Attack/Utility Power Swap Feats - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Attack/Utility Power Swap Feats

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
arxmage
Jun 27, 2008 3:21:42 In the game I'm helping to run, we're considering using the following three feats to allow characters to have a larger degree of choice in choosing their powers. They basically allow you to swap Attack powers for Utility Powers and vice-versa. The allowance in the feats to choose a power one level higher is really just because Attack and Utility Powers never share the same level. I'd love your feedback on whether you think these are balanced as feats.

**Encounter Utilitarian**
When you choose this feat, you choose one Encounter Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for an Encounter Utility Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Encounter Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power.
Example: A 2nd level cleric who has the Encounter Attack Power: Cause Fear takes the Encounter Utilitarian feat. The cleric gives up the attack power Cause Fear and may choose the utility power Divine Aid to use in its place. When this cleric reaches level 7 (and gets the new Encounter Attack Power: Searing Light), he may choose to change the powers he exchanged. He would lose Divine Aid and regain Cause Fear, then give up Searing Light for Bastion of Health (a level 6 Encounter Utility Power). This change would use his "one change per level" allowance.

**Daily Utilitarian**
When you choose this feat, you choose one Daily Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for a Daily Utility Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Daily Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power.

**Utilitarian Attack**
When you choose this feat, you choose one Daily Utility Power or Encounter Utility Power that you will give up in exchange for the same time of Attack Power (i.e. - if you sacrifice a Daily Utility Power, you can choose a Daily Attack Power in it's place). The level of the Attack Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Utility Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Utility Power that you gave up as well as the Attack Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power.
#2
eldritch_lord
Jun 27, 2008 8:01:50 Exchanging a utility power for an attack power is too good as written. It should be "The level of the Attack Power that you gain cannot exceed either your character level or one less than the level of the Utility Power that you gave up."

Daily powers especially are pretty powerful, and being able to swap out utilities to get higher-level dailies is a bad idea. I'm a bit leery on getting an encounter power for a utility, and that should probably be 1 level lower as well, but it's not as bad as the dailies.
#3
drachasor
Jun 27, 2008 10:04:00 This is a bad idea. The whole point in making separate tiers of power was to avoid certain problems. First, by making utility powers separate from attack powers, you don't force people to have NO Utility when optimizing for combat. Second, by adding this you increase the number of daily attacks people have, and thereby increase the chance of the "5 minute workday" where people blow their dailies and then want to rest.
#4
generalhenry
Jun 27, 2008 10:09:01 in short, NO
#5
arxmage
Jun 27, 2008 12:07:13 It's aggravating that the designers have forced everyone to take attack powers. I'd love to just play a support cleric, but without the ability to pick up more utility powers, I feel terribly limited there. I know we can say that lots of the attack powers do support kinds of things...but none of them have the right flavor...the way that the utility powers do.

I would have just written the first 2 feats and left out the Utility -> Attack one, but that didn't seem fair or right.
#6
eldritch_lord
Jun 27, 2008 12:25:38
It's aggravating that the designers have forced everyone to take attack powers. I'd love to just play a support cleric, but without the ability to pick up more utility powers, I feel terribly limited there. I know we can say that lots of the attack powers do support kinds of things...but none of them have the right flavor...the way that the utility powers do.

I would have just written the first 2 feats and left out the Utility -> Attack one, but that didn't seem fair or right.

I agree completely--the ability to swap attack powers out for utility is fine (and a good idea), but the reverse is not balanced at all. If he wants to keep it, he could go with my earlier suggestion...but after thinking about it for a while I think he should just drop the third ability altogether.
#7
generalhenry
Jun 27, 2008 12:33:49 do clerics really have a shortage of utility powers?
#8
arxmage
Jun 27, 2008 12:59:32 It's not that they have a shortage of utility powers, but that their utility powers are great! Further, if you have a player who wants to play more of a support role, the attack powers available to clerics are rather lacking. I know a lot of people want to get away from the idea of the cleric as a "heal-bot/cleanse-bot"...but some people actually want to play that role. The Attack powers just don't fit the bill for that role.
#9
nobodyremembersthis
Jun 27, 2008 13:28:24 Why not create a Pacifist feat that allows you to select utility spells in place of encounter or daily spells? It would fit the theme of the PC, explain why the swap is one way, and be balanced.
#10
arxmage
Jun 27, 2008 13:32:20 =) I think that's a great name for the feat. I know we're all new to the game as it was just released, but does the feat seem to be in line with the other feats in the game? Does it seem to be more or less balanced? I appreciate all the feedback here, so I'd be happy to receive some more! Thanks!

Pacifist
When you choose this feat, you choose one Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for an Encounter or Daily Utility Power. If you give up an Encounter Power, you must gain an Encounter Power. If you give up a Daily Power, you must gain a Daily Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power.
#11
drachasor
Jun 27, 2008 13:49:54
It's aggravating that the designers have forced everyone to take attack powers. I'd love to just play a support cleric, but without the ability to pick up more utility powers, I feel terribly limited there. I know we can say that lots of the attack powers do support kinds of things...but none of them have the right flavor...the way that the utility powers do.

I would have just written the first 2 feats and left out the Utility -> Attack one, but that didn't seem fair or right.

You could probably let players just take the next level up of Utility powers from their encounter and daily powers to replace those encounters and dailies (or perhaps just the nearest level of utility powers available). Such a character would be significantly weaker than standard cleric, I think. You'd also be awful at defending yourself. If you don't mind playing a character that is less significant than the other players, and your DM is ok with it, then you might as well ask.

Utility -> attack is a definite no-no, however.
#12
eldritch_lord
Jun 27, 2008 13:54:23
Pacifist
When you choose this feat, you choose one Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for an Encounter or Daily Utility Power. If you give up an Encounter Power, you must gain an Encounter Power. If you give up a Daily Power, you must gain a Daily Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power.

Excellent! I must say, I like the name the most.

One minor issue: You should probably specify that the utility power you gain has to be from the same class as the power you give up, just to prevent another 3e Extra Spell fiasco.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 arxmage Jun 27, 2008 3:21:42	In the game I'm helping to run, we're considering using the following three feats to allow characters to have a larger degree of choice in choosing their powers. They basically allow you to swap Attack powers for Utility Powers and vice-versa. The allowance in the feats to choose a power one level higher is really just because Attack and Utility Powers never share the same level. I'd love your feedback on whether you think these are balanced as feats. Encounter Utilitarian When you choose this feat, you choose one Encounter Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for an Encounter Utility Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Encounter Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power. Example: A 2nd level cleric who has the Encounter Attack Power: Cause Fear takes the Encounter Utilitarian feat. The cleric gives up the attack power Cause Fear and may choose the utility power Divine Aid to use in its place. When this cleric reaches level 7 (and gets the new Encounter Attack Power: Searing Light), he may choose to change the powers he exchanged. He would lose Divine Aid and regain Cause Fear, then give up Searing Light for Bastion of Health (a level 6 Encounter Utility Power). This change would use his "one change per level" allowance. Daily Utilitarian When you choose this feat, you choose one Daily Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for a Daily Utility Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Daily Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power. Utilitarian Attack When you choose this feat, you choose one Daily Utility Power or Encounter Utility Power that you will give up in exchange for the same time of Attack Power (i.e. - if you sacrifice a Daily Utility Power, you can choose a Daily Attack Power in it's place). The level of the Attack Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Utility Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Utility Power that you gave up as well as the Attack Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power.
#2 eldritch_lord Jun 27, 2008 8:01:50	Exchanging a utility power for an attack power is too good as written. It should be "The level of the Attack Power that you gain cannot exceed either your character level or one less than the level of the Utility Power that you gave up." Daily powers especially are pretty powerful, and being able to swap out utilities to get higher-level dailies is a bad idea. I'm a bit leery on getting an encounter power for a utility, and that should probably be 1 level lower as well, but it's not as bad as the dailies.
#3 drachasor Jun 27, 2008 10:04:00	This is a bad idea. The whole point in making separate tiers of power was to avoid certain problems. First, by making utility powers separate from attack powers, you don't force people to have NO Utility when optimizing for combat. Second, by adding this you increase the number of daily attacks people have, and thereby increase the chance of the "5 minute workday" where people blow their dailies and then want to rest.
#4 generalhenry Jun 27, 2008 10:09:01	in short, NO
#5 arxmage Jun 27, 2008 12:07:13	It's aggravating that the designers have forced everyone to take attack powers. I'd love to just play a support cleric, but without the ability to pick up more utility powers, I feel terribly limited there. I know we can say that lots of the attack powers do support kinds of things...but none of them have the right flavor...the way that the utility powers do. I would have just written the first 2 feats and left out the Utility -> Attack one, but that didn't seem fair or right.
#6 eldritch_lord Jun 27, 2008 12:25:38	It's aggravating that the designers have forced everyone to take attack powers. I'd love to just play a support cleric, but without the ability to pick up more utility powers, I feel terribly limited there. I know we can say that lots of the attack powers do support kinds of things...but none of them have the right flavor...the way that the utility powers do. I would have just written the first 2 feats and left out the Utility -> Attack one, but that didn't seem fair or right. I agree completely--the ability to swap attack powers out for utility is fine (and a good idea), but the reverse is not balanced at all. If he wants to keep it, he could go with my earlier suggestion...but after thinking about it for a while I think he should just drop the third ability altogether.
#7 generalhenry Jun 27, 2008 12:33:49	do clerics really have a shortage of utility powers?
#8 arxmage Jun 27, 2008 12:59:32	It's not that they have a shortage of utility powers, but that their utility powers are great! Further, if you have a player who wants to play more of a support role, the attack powers available to clerics are rather lacking. I know a lot of people want to get away from the idea of the cleric as a "heal-bot/cleanse-bot"...but some people actually want to play that role. The Attack powers just don't fit the bill for that role.
#9 nobodyremembersthis Jun 27, 2008 13:28:24	Why not create a Pacifist feat that allows you to select utility spells in place of encounter or daily spells? It would fit the theme of the PC, explain why the swap is one way, and be balanced.
#10 arxmage Jun 27, 2008 13:32:20	=) I think that's a great name for the feat. I know we're all new to the game as it was just released, but does the feat seem to be in line with the other feats in the game? Does it seem to be more or less balanced? I appreciate all the feedback here, so I'd be happy to receive some more! Thanks! Pacifist When you choose this feat, you choose one Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for an Encounter or Daily Utility Power. If you give up an Encounter Power, you must gain an Encounter Power. If you give up a Daily Power, you must gain a Daily Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power.
#11 drachasor Jun 27, 2008 13:49:54	It's aggravating that the designers have forced everyone to take attack powers. I'd love to just play a support cleric, but without the ability to pick up more utility powers, I feel terribly limited there. I know we can say that lots of the attack powers do support kinds of things...but none of them have the right flavor...the way that the utility powers do. I would have just written the first 2 feats and left out the Utility -> Attack one, but that didn't seem fair or right. You could probably let players just take the next level up of Utility powers from their encounter and daily powers to replace those encounters and dailies (or perhaps just the nearest level of utility powers available). Such a character would be significantly weaker than standard cleric, I think. You'd also be awful at defending yourself. If you don't mind playing a character that is less significant than the other players, and your DM is ok with it, then you might as well ask. Utility -> attack is a definite no-no, however.
#12 eldritch_lord Jun 27, 2008 13:54:23	Pacifist When you choose this feat, you choose one Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you will give up in exchange for an Encounter or Daily Utility Power. If you give up an Encounter Power, you must gain an Encounter Power. If you give up a Daily Power, you must gain a Daily Power. The level of the Utility Power that you gain can not exceed either of your character level or one more than the level of the Encounter or Daily Attack Power that you gave up. When you gain levels, you may change the Attack Power that you gave up as well as the Utility Power that you gained, but it counts as the once per level change you may make. This feat may be taken more that once. Each time it allows you to exchange another power. Excellent! I must say, I like the name the most. One minor issue: You should probably specify that the utility power you gain has to be from the same class as the power you give up, just to prevent another 3e Extra Spell fiasco.