Autodamage, Would you use it against players? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Autodamage, Would you use it against players?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Herrozerro
Oct 06, 2011 10:13:54 We have had player based autodamage with magic missile becoming an atwill autodamaging attack it seems to be alright.

But what about using autodamage against players, besides the negation of their defenses does anyone see any issues with building a monster or two that deal about minion auto damage to PCs?
#2
frothsof
Oct 06, 2011 10:16:20 i do it all the time. last game i ran i had minions that when they died they screamed a chilling scream and everyone within 5 squares took autodamage (psychic). it wasnt being mean or anything, it actually led to interesting strategy by the players about when to kill them and where to be.

i am for anything as a dm OR as a player that makes encounters challenging, provided it has good flavor. i am more likely to use an autodamage effect than i am not to
#3
pluisjen
Oct 06, 2011 10:16:31 Autodamage is nothing new. Auras have been doing it since MM1.
#4
Herrozerro
Oct 06, 2011 10:17:48
Autodamage is nothing new. Auras have been doing it since MM1.

Well aura's are different, Im talking about a monstr just going: "You take 12 damage!" no rolls no nothing.
#5
pluisjen
Oct 06, 2011 10:19:17 Eh, sure why not? As long as you keep it a bit balanced it's fine. There are actually already auto-damage powers although most I've seen are triggered by being bloodied.

But I don't see what's so special that you shouldn't use it.
#6
Herrozerro
Oct 06, 2011 10:20:10
i do it all the time. last game i ran i had minions that when they died they screamed a chilling scream and everyone within 5 squares took autodamage (psychic). it wasnt being mean or anything, it actually led to interesting strategy by the players about when to kill them and where to be.

i am for anything as a dm OR as a player that makes encounters challenging, provided it has good flavor. i am more likely to use an autodamage effect than i am not to

Still a bit different then I am talking about, Aura's and triggers can be controlled or at least avoided by players,

Im talking about a monster jsut attacking with an autodamage effect.
#7
Style75
Oct 06, 2011 10:23:37
Autodamage is nothing new. Auras have been doing it since MM1.

This. At higher level play (level 15+), autodamage auras are a reliable way to seriously threaten players without using ridiculously overlevelled monsters. Minions that do autodamage on attack or death are a great way to boost encounter challenge at high level without bogging down combat.

Autodamage attacks on standard monsters are a little different. My players really don't like them (not sure why, it's really just a ranged aura) so I use them only occasionally and only when thematically appropriate for the monster.
#8
Mand12
Oct 06, 2011 10:24:29 Calculate average monster at-will DPR based on its damage entry and attack bonus from the MM3 On A Business Card and use that as your Monster Magic Missile.

It'll be balanced. Whether it's interesting or not is another question. Basically, it would lead to a more reliable surge drain in the encounter you use it in. I'm not sure that's necessarily good, but it probably isn't bad either.
#9
pluisjen
Oct 06, 2011 10:26:04 Note that you can still defend against auto-hits. It's harder, but not impossible. It still triggers mark punishment, it's still suspectible to resistance, you still have to see your target.

If you're worried about the "hard to defend against" part you can even add a custom trigger to the monster that needs to be met to use it, like "only works when close to this arcane obelisk" or something.
#10
Janx_14
Oct 06, 2011 10:28:53 Alot of wizard-like creatures in my campaign have magic missile. Its a pretty signature spell.

Just don't over-use it.
#11
manion
Oct 06, 2011 10:32:03 I'd be very hesitant to.

One of my first D&D games (as a player), had our DM use a Paladin NPC that auto knockdowned a member of our group. Just backhanded. No attack role, no save, "I didn't want to slow things down." As an isolated incident, that's fine. But it only got worse from there. I fear the slippery slope. It screams fiat antagonism.
#12
frothsof
Oct 06, 2011 10:40:08
i do it all the time. last game i ran i had minions that when they died they screamed a chilling scream and everyone within 5 squares took autodamage (psychic). it wasnt being mean or anything, it actually led to interesting strategy by the players about when to kill them and where to be.

i am for anything as a dm OR as a player that makes encounters challenging, provided it has good flavor. i am more likely to use an autodamage effect than i am not to

Still a bit different then I am talking about, Aura's and triggers can be controlled or at least avoided by players,

Im talking about a monster jsut attacking with an autodamage effect.

yes ive used that too, for example an elite with a minor action ranged autodamage effect
#13
kimby
Oct 06, 2011 11:08:06 Auto-damage is nothing new. As a DM, I would use a monster attack power that auto-damages as long as it didn't make the combat one sided against the PCs.
#14
Janx_14
Oct 06, 2011 11:16:57
Isn't any power that does half damage on a miss effectively auto-damage? Sure, its varied, but it will always do damage (unless the target has enough resistance).
#15
Scottevil912
Oct 06, 2011 11:33:02 I love auto-damage minions

Skeletal mages that cast magic missle, tons of fun!
#16
Herrozerro
Oct 06, 2011 11:33:18

Isn't any power that does half damage on a miss effectively auto-damage? Sure, its varied, but it will always do damage (unless the target has enough resistance).

Though i dont think they are prolific in Atwill powers.
#17
mvincent
Oct 06, 2011 11:43:54
what about using autodamage against players, besides the negation of their defenses does anyone see any issues with building a monster or two that deal about minion auto damage to PCs?

Assuming it's balanced, I think it's great: it speeds up the game, and keeps the attacker relevant.

#18
Seeker95
Oct 06, 2011 12:07:00
Just don't over-use it.

This.

Pretty much only this, in just about all of the things we can come up with for our games.

#19
Macabre13
Oct 06, 2011 14:04:57
Just don't over-use it.

This.

Pretty much only this, in just about all of the things we can come up with for our games.

it's true in all aspects of everything. do the right amount of everything and everything will be good.
#20
jonathan_sicari
Oct 07, 2011 7:21:07 Doesn't the Fellcourt creep or ruffian do 5 on a hit, 3 on a miss?
#21
Garthanos
Oct 08, 2011 11:12:12

Isn't any power that does half damage on a miss effectively auto-damage? Sure, its varied, but it will always do damage (unless the target has enough resistance).

Though i dont think they are prolific in Atwill powers.

I beleive I remember a knight with a power directly analogous to fighters reaping strike power.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Herrozerro Oct 06, 2011 10:13:54	We have had player based autodamage with magic missile becoming an atwill autodamaging attack it seems to be alright. But what about using autodamage against players, besides the negation of their defenses does anyone see any issues with building a monster or two that deal about minion auto damage to PCs?
#2 frothsof Oct 06, 2011 10:16:20	i do it all the time. last game i ran i had minions that when they died they screamed a chilling scream and everyone within 5 squares took autodamage (psychic). it wasnt being mean or anything, it actually led to interesting strategy by the players about when to kill them and where to be. i am for anything as a dm OR as a player that makes encounters challenging, provided it has good flavor. i am more likely to use an autodamage effect than i am not to
#3 pluisjen Oct 06, 2011 10:16:31	Autodamage is nothing new. Auras have been doing it since MM1.
#4 Herrozerro Oct 06, 2011 10:17:48	Autodamage is nothing new. Auras have been doing it since MM1. Well aura's are different, Im talking about a monstr just going: "You take 12 damage!" no rolls no nothing.
#5 pluisjen Oct 06, 2011 10:19:17	Eh, sure why not? As long as you keep it a bit balanced it's fine. There are actually already auto-damage powers although most I've seen are triggered by being bloodied. But I don't see what's so special that you shouldn't use it.
#6 Herrozerro Oct 06, 2011 10:20:10	i do it all the time. last game i ran i had minions that when they died they screamed a chilling scream and everyone within 5 squares took autodamage (psychic). it wasnt being mean or anything, it actually led to interesting strategy by the players about when to kill them and where to be. i am for anything as a dm OR as a player that makes encounters challenging, provided it has good flavor. i am more likely to use an autodamage effect than i am not to Still a bit different then I am talking about, Aura's and triggers can be controlled or at least avoided by players, Im talking about a monster jsut attacking with an autodamage effect.
#7 Style75 Oct 06, 2011 10:23:37	Autodamage is nothing new. Auras have been doing it since MM1. This. At higher level play (level 15+), autodamage auras are a reliable way to seriously threaten players without using ridiculously overlevelled monsters. Minions that do autodamage on attack or death are a great way to boost encounter challenge at high level without bogging down combat. Autodamage attacks on standard monsters are a little different. My players really don't like them (not sure why, it's really just a ranged aura) so I use them only occasionally and only when thematically appropriate for the monster.
#8 Mand12 Oct 06, 2011 10:24:29	Calculate average monster at-will DPR based on its damage entry and attack bonus from the MM3 On A Business Card and use that as your Monster Magic Missile. It'll be balanced. Whether it's interesting or not is another question. Basically, it would lead to a more reliable surge drain in the encounter you use it in. I'm not sure that's necessarily good, but it probably isn't bad either.
#9 pluisjen Oct 06, 2011 10:26:04	Note that you can still defend against auto-hits. It's harder, but not impossible. It still triggers mark punishment, it's still suspectible to resistance, you still have to see your target. If you're worried about the "hard to defend against" part you can even add a custom trigger to the monster that needs to be met to use it, like "only works when close to this arcane obelisk" or something.
#10 Janx_14 Oct 06, 2011 10:28:53	Alot of wizard-like creatures in my campaign have magic missile. Its a pretty signature spell. Just don't over-use it.
#11 manion Oct 06, 2011 10:32:03	I'd be very hesitant to. One of my first D&D games (as a player), had our DM use a Paladin NPC that auto knockdowned a member of our group. Just backhanded. No attack role, no save, "I didn't want to slow things down." As an isolated incident, that's fine. But it only got worse from there. I fear the slippery slope. It screams fiat antagonism.
#12 frothsof Oct 06, 2011 10:40:08	i do it all the time. last game i ran i had minions that when they died they screamed a chilling scream and everyone within 5 squares took autodamage (psychic). it wasnt being mean or anything, it actually led to interesting strategy by the players about when to kill them and where to be. i am for anything as a dm OR as a player that makes encounters challenging, provided it has good flavor. i am more likely to use an autodamage effect than i am not to Still a bit different then I am talking about, Aura's and triggers can be controlled or at least avoided by players, Im talking about a monster jsut attacking with an autodamage effect. yes ive used that too, for example an elite with a minor action ranged autodamage effect
#13 kimby Oct 06, 2011 11:08:06	Auto-damage is nothing new. As a DM, I would use a monster attack power that auto-damages as long as it didn't make the combat one sided against the PCs.
#14 Janx_14 Oct 06, 2011 11:16:57	Isn't any power that does half damage on a miss effectively auto-damage? Sure, its varied, but it will always do damage (unless the target has enough resistance).
#15 Scottevil912 Oct 06, 2011 11:33:02	I love auto-damage minions Skeletal mages that cast magic missle, tons of fun!
#16 Herrozerro Oct 06, 2011 11:33:18	Isn't any power that does half damage on a miss effectively auto-damage? Sure, its varied, but it will always do damage (unless the target has enough resistance). Though i dont think they are prolific in Atwill powers.
#17 mvincent Oct 06, 2011 11:43:54	what about using autodamage against players, besides the negation of their defenses does anyone see any issues with building a monster or two that deal about minion auto damage to PCs? Assuming it's balanced, I think it's great: it speeds up the game, and keeps the attacker relevant.
#18 Seeker95 Oct 06, 2011 12:07:00	Just don't over-use it. This. Pretty much only this, in just about all of the things we can come up with for our games.
#19 Macabre13 Oct 06, 2011 14:04:57	Just don't over-use it. This. Pretty much only this, in just about all of the things we can come up with for our games. it's true in all aspects of everything. do the right amount of everything and everything will be good.
#20 jonathan_sicari Oct 07, 2011 7:21:07	Doesn't the Fellcourt creep or ruffian do 5 on a hit, 3 on a miss?
#21 Garthanos Oct 08, 2011 11:12:12	Isn't any power that does half damage on a miss effectively auto-damage? Sure, its varied, but it will always do damage (unless the target has enough resistance). Though i dont think they are prolific in Atwill powers. I beleive I remember a knight with a power directly analogous to fighters reaping strike power.