At Will. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

At Will.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gwentyr
Jun 03, 2009 4:38:44 Hi
My partys dwarven defender have aked me if I would alow this new "at will"
He is a defender.
-------------------
Reactive Armor
Taunts/Marks two nearby and adjacent targets, preparing to retaliate with the shield on an attack
At-Will ✦ Martial
Requires Shield
Strength vs Reflex
Trigger : hit by damaging melee attack
Immediate Interrupt : Absorbs 3+con damage (6+con @ lvl 11, 9+con @ level 21)
Hit 1d6 + str (or con?)

---------

What do you guys say... I like it ;)
Cheers
#2
Quintarius
Jun 03, 2009 7:11:07 I think a power at will that lets you absorb around 5 to 6dmg for every attack is a bit much. Its a nice encounter or maybe daily
#3
Electricbee
Jun 03, 2009 7:30:43 At wills a generally (always probably, don't have the books at work with me) standard actions. Allowing an at will that is an interrupt allows a character essentially to double his impact. Not a good idea.
#4
rikiji
Jun 03, 2009 9:57:13 An at-will should be a standard action. Interrupt is definately overpowered.
It should also be noted that for a fighter to do his job he should normally be reserving his interrupt for combat challenge.
The damage absorbtion is way too strong for an at-will.
Targeting a non-AC defense is ok since there isn't a weapon keyword; however, since this is an at-will it must have some other way for the attack roll to scale.
Overall, this power just doesn't work on many levels.
#5
tiamatthedragongod
Jun 03, 2009 10:09:37 Woa, Absorb damage AND do damage AND interrupt?

lol, yeah, that's a little too powerful.

Here, I think something like this will work better:

#6
darkerdreams
Jun 03, 2009 11:22:36 I'm going to come at this from a slightly different tack. It is overpowered, in no small part because you're doing several things at once. however, an equally big concern is that it runs directly counter to the defender schtick- you're punishing someone for attacking you when every core defender power is about getting them to hit you rather than someone else.

Let me run some ideas by you, all of these are going to down power it a lot, and are going to make some other structural changes to encourage defender-ness.

I'm still not sure that this is appropriate for an at-will attack. Part of the purpose of at-wills is to give characters something other than MBA (or RBA) to do with their turn... but we'll go with it.

#7
rikiji
Jun 03, 2009 13:30:48 There are 3 problems with the interrupt:
1) It creates balance concerns
2) It's directly opposed to your class abilities
3) It makes the power too situational for an at-will power

I like the Shield Bash DarkerDreams proposed, but it still needs to scale the Attack roll or it will be useless at higher levels. Without an implement or weapon keyword you cannont apply an enhancement bonus, which is eventually a -6 to attack rolls.
#8
darkerdreams
Jun 03, 2009 14:20:50 Yeah, I don't really like immediate interrupt at-wills... I can see some uses for them, but it'd be pretty hard to balance and make really useful. At least my version is a defender interrupt... ;)

I like the Shield Bash DarkerDreams proposed, but it still needs to scale the Attack roll or it will be useless at higher levels. Without an implement or weapon keyword you cannont apply an enhancement bonus, which is eventually a -6 to attack rolls.

Ironically, the damage is as much a concern for me as the to-hit issue, but that's easier to increase. You don't want to bring it up over weapon damage though...

On the other hand, most of the important effects (defense bonus, and fighter mark) have nothing to do with a hit.

Watching the hit-value;
Unfortunately shields don't have an enhancement bonus at all...
The easy answer is to use the weapon enhancement, but that seems somewhat hollow... similarly, you could use their armor enchantment bonus- which still seems somewhat wonky.
Perhaps the best answer (in theory) would be to give them a "virtual" bonus based on the level of their shield- shield of deflection is +1 at 12th level and +2 at 22nd (or somesuch, that seems a bit low, maybe +3 and +6...) ... but that'd take a bit to work the kinks out of, and could be pretty clunky to write up.

Perhaps another twist would be use that penalty as design space to add another minor upgrade. Making it a Melee Basic Attack would add the potential to use it as an interrupt (or opp attack). More frequent usability can offset lower hit value. An alternate idea based on that theory would be to make it a minor or move action (usable once per turn), which seems like a perfect offset to the lowered attack value.

Things to think about.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gwentyr Jun 03, 2009 4:38:44	Hi My partys dwarven defender have aked me if I would alow this new "at will" He is a defender. ------------------- Reactive Armor Taunts/Marks two nearby and adjacent targets, preparing to retaliate with the shield on an attack At-Will ✦ Martial Requires Shield Strength vs Reflex Trigger : hit by damaging melee attack Immediate Interrupt : Absorbs 3+con damage (6+con @ lvl 11, 9+con @ level 21) Hit 1d6 + str (or con?) --------- What do you guys say... I like it ;) Cheers
#2 Quintarius Jun 03, 2009 7:11:07	I think a power at will that lets you absorb around 5 to 6dmg for every attack is a bit much. Its a nice encounter or maybe daily
#3 Electricbee Jun 03, 2009 7:30:43	At wills a generally (always probably, don't have the books at work with me) standard actions. Allowing an at will that is an interrupt allows a character essentially to double his impact. Not a good idea.
#4 rikiji Jun 03, 2009 9:57:13	An at-will should be a standard action. Interrupt is definately overpowered. It should also be noted that for a fighter to do his job he should normally be reserving his interrupt for combat challenge. The damage absorbtion is way too strong for an at-will. Targeting a non-AC defense is ok since there isn't a weapon keyword; however, since this is an at-will it must have some other way for the attack roll to scale. Overall, this power just doesn't work on many levels.
#5 tiamatthedragongod Jun 03, 2009 10:09:37	Woa, Absorb damage AND do damage AND interrupt? lol, yeah, that's a little too powerful. Here, I think something like this will work better:
#6 darkerdreams Jun 03, 2009 11:22:36	I'm going to come at this from a slightly different tack. It is overpowered, in no small part because you're doing several things at once. however, an equally big concern is that it runs directly counter to the defender schtick- you're punishing someone for attacking you when every core defender power is about getting them to hit you rather than someone else. Let me run some ideas by you, all of these are going to down power it a lot, and are going to make some other structural changes to encourage defender-ness. I'm still not sure that this is appropriate for an at-will attack. Part of the purpose of at-wills is to give characters something other than MBA (or RBA) to do with their turn... but we'll go with it.
#7 rikiji Jun 03, 2009 13:30:48	There are 3 problems with the interrupt: 1) It creates balance concerns 2) It's directly opposed to your class abilities 3) It makes the power too situational for an at-will power I like the Shield Bash DarkerDreams proposed, but it still needs to scale the Attack roll or it will be useless at higher levels. Without an implement or weapon keyword you cannont apply an enhancement bonus, which is eventually a -6 to attack rolls.
#8 darkerdreams Jun 03, 2009 14:20:50	Yeah, I don't really like immediate interrupt at-wills... I can see some uses for them, but it'd be pretty hard to balance and make really useful. At least my version is a defender interrupt... ;) I like the Shield Bash DarkerDreams proposed, but it still needs to scale the Attack roll or it will be useless at higher levels. Without an implement or weapon keyword you cannont apply an enhancement bonus, which is eventually a -6 to attack rolls. Ironically, the damage is as much a concern for me as the to-hit issue, but that's easier to increase. You don't want to bring it up over weapon damage though... On the other hand, most of the important effects (defense bonus, and fighter mark) have nothing to do with a hit. Watching the hit-value; Unfortunately shields don't have an enhancement bonus at all... The easy answer is to use the weapon enhancement, but that seems somewhat hollow... similarly, you could use their armor enchantment bonus- which still seems somewhat wonky. Perhaps the best answer (in theory) would be to give them a "virtual" bonus based on the level of their shield- shield of deflection is +1 at 12th level and +2 at 22nd (or somesuch, that seems a bit low, maybe +3 and +6...) ... but that'd take a bit to work the kinks out of, and could be pretty clunky to write up. Perhaps another twist would be use that penalty as design space to add another minor upgrade. Making it a Melee Basic Attack would add the potential to use it as an interrupt (or opp attack). More frequent usability can offset lower hit value. An alternate idea based on that theory would be to make it a minor or move action (usable once per turn), which seems like a perfect offset to the lowered attack value. Things to think about.