For the werewolf, I want them to be required to kill someone every full moon until they are cured. That way, they will be compelled to find a cure rather than just go with it. Also, during the full moon they shift completely and become completely insane. Otherwise, they aren't able to fully transform, only become a hybrid.
As for the Vampire, I think it wouldn't be too hard to pull from the Vampire class, but I wouldn't want everything. The requirement to leech healing surges sounds cool, and the power would work for the Changeling Rogue who would become a vampire. The radiant sun damage thing is pretty cool too. But I feel like there could be more added.
Has someone done any of this before? I would really appreciate whatever help anyone can give me.
Also, if there's a thread about this already, I'm sorry for posting again, but I couldn't find one.
Well I'm going to start with the vampire first. Simplest way would probably be to give the player all the dhampir multiclass feats for free. Or just give him all the benefits and powers from it, same thing. Or yeah, borrow from the Vamp class.
Now, werewolf. Well you do have the option now of checking out the Pack of something theme in the Neverwinter campaign book that just came out. It's as close to a werewolf as we've received so far. Basically the power with the theme is an at will shape shifting that lets you change into a wolf(not a werewolf, just a wolf) with a bite attack. And obviously all themes have other powers they can replace their class powers with. But you could instead give him a couple for free.
If you want a bipedal werewolf type...well honestly I would consider looking at the homebrewed werewolf races that work like the Revenant, meaning you have a base race that you count as but are still different.
This is my werewolf race attempt, not perfect by any means, but check it out if you want.
I'm not sure it's a good idea to force a player to kill NPCs. Not to mention this puts the entire group at risk. If they're in a city then he transforms and goes a killin. This could get him caught, and thus open up potential harm to him and the group as a whole. And then if they're away from other people this means he has to kill one of the other players, or die trying. This means one player will lose their character because of you forcing this on him, which to me just stinks of unfair and not fun at all. Then again, you know your group more than I do, maybe they wouldn't care about killing each other.
When you say, "Otherwise, they aren't able to fully transform, only become a hybrid" I'm not sure I get this. I mean I understand werewolf lore is vast but the most common conception is of a man who can change into a normal wolf, or the classic hybrid form. But you say during the full moon you'd like them to shift completely, and go insane. Otherwise they aren't able to full transform, just become a hybrid. What would you consider fully transformed then? To me the hybrid is the full transformation when you have the man, wolf, werewolf setup.
Either way, not the best idea. Now I could see doing something were they have to maybe make a saving throw every round during a full moon if they're transformed and if they fail the saving throw they lash out at the nearest creature maybe but then I'm not sure what you mean my having them go "insane".
The thing with this though, is that whatever you do you need to be careful. These are lv3 players if you suddenly give them too much even with some restrictions it could easily have them far outstripping the rest of the group leaving them behind and possibly making those player feel bad because the other two guys can do all these neat things while they can't. Just saying, something to take into consideration no matter what you do when you look at what abilities and all to give the transformed characters.
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
"Fine. Have fun playing YOUR character," is both a reasonable and a reasonably likely response from someone who is subjected to this.
What concerns me here is that "I feel like sticking them with this" is the only reason given for mucking around with the fundamentals of their characters, and "surprise - you're a vampire now!" being unreversible makes it worse.
"Fine. Have fun playing YOUR character," is both a reasonable and a reasonably likely response from someone who is subjected to this.
Man, I've never heard of a player being this much of a cry baby about something. Do they not go on adventures? Do they cry when people hit them? I mean, that's not what the player or character wants. Sometimes people need to learn to just go with things, there's going to be a way to reverse it, it's like any other cursed with awesome trope out there.
Sure, the DM may think it's interesting to impose this on the players, but they may not be so amused to find that the characters they've developed have just been fundamentally altered on his whim.
You don't get this sort of thing in official content anymore for several good reasons, among them being the principle that players should be the ones in control of their character concepts.
*IF* one or more of the players thinks this would be a fun thing to have happen then that's another matter - but "surprise - your character is something else now!" is a terrible idea.
Zeratul: What was posted above is not the organic result of an adventuring situation, it's a case of "I have decided that these two PCs will be affected."
Sure, the DM may think it's interesting to impose this on the players, but they may not be so amused to find that the characters they've developed have just been fundamentally altered on his whim.
You don't get this sort of thing in official content anymore for several good reasons, among them being the principle that players should be the ones in control of their character concepts.
*IF* one or more of the players thinks this would be a fun thing to have happen then that's another matter - but "surprise - your character is something else now!" is a terrible idea.
What if it becomes the result of an adventuring situation? Say, combat with werewolves and vampires, or the lack of adequate defenses in an area frequented by them?
The OP did not list the trigger that would change the characters.
> werewolves and vampires,
Then you're probably not dealing with the "It happens just because" aspect, which is one part of the problem, but realize that neither werewolves or vampires (or much of anything) in 4E cause your character to turn into something else as the OP is proposing. Moon Frenzy causes problems but you don't turn into a werewolf because of it; neither does being bitten by a vampire cause you to turn into a vampire. This is not an accident or oversight; 4E deliberately discarded game elements that (among other consequences) take control of the character's concept away from the player.
*IF* you want to do something like this then run it by the players FIRST and see if any of them would be interested in that sort of hook. If they're not, don't do it.
The Bard said he wanted to contract lycanthropy for a limited amount of time, but he would want to go on a side quest to find a cure. I said that was fine, and told him I'd give him some powers, but I'd also be true to the werewolf nature that they go insane and kill people. He absolutely loved this.
The party often splits up to take on various side quests, some with multiple group members, some with just one. The Rogue is a mercenary, and his side quests involve taking contracts to kill people. I was going to have him encounter a target that was a vampire, who would bite him and run away. He would then be told that he has the potential to change, but I would ask if that was okay with him first. If not, I'd find some type of disease for him to come down with that he wouldn't know about until he returned to the party.
As for vamp boy potentiate, I honestly would speak to him before he even encounters the vampire. Say, let him know about the job to go vamp hunting, and then mention OOC that to beware because in your game a vampire's bite can turn someone. This way if he wants to get bitten he may put himself into such a situation, if he doesn't he'll be cautious when confronting the vamp or may just choose not to risk it which should be fine for him to choose.
Because yeah as Neutro said, it's not always fun to forcefully change a player's character against their will. Now there are circumstances like if they really just do something stupid, there are consequences. A friend of mine learned the hard way about forcing great changes onto another person's character in a White Wolf game he was doing about the supernatural. He informed one of the players that his character was pregnant(his character IS female by the way, incase you were wondering). Didn't know why or how(yeah, he didn't engage in sex the night before or anything), just was pregnant. He was pissed, because it totally went against his character's beliefs and all. So he went and got an abortion, and guess what happened? The game ended, literally.
The reason why is because when the DM made his character pregnant it was with the worlds next savior which he just aborted, thus the world would end. So yeah, if you're going to make such a fundamental change to the vamp potentiate, definitely discuss it first as I said, before it even becomes an issue not just when you have the vamp bite him. Also another thing to be aware of is that the player may not do anything that gives you the opportunity to bite him without you forcing things and breaking rules. Which while it's in your right as DM, it can also be looked at badly from the player's side in say you have the vamp jump out at the player without letting the player roll a Perception check if he's scoping out the place, and say the vamp bites him without any kind of attack rolls or anything.
What I mean is you should be aware that even if you want to bite him he may not do anything to give you the opportunity without breaking rules to do it, and you should probably avoid doing that just so you can make him a vamp. If you go by rules with attack rolls and everything and he's aware of the danger that's fine, but don't force anything would also be my recommendation.
Personaly to me if a group of players isn't willing to roll with it and if a dm isn't also able and willing to roll with the players actions as well they a group simply won't work.
$ed still has plenty of domminate actions I might add and a few charm actions which can make for some fun times. But anyhows I digress there is nothing wrong with infecting a player though personaly I would give them time to go revearse the effect before it takes hold
Lycanthrope is easy a simple cure desease/curse ritual (or rather whatever 4ed calls it I forget the exact name) traditionaly has gotten rid of lycanthropy and I would definatly use the same for vampire or make it so they goto kill the creating vampire
Can even add in a very easy save that slowly gets harder to maintain controle each day and not give in to urges, just make sure the players have a way out, thats the key is don't perminently change there char without any way out and mind that no matter what there action the game won't be ruined.
In the matter of the pregnency and the player getting a abortion, DM coulda rolled with it and had the life force jump to one of the abortion crews and the pc later find out about what happened and have to protect them. plenty of ways to roll with things thats what the GM job is. Be prepared for the PC to do anything and everything and absalutaly the thing that is the hardest for you to work around
That being said, may we please get back on topic? If you leave the "who gets bitten, when, where, why, and how" to me, I can come up with a scenario. That's not a problem either. What I'm asking for is what kinds of alterations should I give someone who already has a character created, with an individual race and class, to give them a Lycan/Vamp feel? What kind of powers, features, ability/skill modifiers, etc. should be included? Here's my thoughts so far, and I'm sorry for not explaining them in more detail sooner.
Werewolf:
The werewolf creatures I've seen in the Compendium are able to transform into 3 different shapes: Human, Hybrid, and Beast, and I plan on implementing the three forms. Alitain, your first post seemed confused about this.
-Human: The base form. How the character looked before they changed.
-Hybrid: Stereotypical werewolf in popular horror films. Humanoid that walks upright but still looks like a wolf.
-Beast: Looks exactly like a wolf. There's no trace of human at all. In this form, the character is insane, and is controlled by impulse and hunger alone.
The Hybrid form and the Beast form are totally different. The player will be able to willingly switch between Human and Hybrid either At-Will or once per Encounter, I haven't decided yet. But they won't take on Beast form until the full moon, during which time they are considered an NPC (please don't lecture me for this, the player said he was totally fine with it, as it seemed more realistic to him).
I think in Human form, the character is unaffected mechanically. They have the same stats and everything as they did before the change. In Beast form, they would only have a Claw and a Bite attack. However, Hybrid would have access to a little of both. I'm still thinking of a way to incorporate this, but I think I'll give the player access to a Claw attack as an MBA. I'm just not sure what to do beyond that. Also, being that werewolves have Regeneration, I'd like to include that while bloodied.
Also, for what it's worth, I'm not TOTALLY heartless. The Bard will be able to find a way to control his Beast impulses. There are ways to stop himself from losing his mentality during a full shift, he will just have to discover them. There are NPCs in the game that will be able to help here.
Vampire:
I honestly haven't started on this at all yet. I'm really only concerned with werewolf for the time being, because it's going to happen first, and it's going to be harder to work with. The vampire bit won't happen until at least a level or two after the werewolf stuff, and there's already stuff on vampires so it should be easier. Werewolf is the priority at the moment.
didn't get around to lycanthrops yet though it is on my rather large to do list but for vampire me and rampant worked on making a vampire theme that should fit most of your desired effect, they would just get the lvl 1 for free if they actualy wanted to play into the change the option is there to swap powers out just like any other theme anyhows heres a link in case it helps
community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/758...
quoting myself in case it got missed in the offtopic.
The vampire theme me and ravmpant worked on adds all the feal of the class under the guidline of the theme. This was specificaly designed becouse to me vampire was not a race or a class and should not take the place of eather. Please take a look at the vampire theme here let me know if it fits what your going ofr at all, if so cools if not let me know what does and does not and I can help further.
I have a few ideas for lycanthrope but will wait to here back from you first
For example the Silver Phoenix Rage gives regeneration, which might be a nice low level power that you can add to the Bard's Hybrid form, that'll allow him to do some damage and regenerate as a Hybrid. If he's very bad with weapons or Melee, you could always give him a fixed bonus to accuracy and damage, but it'll allow you to get a reading on how powerful an ability it could be without breaking anything.
Alternatively you could even create an entire second sheet for him in the form of a Barbarian with access to a whole bunch of "claw and bite" powers that are basically the Barbarian powers he has in that form. That'd be quite a bump in power though, especially if he can change at will. It might also cause some issues with health.
You can do the same thing for the vampire. Basically just take a power at about the character's level and reflavor it to the character, maybe changing the requires stat to match better. That's the easiest way to keep things in check.
Vampirism
Notes:
Once contracting Vampirism you must feed on a regular basis lest you slowly become more feral. Descending deeper into the recesses of the disease before the bloodthirst is far too much and you finally succumb to the thirst.
As you progress further through your life your innate abilities afforded to you through your heritage will begin to surface. Turning you more and more into one of the ancients of your kind.
Initial Bonuses:
~You gain the Blood Drain Encouter Power.
~You gain a +1 bonus to Strength and Charisma
~You Gain Darkvision
~You gain a +1 Bonus to your Athletics, Acrobatics, and Stealth Skill
~If you use the Blood Drain Power you may recharge a Spent Vampiric Ability in place of spending a Healing Surge.
Initial Disadvantages:
~You gain Vulnerability Fire 5/Tier
~You gain Vulnerability Radiant 5/TierGain the following as you level
Level 3 - Gain +2 damage with melee attacks.
Level 5 - Gain Vampire Seduction
Vampire's Seduction
Encounter ~ Charm
Minor Action Ranged 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma +2 vs Will.
Hit: The Target is Dazed until the end of your next turn (Save Ends)
Level 7 - Gain +1 Move
Level 10 - Gain Vampiric Leap
Vampiric Leap
At-Will
Move Action
Special: You may Jump up to your normal speed
Level 13 - Gain Immunity to Disease
Level 15 - Gain Dominating Daze
Dominating Gaze
Daily ~ Charm
Minor Action Ranged 5
Target: One Creature
Attack: Charisma +4 vs Will
Hit: Target is dominated (Save Ends) Aftereffect: Target is Dazed
Miss: The Target is Dazed (Save ends)
Level 17 - Gain Reign of Terror
Reign of Terror
Daily ~ Fear
Standard Action Close Burst 2
Target: All creatures in blast
Attack: Charisma +2 vs Will
Hit: All Creatures in blast are Dazed (Save Ends)
Make up your own or check out some fan created material.
For the Lycanthrope I would use the ravenloft (fan rules). There is a madness track called Curse of the Beast that might work well.
www.fraternityofshadows.com/Library/Jest...
For more ideas you might want to check out the old Van Richten's Guide books.
www.amazon.com/Van-Richtens-Guide-Vampir...
www.amazon.com/Richtens-Guide-Werebeasts...