of melee troops fighting, there isn´t really that much room for maneuvers. Well, the PCs generally need to feel like they have some influence on the battle, or why should they even bother to show up? You do need to avoid the feeling of "titans wading through swarms of gnat-like peasants with pikes," though, because at that point it's not a battle any more, just another encounter with minions/swarms (which are good ways to represent relatively large fights that are still just a big encounter, rather than true pitched battles).
#9 Rustmonster Feb 24, 2009 20:13:10	Play Chainmail. Seriously, that's what I would do. I'd whip out my rules print-outs and use those. It's a rather awesome wargame. I'd just find the closest fit for everyone. High level Fighter? SUPERHERO!
#10 LordMorbien Feb 24, 2009 23:40:46	We've all used the Unit Combat rules from AEG's "War" D20 sourcebook, including a small scale scenario in one campaign, in which our characters defended a village to a full-scale war in another. The rules let your use different units of soldiers, archers etc., but also provides PCs who are actively engaged opportunities for one-on-one combat with enemy standard bearers and officers. I highly recommend it if you can find a copy.
#11 StarFyre2007 Feb 24, 2009 23:43:37	since play warhammer as well, we've done massed battles with some of the concepts from warhammer. As well, now in 4E< the minions rules as stated are great. On a large scale, treating humans/orcs, etc as just 1 hit/1 death is fine. Warhammer does it like that as well..regular troops (not including Ogre Kingdoms army) have 1 wound (ie. 1 wound then die)..heroes have 2, larger creatures have 3, lords (leaders) have 3 and some 4-5, and special demons/dragons, etc have 5-10 depending. Sanjay
#12 Guiltl3ss Mar 02, 2009 16:37:04	The best thing I would suggest would be to find a sourcebook. Gurps 4th Ed has a good mass combat rule book, but I also find the old Dungeon and Dragons Rules Cyclopedia to have the right stuff. Take the rules and mod em as you see fit.