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#1

Delazar78

Mar 23, 2010 16:01:56
I'm planning to run a military campaign, loosely (or more) based on the Malazan Empire (from Steven Erikson).

The ruling Emperor is one of the Nine Knights of the Sublime Way (from 3.5 Tome of Battle, on which I based a lot of my running 4E campaign), and he's going to have his military forces divided in 9 armies, each named after one of the Disciplines of the Sublime Way.

So, we will have the White Raven Army, the Stone Dragon Army, etc. Each Army is composed of 10 Legions, each Leagion is made of 10 Companies, in each Company there are 10 squads and each Squad is made of 10 soldiers. Each army will be composed of about 10,000 soldiers. Not every army will be at full coplement, so this number may vary.

For example, you can have a Soldier belonging to the 7th Army, 2nd Legion, 4th Company, 3rd Squad.

I don't want to use too many "numerals" (1st this, 4th that), but I'd like to give a more descriptive name to a specific unit.

Armies will be named by their discipline (ex. White Raven)
Legions will be named by a variety related to their Army (ex. Silverwings)
Companies will be named by their type (ex. "Arrows" for archers, "Swords" for Infantry, etc.) Here there may be some repetition, like "2nd Arrows", since there could be multiple companies of the same type.
Squads will just be named by numerals (ex. 2nd Squad, 5th Squad)

So, we could have a soldier belonging to the White Raven Army, Silverwings Legion, 2nd Sword Company, 6th Squad.

Now, I'm looking for a way to have all this info represented by some kind of "badge" that each soldier will have sewn on his uniform, so that each soldier in any army can recognize another one just by looking at his badge.

I was thinking of having a shield-shaped badge, where the center is occupied by the symbol of the army, below this, you would have a symbol of the Legion. In the left upper corner, the symbol of the Company with a number, and on the right upper corner the number of the squad. Or maybe just divide the shield in four quarters, and put the army and the legion in the upper quarters, and the company and squad in the lower ones.

Although it seems a bit cluttered. Does anyone have a suggestion, maybe with some example?

thx in advance



#2

pureheart1975

Mar 23, 2010 16:09:45

In real life soldiers might be switched at any time to a different squad, etc. I would think you would have a separate badge representing each? You could still apply them in a quadrant fashion.

#3

bone_naga

Mar 23, 2010 19:27:42
You could have separate badges. Maybe on the left chest/collar/shoulder/whatever the soldier wears the badge for his legion. On the right he has his company. I would think that you wouldn't really need to designate it lower than that, especially down to the squad level. Squads are the unit most likely to change, especially as the company takes casualties, and it would be kind of silly to expect them to get new badges in between battles during a siege or invasion, or anything else where they are repeatedly fighting within a short period of time.

You could also go with something like a coat of arms or patches like the modern army. Each Army could have its own symbol or coat of arms, something more interesting than just a number (and you could use this as another means to flesh out your world by having a symbolic and/or historical meaning between each part of this badge, to include the colors, and the players are expected to know this just like all other soldiers within that unit). Then lower divisions, like legion and company, could be designated with numbers or variations of that symbol.

For example, the 3rd Army might have a golden lion with a red background as its badge to represent its bravery during the battle of such and such hill, where they stood their ground against a vastly superior force and held the hill until reinforcements arrived, turning the tide of the war. The red represents the large number of casualties that they took during this battle. The gold represents the awards they received for saving the kingdom from invasion. The 2nd Legion of the 3rd Army might be represented by a "2" or "II" on the 3rd Army patch, or maybe its a slight tweak to the design, like adding a royal blue border around the badge to signify that they escorted the king himself to the negotiations at the end of the war.
#4

yellowdingo

Mar 23, 2010 23:59:25


The Standard Bearer might simply go with a Quarter field so as to encompass all the information.

#5

Delazar78

Mar 24, 2010 1:44:34
A standard bearer for each Squad seems too much. Maybe I'll go with a shoulder-piece with the symbol of the Army, and the number of the Legion. (ex. "White Raven" symbol, with a "III" for the 3rd Legion of the White Raven Army)

Company will be mentioned on the Flag of the Standard Bearer (Archers, Infantry, etc.) and squad will just be something that each soldeir will have to mention by himself, as indeed it may change a lot.

Then maybe individual Legions or Companis may have some kind of aquired "battle name", earned for their actions in battle. (ex. White Raven Army, 3rd Legion, 2nd Infantry Company, "The Orcsmashers")

Now, if only I could find some cool depictions of the Nine Disciplines of the Sublime Way... mh...
#6

wouldy0ukindly

Mar 24, 2010 1:56:37
I don't have any relevant advice.. because all these ideas are pretty sound. I do however want to commend you on an excellent idea! With your permission I may want  to adapt this for my Silver Flamish army in my steam-punk Eberronish campaign.

#7

Delazar78

Mar 24, 2010 5:07:17
permission granted! and I strongly suggest to read the Malazan Book of the Fallen... loads of ideas for a military campaign
#8

MWSAber

Mar 24, 2010 15:25:52
Historically, soldiers would probably be with their Company (roughly 1-150 men) through their career.  Next might be a Battle or Regiment those the later don't really come about until the late 1600s.  Companies ingt be named for their Leader (Jones' Company) or some symbol (Red Sheild Company).  These would be grouped into Battles or Wings (Lefr, Right Center) based on the deployment on the day of battle.  Going farther back the Roman model of Cohort, Century and Legion could be used. 
#9

ordrus

Mar 26, 2010 2:54:55
I really do love this sort of stuff when it comes to world building. My party was performing some reconnaisance for an army and while taking notes of the orc horde a player asked "can we determine different tribe markings or something?" Well, as luck would have it, I had written a bit of info on a number of the predominant orc clans, their favoured fighting styles and tactics, and descriptions of the banners they carried.

As for you whole system it seems pretty cool, though I agree as well that naming it down to the squad is a bit much. As for coat of arms, it would make sense if these men were fighting under a particular noblemen (heraldry is typically reserved for nobles and above). Seeing as how this is all under an emperor you may want to look at either modern day military patches or try something like Ancient Rome and the names and markings they use to differentiate between groups.

My idea would be using a number of basic symbols and then changing the positioning and the major symbols depending upon the army and legion. For example, a badge could consist of a front view of a spread-winged white raven, the feathers lined with silver, and a sword grasped in it's talons. This entire image would be placed upon a roman numeral 2 (II). Of course the roman numerals could be put into different positions. If it's an archery company replace the sword with two arrows grasped within the silver-winged, white raven's claws. Usually a lot of modern military badges will have symbolic images connecting with either the name of the group or it's function.

I hope that helps.
#10

Ogiwan

Mar 27, 2010 9:57:47
Ahhh, topics military!

Well. To compare to real world stuff, your Armies are roughly comparable to real-world divisions. Doesn't help us; just thought I'd say. Funnily enough, post-Marian Roman legions were about 4,800 strong, if I remember correctly.

Anyways. MWSAber has a good point in that soldiers would would probably identify most with their companies; 100 men is right about where a modern company is (3 platoons of roughly 30-40, plus a heavy weapons platoon). Sure, your companies would be subdivided into squads, but I don't think Higher (-ranking officers/echelons of command/whatever) would really care about individual squads. So, if you need to remove that level of complexity from heraldry, you probably can.

Currently, US Army combat units generally have distinctive insignias (insigniae?) for Army, Corps, Division (your Armies), and Brigades/Regiments (your Legions). Support units, like Military Intelligence, have them for battalions, but that's because you're not really going to see an MI division or whatever.

Here's a helpful link for you: a list of the stuff available on the Army's Institute of Heraldry site .

Will all of it be useful? Probably not. But, a lot of it will be, or be at the very least interesting. Coat of Arms/Distinctive Unit Insignia/Shoulder Sleeve Insignia will take you to a big listing of first all the types of units the Army has, and then a listing of what units there are; every unit there has a cool little design. The 101st Airborne, for example, has the famous screaming bald eagle (or, as others refer to it, the "puking chicken." Don't say that in earshot of a 101 vet, though, unless you're a vet too.)

Sometimes, the sub-units of a division (its regiments or brigades) have some sort of relation to its parent unit. The 101st's 2nd Brigade, the 502nd Infantry Regiment ("Strike," but you might have heard of one of the companies in "The Deuce") has an eagle's claw, which not only alludes to the airborne (really air assault, but whatever) nature of the regiment, but also ties back to its parent unit.

Quite often, a unit's region of origin will manifest in its insignia, or its insignia will give it a nickname.  An example where both is kinda the case is the 26th Infantry Division, whose honors are currently carried by the 26th Maneuver Enhancement Brigade. The 26th was mostly manned by men from New England; as a result, it was known as the "Yankee Division," and this manifests in its shoulder patch, a combined "YD." The 4th Infantry Division is nicknamed the "Ivys" as a result of the ivy leaves on the insignia. IV is also the Roman numeral for 4, so in a sense, it's a pun. 

A units actions may also give it a nickname. The 3rd Infantry Division was nicknamed the "Rock of the Marne" due to its distinction of holding its position while units to either side of it fell back. Similarly, the 3rd Brigade of the 101st, the 187th Infantry Regiment has the nickname of "the Rakkasans" because, when occupying Japan, a translator tried to explain that they were an Airborne unit. Not knowing the Japanese word for "parachute," he used the word "Rakkasan," which translates to "falling down umbrella man." The locals were horribly amused by this, and the nickname stuck; as a result of this bit of history, the Rakkasans love to flaunt that annoying little arch of theirs as their unofficial unit symbol.

Now, a unit's motto also may tell you something about it (or how it perceives itself). Quite a lot of "2nd" units, such as the 2nd Infantry Division, proclaim in their motto that they are "Second to None!" Others are just freaking cool; the 1st Gas Regiment has the motto, "Ago Ardorem Fumumque," which translates to, "I Rule the Fire and Smoke."

Good lord I have nattered on. Well, I'd recommend you also take a look at the distinctive names for the Roman legions; Legio V was known as "Alaudae," or the Larks, after its member's practice of painting or riviting designs on their helmet that looked like larks wings. Many other Roman legions have their own nicknames, symbols, and so forth.

Last, on the IoH page link that I sent, look at Flags and Guidons, and then Organizational Flags and Guidons. That will give you an idea of how some of the Army's guidons are designed. Poke around that site, and other heraldry sites.
#11

indyjoe

Apr 02, 2010 0:01:54
Regardless of your approach, may I humbly recommend my Coat of Arms Design Studio software?  The free version should be all you need.  There are over 150 built-in charges (animals and symbols) to use as well as ordinaries and divisions.  There may be a few symbols you want that aren't built in, but you could always paste them in later using a general image editor.  You can use a classic shield shape or a lozenge (diamond--usually for women of nobility) or a plain rectangle.
#12

bone_naga

Apr 02, 2010 15:03:19
Joe, that design software is awesome. Is there a downloadable version?
#13

indyjoe

Apr 02, 2010 23:26:43
The pro/paid version is downloadable and runs on your computer even without internet access.  It also includes the ability to save very large versions of your graphics (so it will look nicer when printed) and you can add any .png image to the coat of arms and resize and reposition the image.