Barbarian Multiclass Feat - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Barbarian Multiclass Feat

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Lord_Ventnor
Oct 07, 2008 14:57:08 I would imagine it would look something like this...

#2
tiwaztyrsfist
Oct 07, 2008 15:27:09 Looks good to me.
#3
Crimson_Concerto
Oct 08, 2008 1:30:36 I can't shake the feeling that I don't like it because it allows multiclass characters to do something Barbarians themselves cannot. More specifically, for a Barbarian, that ability is restricted to when he uses a Barbarian attack power. Your multiclass feat would allow it to be used with any melee attack power, including a Basic Melee Attack (yes, it counts as a power), which is very problematic when we throw Opportunity Attacks and Warlords into the equation...

The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any Barbarian features right now which don't depend on something the Barbarian has exclusively, so my recommendation is to simply have the feat grant a character one of the Barbarian's At-Will powers as an encounter power, kind of like the Warlock or Wizard multiclass feats do it...
#4
sphyre
Oct 08, 2008 23:51:43 To alleviate the problem that Crimson_Concerto said, but keeping the same you could make it allow you to make a basic melee attack as a minor action, as long as it's made before the end of your turn. This makes it so it can never be granted from an opportunity attack, even with heavy blade opportunity or similar ability.

Unfortunately 1/encounter is pretty much like the 1/round restriction that the barbarian has due to the likeliness of two crits in the same encounter. Sure it happens, but not enough to make it a weaker version of the barbarian's class feature. The minor action I proposed does sort of nerf it though.

With this, I do see a daggermaster rogue considering this feat to increase crits even more.
#5
rikiji
Oct 09, 2008 14:06:45 The feat looks good to me. I'd handle CCs issues by changing the barbarian class feature to match - it's a playtest version after all. I might specify a melee attack power with the weapon keyword.

The 1/round - 1/encounter is fine ... it's in line with other multiclass feats.
#6
dogbackward
Oct 09, 2008 15:04:13 The idea behind the 1/encounter problem was that it only triggers on a critical hit. Which I've only ever seen happen more than once in an encounter one time. The point was that since crits happen rarely, limiting it to once per encounter really isn't a big deal, since it's not likely for you to get more than one crit per encounter.

Still, though, I don't think it's that big a deal anyway. It's not really any weaker than the full version, but that's not really a problem, since it's also not amazingly powerful; nifty to have, yeah, but nothing to kill for. I still wouldn't give it 1/round, just in case, but 1/encounter is fine.

There is a problem with allowing it to work with OpAttacks and the like, though. Just change the wording to "When you score a critical hit on your turn", and that's fixed without the akwardness of minor-actioning it.
#7
Lord_Ventnor
Oct 09, 2008 22:50:53 Rampage-ish feature reworded a bit. Only works on PC's turn.
#8
karldark_dup
Oct 10, 2008 5:00:29 That feat seems reasonable. What about something based on the feral might class feature instead? Like Once per encounter when you reduce an enemy to 0 hit points or fewer Charge an enemy or Gain temporary hit points equal to con (but obviously not both) I'd like to see MC feat tree for each tier so each time you go up a teir you dedicate more time learning about that particular class thus getting more of it's features.
#9
elven_swordsmen
Oct 10, 2008 8:25:30
I can't shake the feeling that I don't like it because it allows multiclass characters to do something Barbarians themselves cannot. More specifically, for a Barbarian, that ability is restricted to when he uses a Barbarian attack power. Your multiclass feat would allow it to be used with any melee attack power, including a Basic Melee Attack (yes, it counts as a power), which is very problematic when we throw Opportunity Attacks and Warlords into the equation...

The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any Barbarian features right now which don't depend on something the Barbarian has exclusively, so my recommendation is to simply have the feat grant a character one of the Barbarian's At-Will powers as an encounter power, kind of like the Warlock or Wizard multiclass feats do it...

QFT. This reminds me of your criticism of Rikiji's Multiclassing Patch (amusingly, he has also responded to this thread). I also really don't like the idea of multiclassing offering an ability to multiclassed characters that one couldn't get by actually being that class. However, the Barbarian has a bit of a problem in that his at-will powers have Rage contingencies which wouldn't make sense for an initiate multiclass character who doesn't have any Rages. Perhaps offering a 1/enc Rage Strike without needing to meet the requirements *shrug*.

As a sidenote, I'm confused about what happens to the at-will-turned-encounter powers that several initiate feats grant when one goes Paragon MC. Warlock is the best example: you get your pact at-will as an encounter power, but when you go Paragon you can trade an at-will for that same power...so, you'd have the same power twice!! Wtf...

Cheers,

Kyle
#10
rikiji
Oct 10, 2008 14:22:15
QFT. This reminds me of your criticism of Rikiji's Multiclassing Patch (amusingly, he has also responded to this thread). I also really don't like the idea of multiclassing offering an ability to multiclassed characters that one couldn't get by actually being that class. However, the Barbarian has a bit of a problem in that his at-will powers have Rage contingencies which wouldn't make sense for an initiate multiclass character who doesn't have any Rages. Perhaps offering a 1/enc Rage Strike without needing to meet the requirements *shrug*.

As a sidenote, I'm confused about what happens to the at-will-turned-encounter powers that several initiate feats grant when one goes Paragon MC. Warlock is the best example: you get your pact at-will as an encounter power, but when you go Paragon you can trade an at-will for that same power...so, you'd have the same power twice!! Wtf...

Cheers,

Kyle

I try really hard to post in all the multiclass threads. Interestingly, I revamped several of the abilities in my multiclass patch based on CCs critique (even after I said I wouldn't - I just figured out a better way of doing the Rogue's action point ability and it snowballed).

The at-will powers do have rage continencies, but even without the contingency they're better than any other at-will attack powers. Losing the contingency isn't that bad, and isn't any different than, say, a Starlock taking an Infernal pact power. It's still good, just not as good. Still, gaining a 1/ encounter at-will attack doesn't really feel right for a melee focused character (it works for Wizards and Warlocks because the powers are spells and have a different feel).

On your sidenote, they remain encounter powers. I suppose you could take the same power again when you PMC, but there's no reason to - even PMC Warlock will allow you to pick any of the at-will powers available to your class (I would recommend Eldritch Blast for the PMC, it's more tactically versatile than the pact-specific powers).

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lord_Ventnor Oct 07, 2008 14:57:08	I would imagine it would look something like this...
#2 tiwaztyrsfist Oct 07, 2008 15:27:09	Looks good to me.
#3 Crimson_Concerto Oct 08, 2008 1:30:36	I can't shake the feeling that I don't like it because it allows multiclass characters to do something Barbarians themselves cannot. More specifically, for a Barbarian, that ability is restricted to when he uses a Barbarian attack power. Your multiclass feat would allow it to be used with any melee attack power, including a Basic Melee Attack (yes, it counts as a power), which is very problematic when we throw Opportunity Attacks and Warlords into the equation... The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any Barbarian features right now which don't depend on something the Barbarian has exclusively, so my recommendation is to simply have the feat grant a character one of the Barbarian's At-Will powers as an encounter power, kind of like the Warlock or Wizard multiclass feats do it...
#4 sphyre Oct 08, 2008 23:51:43	To alleviate the problem that Crimson_Concerto said, but keeping the same you could make it allow you to make a basic melee attack as a minor action, as long as it's made before the end of your turn. This makes it so it can never be granted from an opportunity attack, even with heavy blade opportunity or similar ability. Unfortunately 1/encounter is pretty much like the 1/round restriction that the barbarian has due to the likeliness of two crits in the same encounter. Sure it happens, but not enough to make it a weaker version of the barbarian's class feature. The minor action I proposed does sort of nerf it though. With this, I do see a daggermaster rogue considering this feat to increase crits even more.
#5 rikiji Oct 09, 2008 14:06:45	The feat looks good to me. I'd handle CCs issues by changing the barbarian class feature to match - it's a playtest version after all. I might specify a melee attack power with the weapon keyword. The 1/round - 1/encounter is fine ... it's in line with other multiclass feats.
#6 dogbackward Oct 09, 2008 15:04:13	The idea behind the 1/encounter problem was that it only triggers on a critical hit. Which I've only ever seen happen more than once in an encounter one time. The point was that since crits happen rarely, limiting it to once per encounter really isn't a big deal, since it's not likely for you to get more than one crit per encounter. Still, though, I don't think it's that big a deal anyway. It's not really any weaker than the full version, but that's not really a problem, since it's also not amazingly powerful; nifty to have, yeah, but nothing to kill for. I still wouldn't give it 1/round, just in case, but 1/encounter is fine. There is a problem with allowing it to work with OpAttacks and the like, though. Just change the wording to "When you score a critical hit on your turn", and that's fixed without the akwardness of minor-actioning it.
#7 Lord_Ventnor Oct 09, 2008 22:50:53	Rampage-ish feature reworded a bit. Only works on PC's turn.
#8 karldark_dup Oct 10, 2008 5:00:29	That feat seems reasonable. What about something based on the feral might class feature instead? Like Once per encounter when you reduce an enemy to 0 hit points or fewer Charge an enemy or Gain temporary hit points equal to con (but obviously not both) I'd like to see MC feat tree for each tier so each time you go up a teir you dedicate more time learning about that particular class thus getting more of it's features.
#9 elven_swordsmen Oct 10, 2008 8:25:30	I can't shake the feeling that I don't like it because it allows multiclass characters to do something Barbarians themselves cannot. More specifically, for a Barbarian, that ability is restricted to when he uses a Barbarian attack power. Your multiclass feat would allow it to be used with any melee attack power, including a Basic Melee Attack (yes, it counts as a power), which is very problematic when we throw Opportunity Attacks and Warlords into the equation... The problem is that there doesn't appear to be any Barbarian features right now which don't depend on something the Barbarian has exclusively, so my recommendation is to simply have the feat grant a character one of the Barbarian's At-Will powers as an encounter power, kind of like the Warlock or Wizard multiclass feats do it... QFT. This reminds me of your criticism of Rikiji's Multiclassing Patch (amusingly, he has also responded to this thread). I also really don't like the idea of multiclassing offering an ability to multiclassed characters that one couldn't get by actually being that class. However, the Barbarian has a bit of a problem in that his at-will powers have Rage contingencies which wouldn't make sense for an initiate multiclass character who doesn't have any Rages. Perhaps offering a 1/enc Rage Strike without needing to meet the requirements shrug. As a sidenote, I'm confused about what happens to the at-will-turned-encounter powers that several initiate feats grant when one goes Paragon MC. Warlock is the best example: you get your pact at-will as an encounter power, but when you go Paragon you can trade an at-will for that same power...so, you'd have the same power twice!! Wtf... Cheers, Kyle
#10 rikiji Oct 10, 2008 14:22:15	QFT. This reminds me of your criticism of Rikiji's Multiclassing Patch (amusingly, he has also responded to this thread). I also really don't like the idea of multiclassing offering an ability to multiclassed characters that one couldn't get by actually being that class. However, the Barbarian has a bit of a problem in that his at-will powers have Rage contingencies which wouldn't make sense for an initiate multiclass character who doesn't have any Rages. Perhaps offering a 1/enc Rage Strike without needing to meet the requirements shrug. As a sidenote, I'm confused about what happens to the at-will-turned-encounter powers that several initiate feats grant when one goes Paragon MC. Warlock is the best example: you get your pact at-will as an encounter power, but when you go Paragon you can trade an at-will for that same power...so, you'd have the same power twice!! Wtf... Cheers, Kyle I try really hard to post in all the multiclass threads. Interestingly, I revamped several of the abilities in my multiclass patch based on CCs critique (even after I said I wouldn't - I just figured out a better way of doing the Rogue's action point ability and it snowballed). The at-will powers do have rage continencies, but even without the contingency they're better than any other at-will attack powers. Losing the contingency isn't that bad, and isn't any different than, say, a Starlock taking an Infernal pact power. It's still good, just not as good. Still, gaining a 1/ encounter at-will attack doesn't really feel right for a melee focused character (it works for Wizards and Warlocks because the powers are spells and have a different feel). On your sidenote, they remain encounter powers. I suppose you could take the same power again when you PMC, but there's no reason to - even PMC Warlock will allow you to pick any of the at-will powers available to your class (I would recommend Eldritch Blast for the PMC, it's more tactically versatile than the pact-specific powers).