Beastmaster ranger - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Beastmaster ranger

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
gwydion9
Nov 16, 2011 22:44:33 With the introduction of themes that grant characters pets, I am thinking about houseruling the beastmaster ranger build into a theme. I see no reason why rangers should be forced to give up class features to get something they could get as part of a theme for free. I could use the fey beast trainer theme as a model, and include the ability to use powers with the beast keyword. Does anyone see any games mechanics problem with this that I am missing?
#2
rampant
Nov 16, 2011 23:11:34 Well the main difference would be that a beast master ranger gets some nifty damage boosts from his powers, especially if he picks them with an eye towards his beastie. I'm a little concerned about throwing powers balanced around the assumptions of a specific class open to everyone.
#3
gwydion9
Nov 17, 2011 7:52:56
I should have been clearer-the theme would have ranger as a prerequisite.
#4
rampant
Nov 17, 2011 9:42:34 What about the essentials rangers?

Any way why bother? I mean if you don't like beast master, just use the fey beast master theme on a ranger.

Maybe you should consider this, make a feat for fey beast master rangers, that allows the fey beast to function as a beast for the purpose of the beastmaster feats, paths, and powers. There's no rule that says you have to be a beast master ranger to take beast powers, just that they can't be used without a beast. So if you're dead set on a two blade ranger or whatever with an animal companion a snergy feat seems like the way to go.
#5
gwydion9
Nov 17, 2011 11:44:55
What about the essentials rangers?

That's a good question, what about them? Is there any problem with them having a beast companion and being able to use beast powers? It would probably benefit the scout more than the archer ranger, but that doesn't seem like a huge problem, since what I'm proposing is a theme. Obviously the pre-E ranger will get more out of it, but I don't see a problem with that, either. Can you think of one?

Any way why bother? I mean if you don't like beast master, just use the fey beast master theme on a ranger.

Wait, what? Where did I say I didn't like beastmaster rangers? what I said was that I didn't think that it made much sense that they had to give up class features to get something that people could get for free through a theme. Even I can see that beastmaster rangers are underpowered, and that's especially evident now that we have themes that give you much of what you get by being a beastmaster for free as a theme. Since I LIKE the concept of the beastmaster ranger, I'd like to make it a more viable choice from a mechanics standpoint.

Maybe you should consider this, make a feat for fey beast master rangers, that allows the fey beast to function as a beast for the purpose of the beastmaster feats, paths, and powers. There's no rule that says you have to be a beast master ranger to take beast powers, just that they can't be used without a beast. So if you're dead set on a two blade ranger or whatever with an animal companion a snergy feat seems like the way to go.

That's an interesting idea, but I have always been against the idea of paying feats just to be able to swap powers, which is why we ruled that power-swap feats are free to multiclass characters long ago in my games. Part of my objective here is to make the option cost less. Also, that's a bit constrained flavor-wise, not every ranger is going to want to be a fey beastmaster, and I'd like to be able to use the creatures in MP II.

#6
rampant
Nov 17, 2011 14:56:41 Ohhhhhh ok that makes a bit more sense.

The problem is now I'm gonna need to actually see the theme, and for some reason my copy's been delayed.
#7
ciaran
Nov 17, 2011 15:56:47 Rangers don't lose much by choosing the feature that gives them a pet meat shield. You lose a bonus feat and an elusive +1 to hit with ranged attacks.
#8
webwarrior94
Nov 27, 2011 8:40:14
Rangers don't lose much by choosing the feature that gives them a pet meat shield. You lose a bonus feat and an elusive +1 to hit with ranged attacks.

Have you seen Martial Power 2?
Hunter Style gives you +4 AC vs OA and Quick Draw for free, while Marauder Style gives a constant +1 speed bonus and Two-Weapon Defense for free.
Running Attack can replace Prime Shot, and adds a +1 to charges (on top of the +1 you get anyway).
#9
gwydion9
Nov 27, 2011 10:21:37 Once again: why should rangers have to give up class features *at all* to get something you can get for free with a theme? It makes no sense to me.

Since nobody seems to be able to offer any game balance objections, I'm going to go ahead and do it.
#10
mattador666
Nov 27, 2011 11:51:31 they shouldn't.

give it the beast keyword, as you said. make sure its attacks, defenses, and hp scale ok. call it a wolf, hawk, bear, etc., and roll with it.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 gwydion9 Nov 16, 2011 22:44:33	With the introduction of themes that grant characters pets, I am thinking about houseruling the beastmaster ranger build into a theme. I see no reason why rangers should be forced to give up class features to get something they could get as part of a theme for free. I could use the fey beast trainer theme as a model, and include the ability to use powers with the beast keyword. Does anyone see any games mechanics problem with this that I am missing?
#2 rampant Nov 16, 2011 23:11:34	Well the main difference would be that a beast master ranger gets some nifty damage boosts from his powers, especially if he picks them with an eye towards his beastie. I'm a little concerned about throwing powers balanced around the assumptions of a specific class open to everyone.
#3 gwydion9 Nov 17, 2011 7:52:56	I should have been clearer-the theme would have ranger as a prerequisite.
#4 rampant Nov 17, 2011 9:42:34	What about the essentials rangers? Any way why bother? I mean if you don't like beast master, just use the fey beast master theme on a ranger. Maybe you should consider this, make a feat for fey beast master rangers, that allows the fey beast to function as a beast for the purpose of the beastmaster feats, paths, and powers. There's no rule that says you have to be a beast master ranger to take beast powers, just that they can't be used without a beast. So if you're dead set on a two blade ranger or whatever with an animal companion a snergy feat seems like the way to go.
#5 gwydion9 Nov 17, 2011 11:44:55	What about the essentials rangers? That's a good question, what about them? Is there any problem with them having a beast companion and being able to use beast powers? It would probably benefit the scout more than the archer ranger, but that doesn't seem like a huge problem, since what I'm proposing is a theme. Obviously the pre-E ranger will get more out of it, but I don't see a problem with that, either. Can you think of one? Any way why bother? I mean if you don't like beast master, just use the fey beast master theme on a ranger. Wait, what? Where did I say I didn't like beastmaster rangers? what I said was that I didn't think that it made much sense that they had to give up class features to get something that people could get for free through a theme. Even I can see that beastmaster rangers are underpowered, and that's especially evident now that we have themes that give you much of what you get by being a beastmaster for free as a theme. Since I LIKE the concept of the beastmaster ranger, I'd like to make it a more viable choice from a mechanics standpoint. Maybe you should consider this, make a feat for fey beast master rangers, that allows the fey beast to function as a beast for the purpose of the beastmaster feats, paths, and powers. There's no rule that says you have to be a beast master ranger to take beast powers, just that they can't be used without a beast. So if you're dead set on a two blade ranger or whatever with an animal companion a snergy feat seems like the way to go. That's an interesting idea, but I have always been against the idea of paying feats just to be able to swap powers, which is why we ruled that power-swap feats are free to multiclass characters long ago in my games. Part of my objective here is to make the option cost less. Also, that's a bit constrained flavor-wise, not every ranger is going to want to be a fey beastmaster, and I'd like to be able to use the creatures in MP II.
#6 rampant Nov 17, 2011 14:56:41	Ohhhhhh ok that makes a bit more sense. The problem is now I'm gonna need to actually see the theme, and for some reason my copy's been delayed.
#7 ciaran Nov 17, 2011 15:56:47	Rangers don't lose much by choosing the feature that gives them a pet meat shield. You lose a bonus feat and an elusive +1 to hit with ranged attacks.
#8 webwarrior94 Nov 27, 2011 8:40:14	Rangers don't lose much by choosing the feature that gives them a pet meat shield. You lose a bonus feat and an elusive +1 to hit with ranged attacks. Have you seen Martial Power 2? Hunter Style gives you +4 AC vs OA and Quick Draw for free, while Marauder Style gives a constant +1 speed bonus and Two-Weapon Defense for free. Running Attack can replace Prime Shot, and adds a +1 to charges (on top of the +1 you get anyway).
#9 gwydion9 Nov 27, 2011 10:21:37	Once again: why should rangers have to give up class features at all to get something you can get for free with a theme? It makes no sense to me. Since nobody seems to be able to offer any game balance objections, I'm going to go ahead and do it.
#10 mattador666 Nov 27, 2011 11:51:31	they shouldn't. give it the beast keyword, as you said. make sure its attacks, defenses, and hp scale ok. call it a wolf, hawk, bear, etc., and roll with it.