I am working on the creation of bestial class builds for other existing classes and guidelines for building others. I actually have nice writeups in several cases, but don't want to post until I have something more closely resembling a finished product. In the meantime, though, I need a bit of help with balancing class features.
Here are the steps for taking another ranger build and changing it into a Beastmaster Ranger build:
- Remove: Prime Shot and Fighting Style class features
- Add: Beast Mastery class feature (except the augment of Hunter's Quarry, listed separately)
- Augment: Hunter's Quarry class feature
In short, you trade two class features for expanded Beast Mastery, which augments one of your remaining features. To create a bestial build for another class, you should make the following changes:
- Remove: class features which are equivalent in value to Prime Shot and Fighting Style
- Add: Beast Mastery class feature
- Augment: a remaining class feature, balancing the augment against the ranger' augment to Hunter's Quarry
Beast Pact Warlock
For example, the Beast Pact Warlock was created by applying the following changes, then writing it up in the same format as existing pacts:
- Remove: Prime Shot and Pact Boon class features
- Add: Beast Mastery class feature (except the augment of Hunter's Quarry)
- Augment: Warlock's Curse class feature (you can curse enemies near your beast and your beast can do your curse damage, but only one of you can deal this extra damage per round)
The Prime Shot class feature is just like the ranger's, so no problem there. We have to draw a comparison between Pact Boon and Fighting Style; they feel about equal to me. The augment of Warlock's Curse is almost identical to the augment of Hunter's Quarry, so that doesn't seem like a problem either. All in all, the warlock bestial build goes pretty smoothly. Sanity checks are appreciated, but I'm fairly confident.
[b]Beastbound Rogue[/b]
The rogue also goes easily. There's a pattern here of strikers converting easily due to the augment being fairly easy to work out.
- Remove: Rogue Tactics and Rogue Weapon Talent class features
- Add: Beast Mastery class feature (except the augment of Hunter's Quarry)
- Augment: Sneak Attack class feature (your beast can do your sneak attack damage, but only one of you can deal this extra damage per round)
[b]Bestial Warlord[/b]
This is where it starts to get questionable. There was no augment that made sense, so instead I added a new Commanding Presence variant. I beg PEACHes of you.
- Remove: Combat Leader and Commanding Presence class features
- Add: Beast Mastery class feature (except the augment of Hunter's Quarry)
- Add: Bestial Presence class feature (When an ally who can see you spends an action point to take an extra action, your beast can take a standard action before or after the extra action.)
[b] Savage Fighter[/b]
Rounding out our martial classes, we have another somewhat questionable build because I couldn't find an augment that made sense. Again with the PEACHes, please!
- Remove: Combat Superiority and Fighter Weapon Talent class features
- Add: Beast Mastery class feature (except the augment of Hunter's Quarry)
- Add: Savage Challenge class feature (Your beast gains the Combat Challenge fighter class feature.)
[b] Familiar Wizard[/b]
Venturing back into the arcane classes, we have our most questionable build yet. Not only was an obvious augment unclear, but the cost being paid to lost class features seemed quite high. I tried to balance that with a pretty hefty benefit, but possibly went too far. Please PEACH this, I'm open to completely alternative implementations.
- Remove: Implement Mastery and Cantrips class features
- Add: Beast Mastery class feature (except the augment of Hunter's Quarry)
- Add: Familiar of Secrets class feature (Once per day, as a free action, you can trade one daily spell you have prepared for another daily spell of that level or lower in your spellbook.)
I'm half inclined to not worry about this one so much because something like it is likely to appear in Arcane Power.
Stumped: Visited Cleric and Companioned Paladin
The divine classes I am unsure where to go with. The class structures do not loan themselves to conversion using my formula. If anyone has suggestions, I am open to them.
If they get written off, that's okay, because I think the concepts are not as compelling as some of the others. I'd also have to come up with a bunch of bestial prayers, and coming up with sufficient spells and exploits is proving enough of a challenge.
What I would do is wait for the possibility of seeing more beast builds for other classes fom Wizards, and in the mean time implement a much simpler system, like branching feats for any character to take. After all, a sneaky rat, a cleric's dove, or a wizard's familiar are not likely to have the same combat potential that a ranger's bear or wolf beast would, so they can be mostly rp'd in with much simpler rules to allow for some mechanical usage.
Your ideas make logical sense, but trying to have a beast build for every class that's equivalent to the beastmaster ranger would be a HUGE amount of work.
I hear ya. It's probably not worth doing much work with arcane classes until Arcane Power is out, and the divine classes are a bit awkward thematically anyway. If I stick with the martial classes, I can pretty much reuse the Beast powers from the ranger (unless they reference Hunter's Quarry) to avoid the massive workload you quite rightly pointed out.
What I would do is wait for the possibility of seeing more beast builds for other classes fom Wizards, and in the mean time implement a much simpler system, like branching feats for any character to take. After all, a sneaky rat, a cleric's dove, or a wizard's familiar are not likely to have the same combat potential that a ranger's bear or wolf beast would, so they can be mostly rp'd in with much simpler rules to allow for some mechanical usage.
My hesitation with a feat-based system is that I don't like to reinvent the wheel. WotC has now published a take on animal companions that they consider balanced; if I work it the same way, I can get that balance for free.
It seems to me in most cases it would be easier to start as a ranger and multiclass. You gain almost the same degree of flexibility, but don't have to build and balance multiple power lists from scratch.
Yeah, the problem is I want a sorcerous character with sneak attack damage and a familiar. No way to get there using beastmaster ranger as the base class.
Yeah, the problem is I want a sorcerous character with sneak attack damage and a familiar. No way to get there using beastmaster ranger as the base class.
Rangers already get Hunter's Quarry ... add in Warlock multiclass and there you go. The rest is just flavor.
That said, the beastmaster rules aren't really for familiars anyways - they're for combat capable companions. Familiars generally don't fight so I'd use a feat based system for them. If you want some combat capabilities, I suppose you could do a multiclass variant like the weapon mastery rules they had in Dragon a couple of issues back (the gladiator article).
Rangers already get Hunter's Quarry ... add in Warlock multiclass and there you go. The rest is just flavor.
By golly, I think that's it! I hadn't considered using Hunter's Quarry mechanics with Sneak Attack fluff. Refluff over recrunch for the win!
That said, the beastmaster rules aren't really for familiars anyways - they're for combat capable companions.
Which is actually what I was looking for, the word "familiar" was just fluff. Your recommendation quite suits me. Thanks!
- Fey Beast feat for free
- Only Fey Pact powers
- Allow every beast power from the ranger
- Change all Wis bonuses of ranger powers to Cha,
It's actually a dual class, but it's limited enough, MAD enough and flavorful enough for me to allow it. After all you're dual nature doesn't let you be good at two things. You're just a Striker with two power sources (which however due to the fey thing is limited).
My
It's also perfect for elves and eladrins of course.
The Warlock thing is perfect, I would allow it in my game like this.
...snip...
It's also perfect for elves and eladrins of course.
Make sure to check the Beast Pack Warlock thread, because it has a more complete writeup including powers. I actually implemented it as an alternative pact, though I can see your combined-with-fey approach as well.
Make sure to check the Beast Pack Warlock thread, because it has a more complete writeup including powers. I actually implemented it as an alternative pact, though I can see your combined-with-fey approach as well.
Odin's swifin' balls! :D You worked on it! I find myself very lazy when it comes to class power design, so I always praise who takes the time to build these projects. Warlock pacts are easier to develop but two powers per level is always an enormous task.
I'd like to correct my aim with the fey-lock/beastmaster. In order for it to stay viable and at the same time more correct flavor-wise, I would not allow weapon powers. Although elves with Pact Bows would love the thing, and dual-wielding something with a Pact Blade or Sword sounds appealing too. For those things, take the multiclass feats. The option shall only give truly Beast powers, those that don't include weapon attacks.
P.S.: To be clear, at first level your only choice is Predator Strike. I'd let one choose then between Eyebite and Eldritch Blast, and humans would take both. And to be more fair, Wis bonuses should be substituted with Int, not Cha which is a Primary stat.
EDIT: there are too few Beast powers that don't include a weapon roll... Another balancing factor should be found? Maybe special effects referring to your quarry are unusable (unless you take the ranger multiclass feat). Another good thing would be limiting beast selection, to make power-selection more restricted. Sorry for the too many edits, happens when you write things without opening the book...
Odin's swifin' balls! :D You worked on it! I find myself very lazy when it comes to class power design, so I always praise who takes the time to build these projects. Warlock pacts are easier to develop but two powers per level is always an enormous task.
Cheers!
I'd like to correct my aim with the fey-lock/beastmaster. In order for it to stay viable and at the same time more correct flavor-wise, I would not allow weapon powers. Although elves with Pact Bows would love the thing, and dual-wielding something with a Pact Blade or Sword sounds appealing too. For those things, take the multiclass feats. The option shall only give truly Beast powers, those that don't include weapon attacks.
P.S.: To be clear, at first level your only choice is Predator Strike. I'd let one choose then between Eyebite and Eldritch Blast, and humans would take both. And to be more fair, Wis bonuses should be substituted with Int, not Cha which is a Primary stat.
EDIT: there are too few Beast powers that don't include a weapon roll... Another balancing factor should be found? Maybe special effects referring to your quarry are unusable (unless you take the ranger multiclass feat). Another good thing would be limiting beast selection, to make power-selection more restricted. Sorry for the too many edits, happens when you write things without opening the book...
As far as power design, I took similar steps getting to the Beast Pact Warlock. I took the heroic ranger powers with the beast keyword, removed anything referring to Hunter's Quarry, then reflavored (actually, I reworked some of the HQ powers to work with Warlock's curse as well). That provided a base, but it felt a little too "carbon copy" to me, so I then used that base as a balance reference when designing new powers. Some I got by flavoring more heavily then modifying crunch by reference to more traditional warlock powers. Some were from whole cloth, or modified from powers from other classes.
I chose to write it up as a pact in order to vary as little as possible from design structures already released by WotC. You'll have to be more careful with a "familiar in addition to a pact" approach; balance will be more troublesome. More options with no cost raises an eyebrow.
I also recommend completing the design earlier rather than ad-hoc as the player advances. That way, you are considering the design issues outside of the context of a specific player or character and no one will whine to you ;)
Either way you decide to go, please keep me in the loop by posting here. The BPW is complete except for paragon and epic powers; if you go to the effort of determining which ranger powers are translatable, I'd love to see that list. Even without the reflavor/recrunch phase I went through for the heroic powers, it would save me a step!