Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 P1NBACK Apr 20, 2010 8:26:48	I'm just curious if anyone has done the logical thing (what 4E _should_ have done) and gotten rid of "daily" anything... No daily powers. No daily rests. No daily amount of surges. Etc... And, instead based the resources PCs get around a per-encounter basis (i.e. Surges per Encounter, Encounter and At-Will powers only, etc...). Eh? I wanted to check with you guys and see if you had these ideas and if so, if you'd share them.
#2 Johnathan_Vagabond Apr 20, 2010 8:54:48	I think the most reasonable idea I've heard for replacing "Daily" was to replace it with "Milestonely".  Rather than having a limit by day, you have a limit per milestone.  Eliminating Daily powers does a lot of rather awful things to many classes.  Wizard's strongest control powers are daily powers.  Barbarian rages are all Daily powers.  Warden Forms are all Daily powers.  It also means a lot of dead levels that look a bit like this: lvl  Powers 1   At-Will, Encounter 2   Utility 3   Encounter 4 5 6   Utility 7   Encounter 8 9 Four full levels of nothing but numbers.  It gets even more lopsided in paragon and epic (4 powers per tier instead of six) not to mention that there are a number of 'daily' utility powers, so you can effectively half or even eliminate an entire level's worth of Utility power choices.  If you want to drop the Daily resources (and I do believe healing surges make sense as Daily functions) then I suggest going with a per-milestone system or another counter, but certainly don't get ride of them completely. Perhaps a rule of 1 Daily per Encounter would be better?
#3 P1NBACK Apr 20, 2010 8:57:32	lvl  Powers 1   At-Will, Encounter 2   Utility 3   Encounter 4 5 6   Utility 7   Encounter 8 9 Four full levels of nothing but numbers. Technically, you could take encounter powers during those levels, so that it'd look like this: Lvl 1 Powers 1   At-Will, Encounter 1 2   Utility 3   Encounter 3 4   Encounter 1 5   Encounter 3 6   Utility 7   Encounter 7 8   Encounter 3 Or... Whatever...
#4 thegreatgalstaff Apr 20, 2010 9:10:30	what about classes that need dalies to function... Barbarian without rage is just a idiot running around with a Axe. cant use his rage strike class feature. Wardens: they need their dailies to polymorph and become better defenders in certain situations (fire dragon, i turn into my fire form and get resistance to it, stuff like that) Rouge: you need to use your dailies most give you CA and ongoing damage, it keeps you competitive. Wizards: they would be completely boned, they have thier spellbook wich holds their daily powers, whats the point of having a book that is mosly blank (i will admit they can use their utility powers out of it) there is probably more but this is whats off the top of my head and what about items... are you going to get rid of 92.4% (i dont have insider but that was the percent around AV2 comming out) of the items in the game to get rid of all daily powers? I would suggest a limit to dailies not getting rid of them, or every two or three combats you can get one back.
#5 P1NBACK Apr 20, 2010 9:13:38	Right. So, I'm looking for people who have done something. Not people who aren't willing to do it or are not interested/don't like the idea. Thanks.
#6 Johnathan_Vagabond Apr 20, 2010 9:17:33	Are you referring to players interested in removing daily effects or board members offering their insights as to your idea?  I'm suggesting that, instead of getting rid of Daily powers altogether (just because the word daily is attached to them) you make them powers that can't be used every single encounter (i.e. per milestone).  I think it's a rather logical method.
#7 P1NBACK Apr 20, 2010 9:40:43	Are you referring to players interested in removing daily effects or board members offering their insights as to your idea?  I'm suggesting that, instead of getting rid of Daily powers altogether (just because the word daily is attached to them) you make them powers that can't be used every single encounter (i.e. per milestone).  I think it's a rather logical method. I'm looking for players interested in removing daily effects entirely. I've actually done the "milestone" method and it left a bad taste in my mouth. So, if removing daily effects entirely isn't possible because of certain classes (I could just remove those classes...) then that's cool. I'm just wondering if it's been done.
#8 babyj Apr 21, 2010 5:25:08	Curious..   I'm just curious if anyone has done the logical thing (what 4E _should_ have done) and gotten rid of "daily" anything... What is logical? The daily everything you said, so no daily power magic items? no utility powers that do awesome stuff? ---- Not naysaying on your idea, just wanna ask this as well... Q: How strict are you on the decision that the powers themselves don't exist anymore in any form? ie-Are you at least open to just removing the existence of the Daily type, but making them encounter powers with a limitation... or do you want them out entirely-  and therefore impossible to use. --Why? I did something similar, and it works, but its totally broken if you aren't careful. First, you gotta give em the daily powers to use, but differently. What I did was, I gave them each an extra healing surge, and said they could use 1 surge to cast a "daily power" (which I retitled a "surge power"). This was limited to once per encounter. Making the daily power an encounter power, but one which is draining. Surges I did not change, since this dictates when a character is too beat up to continue, and will be mortally wounded and unable to go on next time she gets hit. Making healing surges an encounter replenishing ability meant no need to rest after 6 hrs of fighting, just go n go as long as the fights arent individually too hard. Daily limit surges are important, and should not be messed with without vast changes to their workings to ensure the character can't go on fighting forever.
#9 P1NBACK Apr 21, 2010 7:29:31	Curious..   I'm just curious if anyone has done the logical thing (what 4E _should_ have done) and gotten rid of "daily" anything... What is logical? The daily everything you said, so no daily power magic items? no utility powers that do awesome stuff? Yes. Anything that revolves around a "day" of rest. I want to remove. I want characters to refresh after each encounter. ---- Not naysaying on your idea, just wanna ask this as well... Q: How strict are you on the decision that the powers themselves don't exist anymore in any form? ie-Are you at least open to just removing the existence of the Daily type, but making them encounter powers with a limitation... or do you want them out entirely-  and therefore impossible to use. --Why? I wouldn't be opposed to some form of "encounter daily" if it made sense and was fairly balanced. The problem I see with dailies is that they are designed for the "nova". Keeping dailies in an encounter-based system means the PCs get to go nova every encounter. I personally think going nova is dumb, so I'm looking to remove that aspect entirely. I did something similar, and it works, but its totally broken if you aren't careful. First, you gotta give em the daily powers to use, but differently.  This is why it's broken. You included dailies. Yes. I want to remove daily powers entirely.