Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Dunaria Jun 06, 2010 18:34:01	There is the point alot of poeple told me don't bother to create a beastmaster ( BM ), cause:  As striker It's underpower as  a twin strike ranger  Beast damage scales horribly compared to that of a Ranger, and his accuracy will likely be behind as well.  Two creatures has to share the same initiative and action in a round.  Lack of good at-will  You will mostly let your pet doing noting and play ranger only In respect to balance those Issue : both creature could attack in same round. Something like  Twin Strike. If a ranger can hit by hisself 2 time in a round.  Two Creatures should be able to do that on a At-will basis, There is my Suggestion Team Strike You   command your beast companion to attack same opponent,  If your  beast attack doesn't kill it, your attack might. At-Will      Beast, Martial, Weapon Standard   Action      Melee weapon (beast 1) Melee Weapon or Range weapon (Ranger) Target:  One creature First Version with bonus damage and penalty roll Primary Attack: Beast’s  attack bonus vs. AC Hit: 1[b] + beast’s  Strength modifier damage.  Your beat take a –2 penalty to attack  rolls. Effect: You  make a secondary attack against  the target. Secondary  Attack:  Strength vs. AC Dexterity vs. AC Hit:You take a –2 penalty to attack  rolls. 1[W]  +Strength modifier damage or 1 [W] +Dexterity modifier damage.
#2 urpriest Jun 06, 2010 20:29:29	Any reason it's melee-specific? Aren't ranged beastmasters also a supported build?
#3 Dunaria Jun 06, 2010 20:32:20	Any reason it's melee-specific? Aren't ranged beastmasters also a supported build? The beast can do melee only, but for the Hunter part it, It maybe need  a update .
#4 mplindustries Jun 07, 2010 7:55:56	Wouldn't it be a lot easier if the beast damage just scaled better? Like, everytime you see a [b] in a power, actually treat it as a [W].  That way, it scales exactly with Ranger damage.  I'd do the same with attack bonus, personally.  That way, the Beast attacks, but the math behind it uses the Ranger's stats.
#5 greatfrito Jun 07, 2010 14:19:13	Wouldn't it be a lot easier if the beast damage just scaled better? Like, everytime you see a [b] in a power, actually treat it as a [W].  That way, it scales exactly with Ranger damage.  I'd do the same with attack bonus, personally.  That way, the Beast attacks, but the math behind it uses the Ranger's stats. This is what I would prefer, as well.  Though I would treat each beast as a "weapon equivalent" - y'know, with a "proficiency", a damage die, and some "beast properties".  That way, each [b] would really just be a specific type of weapon being applied.
#6 Dunaria Jun 07, 2010 17:23:50	beast  have different B damage   ie. Bear is 1D12 damage. and cat is 1d6
#7 Bandikoot Jun 08, 2010 0:12:26	I would say your first version without a penalty to attack rolls would make a good 1st level encounter power.  The second, with no bonus no penalty, seems fine to me as an at-will power and is certainly akin to twin strike.
#8 kamakiri Jun 08, 2010 6:02:32	What I use in my beastmaster is much like the second version. Except that I call it "Circling Strike" (revamp), the ranger can only use melee and the beast can shift before or after it attacks. Of course, since it's a "revamp" of Circling Strike, all the feats that apply to it apply to this power. Considering the ranged part of your power, the second version seams fine (I would make the beast attack first though - its a flavour thing). I've been using mine for a while and it works fine so don't worry about using it (although for a ranged ranger without a raptor it would be hard to use this power sometimes, but that's only natural).
#9 stargazer_dragon Jun 10, 2010 18:16:12	never thought much about it but yea definatly a good idea
#10 babyj Jun 11, 2010 13:14:46	one thing to remember about RAW beastmaster rangers...is that having a beast allows you to flank more often, and to attack from afar with little or no risk to yourself. and that attack from your beast is melee (so it threatens opp. atks. as well). also you can direct a beast to give your allies flanking too. additionally, crowding the battlefield can make for a more complicated battlefield for foes to escape. there may be other benefits i haven't noticed with this build, but yea i see those as certainly valuable boons for bm rangers to take into consideration. on their own, none of these benefits are enough to bring the at-wills for the bm ranger on par with twin strike. but when combined, these things even them out in my opinion; albeit in a different way that is less striker-y but more diverse (which is the idea with that build as far as i can tell..)
#11 bamms34 Aug 23, 2010 13:11:39	I know no one has posted to this thread in a while, but I've been playing a BM ranger for about a year (it was actually a BM Ranger/Barbarian Hybrid. My DM and I worked out stripping Synchronized Strike of its damage modifiers and making my attack v. AC, and making it an At-Will power. Since then we have also re-vamped Throw and Stab to turn it into what Fetch should have been - a BM At-Will power that both you and the beast could attack from. It's something like this: Fetch Standard Action At-Will Target: One Creature Range: Ranged Weapon (Thrown) You must be wielding a thrown weapon Hit: 1(W) Damage Effect: Your beast companion charges the target and makes a melee basic attack. If your Beast companion cannot charge the target, this attack is lost. The Throw and Stab errata back in May got me thinking about it. Since a Beast can't charge-spam, there is no additional damage that can be applied outside of HQ damage, which you will have likely applied with the thrown weapon hit.
#12 iteide Aug 23, 2010 17:48:27	Team Strike You   command your beast companion to attack same opponent,  If your  beast attack doesn't kill it, your attack might. At-Will      Beast, Martial, Weapon Standard   Action      Melee weapon (beast 1) Melee Weapon or Range weapon (Ranger) Target:  One creature First Version with bonus damage and penalty roll Primary Attack: Beast’s  attack bonus vs. AC Hit: 1[b] + beast’s  Strength modifier damage.  Your beast take a –2 penalty to attack  rolls. Effect: You  make a secondary attack against  the target. Secondary  Attack:  Strength vs. AC Dexterity vs. AC Hit:You take a –2 penalty to attack  rolls. 1[W]  +Strength modifier damage or 1 [W] +Dexterity modifier damage.
#13 Timmeh Aug 26, 2010 9:44:08	What I'm going to do for my upcoming campaign is just remove hunter's quarry and have the beast be fully independant, and see how that works out.
#14 Sabelkatten Aug 26, 2010 13:15:11	What I'm going to do for my upcoming campaign is just remove hunter's quarry and have the beast be fully independant, and see how that works out. I suspect that might just be a little overpowered... I'm quite sure the beast will average more damage than the extra die from hunter's quarry! A small reduction of the beast's attack bonus and/or damage ought to fix that, thought.
#15 Timmeh Aug 27, 2010 10:04:22	Actually; I estimated that Hunter's Quarry would be equal or greater than the beast at Heroic and Paragon and equal or poorer at Epic. Would this be a bad assumption? Assume that the beastmaster doesn't gain any other class features from losing hunter's quarry, and that feats/beast attack powers may be changed. Heroic Beast does (1d6 to 1d12) + (3 to 4) damage somewhere between 40-60% of the time vs. 1d6 damage on a ranger hit, which is somewhere between a 40-60% chance for each attack. So around 60-85% chance of the 1d6 from hunters quarry if you're using a double attack. Paragon Beast does (1d6 to 1d12) + (4 to 5) damage somewhere between 40-60% of the time vs. 2d6 damage on a ranger hit (40-60% for a 1 attack and 60-80% for a double attack). Epic Beast does (2d6 to 2d12) + (5-6) damage somewhere between 40-60% of the time vs. 3d6 damage from hunter's quarry on a ranger hit (again, 40-60 or 60-80). I also assume that the beastmaster ranger is already slightly underpowered. I realize that the beast may be bumping up the damage output overall, but I'm thinking that the amount of damage isn't going to be so much that it is overpowered when coupled with the control abilities. Are my assumptions correct, or have I missed something?
#16 bamms34 Sep 15, 2010 14:54:47	How's about making your BM character spend a feat to take the following, Ala Staggering Strike or Hobbling Strike: Beast Strike: Give up 1 dice of HQ damage for your Beast to make a MBA against your quarry. This would at least give your ranger the option of either applying the damage (say if the beast is unavailable in combat) or letting the beast attack. There is the risk/reward of gaining upgraded dice (assuming you don't take Lethal Hunter or are toting around a bear companion) and modifier damage over losing HQ damage completely at heroic.
#17 Dunaria Sep 21, 2010 17:20:43	How's about making your BM character spend a feat to take the following, Ala Staggering Strike or Hobbling Strike: Beast Strike: Give up 1 dice of HQ damage for your Beast to make a MBA against your quarry. This would at least give your ranger the option of either applying the damage (say if the beast is unavailable in combat) or letting the beast attack. There is the risk/reward of gaining upgraded dice (assuming you don't take Lethal Hunter or are toting around a bear companion) and modifier damage over losing HQ damage completely at heroic. what do you means by HQ ?
#18 Sabelkatten Sep 22, 2010 4:15:21	what do you means by HQ ? That would be "Hunters Quarry". ;)
#19 Dunaria Sep 22, 2010 5:26:23	hunter quarry is  1d6 or 1D8 ( with feat ) . Why you would give up that if your attack hit?, Omg i just got a idea.  Hunter make attack if he miss, Beat can make a basic attack :P ( that smell more a encounter ).
#20 bamms34 Nov 01, 2010 23:26:32	hunter quarry is  1d6 or 1D8 ( with feat ) . Why you would give up that if your attack hit?, Omg i just got a idea.  Hunter make attack if he miss, Beat can make a basic attack :P ( that smell more a encounter ). Mostly for the ability to let your beast companion attack each round, and not feel like a moving bag of HP. But, with a beast MBA, you can add not only the die size, but STR mod dmg, and, if my wolf companion has CA (which should be the case), WIS mod dmg as well. 1d6 or 1d8 v. 1d8 +5 or +6 is worth the ability to make the attack IMHO.  AND, if your DM allows the Savage Wolf feat to not be an independent entity, then its MBA also knocks prone. Definitely worth it.