Balance help? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Balance help?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Sabelkatten
Jan 07, 2010 15:16:03 Nothing to do with my earlier thread. This is about a race a made just for my own amusement. But it would be nice to get some feedback on how balanced it is.

It can be found here: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Gritaur_%284e_Race...

I tried to get the flying ability useful but not unbalancing - limiting it to a turn per encounter and less than a full day's overland movement (so that ground-based encounters are still an option). IME encounters that can be overcome simply by the application of unconventionaly movement are usually not really challenges anyway!

I'm more worried about the other racial abilities and the racial feats. I think they are resonably balanced, but I don't know if I've missed some synergy effects.

#2
xiahouxu
Jan 07, 2010 16:11:24 There are a few issues I can think just looking it over a bit...
They need an extra skill bonus.
Unusual Body shape: Should probably be dropped... Penalises the race, which is a big nono in 4th...
Sharp eyes: They already have the +2 to perception, is this needed?
Jumper: No races provide this big a bonus to any skill. Maybe roll twice when making high or long jumps, like the goliath feature?
Pinning and flyer could probably just be lost or converted to feats, really.

Take wing and wide wings: Just simplify it a bit... Make it fly your speed and must land at the end of your movement?
#3
Sabelkatten
Jan 08, 2010 9:43:56
There are a few issues I can think just looking it over a bit...
They need an extra skill bonus.

Well, I couldn't decide what skill that should be so I skipped it... Giving them a +2 to Nature is logical, I suppose.

Unusual Body shape: Should probably be dropped... Penalises the race, which is a big nono in 4th...

Small size? As far as I can figure the "nono" is that no PC race should use a special rules mechanic regularly (i.e. no large or tiny PCs, no at-will flight, no characters that can't use weapons and so on). This penalty is just a -1 to AC using captured armor. More flavor than a real penalty since I figure most PCs will have their own armor!

Sharp eyes: They already have the +2 to perception, is this needed?

They're supposed to have really good eyes. Thought if someone could think of an ability that gives a bonus to seeing things without giving just a skill bonus I'd be happy to see it.

Jumper: No races provide this big a bonus to any skill. Maybe roll twice when making high or long jumps, like the goliath feature?

It's only for long jumps. IMHO that bonus needs to be pretty large to be worth bothering with at all - I mean, jump 15 or 17 feet. how much of a difference is that? Thought I could change it to roll twice instead.

Pinning and flyer could probably just be lost or converted to feats, really.

Pinning is a bit minor to cost a whole feat, isn't it? They already have claws capable of gripping. so the ability seems logical. Flyer is a penalty that I think is needed for a race with overland flight ability. If they only need to land when making camp, how do you spring a random encounter on 'em?

Take wing and wide wings: Just simplify it a bit... Make it fly your speed and must land at the end of your movement?

Hmm... I'll think about it. I wanted them faster in the air than on the ground, and I wanted it hard to fly indoors or underground.
#4
adun_irving
Jan 08, 2010 10:11:45 With all the mobility and the fact that they're Medium, this means that their upper torsos are probably smaller than a normal human's. Perhaps they can't wield two-handed weapons, due to their light bone structure built for flight?

After all, a racial power that allows you to fly could circumvent a number of problems. A flying greataxe charge to the top of a castle rampart is cinematically impressive, but it might be a tad overpowered. Now, a flying battleaxe charge should be fine.
#5
Sabelkatten
Jan 09, 2010 6:34:07
With all the mobility and the fact that they're Medium, this means that their upper torsos are probably smaller than a normal human's. Perhaps they can't wield two-handed weapons, due to their light bone structure built for flight?

After all, a racial power that allows you to fly could circumvent a number of problems. A flying greataxe charge to the top of a castle rampart is cinematically impressive, but it might be a tad overpowered. Now, a flying battleaxe charge should be fine.

There shouldn't be any problems with two-handed weapon (I mean, they still have two hands!), but if they turn out to be overpowered a weapon limit comparable to that for small creatures could be added. OTOH a solo charge against a defended wall sounds more like an impressive way of commiting suicide than a gamebreaking power...

Honestly I don't think that's much of a problem, thought. I mean, a level 1 Eladrin could charge to the top of many walls as well, as can a Warlock or Sorcerer at fairly low level.

But about the high movement (the flying movement is - at best, with a feat - 2 turns per encounter) doesn't seem very unbalanced to me, at least from the games I've played. Usually shifting is a lot more important than straight-out movement because there tends to be an enemy standing in the no matter how you move! A Kobold PC looks even scarier from a mobility perspective (shift 1 as a minor action!).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sabelkatten Jan 07, 2010 15:16:03	Nothing to do with my earlier thread. This is about a race a made just for my own amusement. But it would be nice to get some feedback on how balanced it is. It can be found here: www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Gritaur_%284e_Race... I tried to get the flying ability useful but not unbalancing - limiting it to a turn per encounter and less than a full day's overland movement (so that ground-based encounters are still an option). IME encounters that can be overcome simply by the application of unconventionaly movement are usually not really challenges anyway! I'm more worried about the other racial abilities and the racial feats. I think they are resonably balanced, but I don't know if I've missed some synergy effects.
#2 xiahouxu Jan 07, 2010 16:11:24	There are a few issues I can think just looking it over a bit... They need an extra skill bonus. Unusual Body shape: Should probably be dropped... Penalises the race, which is a big nono in 4th... Sharp eyes: They already have the +2 to perception, is this needed? Jumper: No races provide this big a bonus to any skill. Maybe roll twice when making high or long jumps, like the goliath feature? Pinning and flyer could probably just be lost or converted to feats, really. Take wing and wide wings: Just simplify it a bit... Make it fly your speed and must land at the end of your movement?
#3 Sabelkatten Jan 08, 2010 9:43:56	There are a few issues I can think just looking it over a bit... They need an extra skill bonus. Well, I couldn't decide what skill that should be so I skipped it... Giving them a +2 to Nature is logical, I suppose. Unusual Body shape: Should probably be dropped... Penalises the race, which is a big nono in 4th... Small size? As far as I can figure the "nono" is that no PC race should use a special rules mechanic regularly (i.e. no large or tiny PCs, no at-will flight, no characters that can't use weapons and so on). This penalty is just a -1 to AC using captured armor. More flavor than a real penalty since I figure most PCs will have their own armor! Sharp eyes: They already have the +2 to perception, is this needed? They're supposed to have really good eyes. Thought if someone could think of an ability that gives a bonus to seeing things without giving just a skill bonus I'd be happy to see it. Jumper: No races provide this big a bonus to any skill. Maybe roll twice when making high or long jumps, like the goliath feature? It's only for long jumps. IMHO that bonus needs to be pretty large to be worth bothering with at all - I mean, jump 15 or 17 feet. how much of a difference is that? Thought I could change it to roll twice instead. Pinning and flyer could probably just be lost or converted to feats, really. Pinning is a bit minor to cost a whole feat, isn't it? They already have claws capable of gripping. so the ability seems logical. Flyer is a penalty that I think is needed for a race with overland flight ability. If they only need to land when making camp, how do you spring a random encounter on 'em? Take wing and wide wings: Just simplify it a bit... Make it fly your speed and must land at the end of your movement? Hmm... I'll think about it. I wanted them faster in the air than on the ground, and I wanted it hard to fly indoors or underground.
#4 adun_irving Jan 08, 2010 10:11:45	With all the mobility and the fact that they're Medium, this means that their upper torsos are probably smaller than a normal human's. Perhaps they can't wield two-handed weapons, due to their light bone structure built for flight? After all, a racial power that allows you to fly could circumvent a number of problems. A flying greataxe charge to the top of a castle rampart is cinematically impressive, but it might be a tad overpowered. Now, a flying battleaxe charge should be fine.
#5 Sabelkatten Jan 09, 2010 6:34:07	With all the mobility and the fact that they're Medium, this means that their upper torsos are probably smaller than a normal human's. Perhaps they can't wield two-handed weapons, due to their light bone structure built for flight? After all, a racial power that allows you to fly could circumvent a number of problems. A flying greataxe charge to the top of a castle rampart is cinematically impressive, but it might be a tad overpowered. Now, a flying battleaxe charge should be fine. There shouldn't be any problems with two-handed weapon (I mean, they still have two hands!), but if they turn out to be overpowered a weapon limit comparable to that for small creatures could be added. OTOH a solo charge against a defended wall sounds more like an impressive way of commiting suicide than a gamebreaking power... Honestly I don't think that's much of a problem, thought. I mean, a level 1 Eladrin could charge to the top of many walls as well, as can a Warlock or Sorcerer at fairly low level. But about the high movement (the flying movement is - at best, with a feat - 2 turns per encounter) doesn't seem very unbalanced to me, at least from the games I've played. Usually shifting is a lot more important than straight-out movement because there tends to be an enemy standing in the no matter how you move! A Kobold PC looks even scarier from a mobility perspective (shift 1 as a minor action!).