BFS Proficency - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

BFS Proficency

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
kicowboy
Jul 13, 2008 10:17:53 I've got nothing against the current greatsword. It does less damage, but its more accurate. Generally our table looks at it like a katana-it does the same damage as a bastard sword, and with a feat you can wield it one handed. But sometimes a person wants a little more heft to their blade. What I propose is our houserule BFS (Big Freaking Sword) Exotic Weapon Proficiency. It has hefty prereqs, but comes in tiers as an offset (Heroic=zweihander/zanbatou, Paragon=Cloud's sword, Epic=Gatsu's sword).

Heroic BFS Proficiency
Prereqs: STR 18, Trained in Endurance, Weapon Focus: Heavy Blade
Benefit: BFS1= +3 2d6

Basically for hefty prereqs and a feat you get a swordish equivalent to the maul.

Paragon BFS
Prereqs: 21 STR, Endurance, Wpn Focus, Toughness
Benefit: +3 3d4

Still 12 damage, but a better average.

Epic BFS
Prereqs: 26 STR, Endurance, Wpn Focus, Toughness, Heavy Blade Opp
Benefit: +3 3d6

Very tough-but again those are hefty prereqs and alot of expended feats.

So, I'm just curious for people's comments or suggestions. I know its not perfect, but its a current stopgap for those who want a beefier heavy blade.
#2
generalhenry
Jul 13, 2008 10:25:28 the issue is, it multiplies since it's part of [W]

7d10-38.5 (great sword) v 21d6-73.5 (epic BFS) that's 35 damage.
#3
kicowboy
Jul 13, 2008 13:01:07 Good point. Hmm. . .what about slowing it down to d10->d12->2d6->2d8. Still noticeably tougher, but not any more outlandish than a Minotaur with a "large" maul. Maybe looking into an option for making it heavy crit instead of just upping damage is another option too.
#4
AaronOfBarbaria
Jul 13, 2008 15:16:31 Might I suggest just making a single superior weapon out of it?

"Buster" Sword - Two-handed Heavy Blade
+3 proficiency 1d12 damage High Crit
or
+3 proficiency 2d6 damage
whichever seems more flavor accurate for you

Keep in mind that no matter what weapon you are using, the damage of most attacks starts doing 2[w] at 21st level already. That includes basic attacks.

This makes the Big-friggin-sword stand out a little bit, without creating overly specific or multiple pre-reqs.

I'm of the school of thought: If it feels like more than 2 prerequisites are needed for it to feel balanced, then it is too powerful.
#5
kicowboy
Jul 13, 2008 15:19:46 On second thought though, I suppose the point is to have higher damage. At which point its a question of is this a reasonable Reward vs. Resources spent situation.

BFS 1&2 I feel comfortable with. They're still 12 point weapons, but with better average damage. Plus you've invested a max/near max attribute, up to two feats on the weapons themselves, a skill, and two additional related feats.

BFS 3 makes the jump to an 18 point weapon which I admit does have a large effect on [W] powers. But it is deferred until Epic levels, and has approximately 8 "resources" (6 feats, Max/near max attribute depending on race, and a trained skill) assigned in order to gain that.

So then, is the higher damage a reward of a relative level of the resources spent? As a concurrent point, lets examine the Minotaur Maul Fighter mentioned in the previous post. For 1 resource (racial ability basically equaling a unique feat) they can use a 16 point weapon at first level with nor prereqs. Looking at that, I have a hard time judging whether BFS3 is too broken.

Would Knocking BFS3 down to 4d4 be a reasonable compromise? I would then only be a 16pt weapon, but with very good average damage as a reward for the resources spent. And admittedly it would be the ideal vorpal weapon (which seems fair in the spirit of limb cuttiness seen by most BFS source material.)
#6
wyld_mutation
Jul 13, 2008 15:22:30 I think the prereqs are more for flavor. A 2d6 weapon wouldn't be outlandish on the damage side.

I like the idea. Though the original implementation through "upgrading" feats is a bit wrong to my mind.
#7
aluman
Jul 13, 2008 15:29:17
Paragon BFS
Prereqs: 21 STR, Endurance, Wpn Focus, Toughness
Benefit: +3 3d4

Two things with this.
1. Vorpal BFS II 3d4 on a crit keep rolling d4 until you don't roll a 4.
2. 7[w] = 21d4 = 52.5 7[w] = 7d12 = 45.5 7.0 climb in damage compared to a great ax.

the 3d6 has the second consideration, the first one is dangerous. Very dangerous, imo.
#8
aluman
Jul 13, 2008 15:30:19
Would Knocking BFS3 down to 4d4 be a reasonable compromise? I would then only be a 16pt weapon, but with very good average damage as a reward for the resources spent. And admittedly it would be the ideal vorpal weapon (which seems fair in the spirit of limb cuttiness seen by most BFS source material.)

2d8 if you are going for a 16 point weapon wthat is a heavy balde simply because 4d4 with vorpal makes it where you can reliable double to triple your damage.
#9
kicowboy
Jul 14, 2008 0:43:10 Thanks for the input guys. I'm not new to roleplaying, but I'm new to D&D, so its nice to bounce stuff off folks. One of my buds told me about some gauntlets that let you reroll 1's for damage-at which point I was struck with how broken the multiple d4 thing would get.

Mayhaps it would be best for me to just use the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)method and use Aaron's single feat idea for Superior Weapon "buster sword" and let it be at that.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kicowboy Jul 13, 2008 10:17:53	I've got nothing against the current greatsword. It does less damage, but its more accurate. Generally our table looks at it like a katana-it does the same damage as a bastard sword, and with a feat you can wield it one handed. But sometimes a person wants a little more heft to their blade. What I propose is our houserule BFS (Big Freaking Sword) Exotic Weapon Proficiency. It has hefty prereqs, but comes in tiers as an offset (Heroic=zweihander/zanbatou, Paragon=Cloud's sword, Epic=Gatsu's sword). Heroic BFS Proficiency Prereqs: STR 18, Trained in Endurance, Weapon Focus: Heavy Blade Benefit: BFS1= +3 2d6 Basically for hefty prereqs and a feat you get a swordish equivalent to the maul. Paragon BFS Prereqs: 21 STR, Endurance, Wpn Focus, Toughness Benefit: +3 3d4 Still 12 damage, but a better average. Epic BFS Prereqs: 26 STR, Endurance, Wpn Focus, Toughness, Heavy Blade Opp Benefit: +3 3d6 Very tough-but again those are hefty prereqs and alot of expended feats. So, I'm just curious for people's comments or suggestions. I know its not perfect, but its a current stopgap for those who want a beefier heavy blade.
#2 generalhenry Jul 13, 2008 10:25:28	the issue is, it multiplies since it's part of [W] 7d10-38.5 (great sword) v 21d6-73.5 (epic BFS) that's 35 damage.
#3 kicowboy Jul 13, 2008 13:01:07	Good point. Hmm. . .what about slowing it down to d10->d12->2d6->2d8. Still noticeably tougher, but not any more outlandish than a Minotaur with a "large" maul. Maybe looking into an option for making it heavy crit instead of just upping damage is another option too.
#4 AaronOfBarbaria Jul 13, 2008 15:16:31	Might I suggest just making a single superior weapon out of it? "Buster" Sword - Two-handed Heavy Blade +3 proficiency 1d12 damage High Crit or +3 proficiency 2d6 damage whichever seems more flavor accurate for you Keep in mind that no matter what weapon you are using, the damage of most attacks starts doing 2[w] at 21st level already. That includes basic attacks. This makes the Big-friggin-sword stand out a little bit, without creating overly specific or multiple pre-reqs. I'm of the school of thought: If it feels like more than 2 prerequisites are needed for it to feel balanced, then it is too powerful.
#5 kicowboy Jul 13, 2008 15:19:46	On second thought though, I suppose the point is to have higher damage. At which point its a question of is this a reasonable Reward vs. Resources spent situation. BFS 1&2 I feel comfortable with. They're still 12 point weapons, but with better average damage. Plus you've invested a max/near max attribute, up to two feats on the weapons themselves, a skill, and two additional related feats. BFS 3 makes the jump to an 18 point weapon which I admit does have a large effect on [W] powers. But it is deferred until Epic levels, and has approximately 8 "resources" (6 feats, Max/near max attribute depending on race, and a trained skill) assigned in order to gain that. So then, is the higher damage a reward of a relative level of the resources spent? As a concurrent point, lets examine the Minotaur Maul Fighter mentioned in the previous post. For 1 resource (racial ability basically equaling a unique feat) they can use a 16 point weapon at first level with nor prereqs. Looking at that, I have a hard time judging whether BFS3 is too broken. Would Knocking BFS3 down to 4d4 be a reasonable compromise? I would then only be a 16pt weapon, but with very good average damage as a reward for the resources spent. And admittedly it would be the ideal vorpal weapon (which seems fair in the spirit of limb cuttiness seen by most BFS source material.)
#6 wyld_mutation Jul 13, 2008 15:22:30	I think the prereqs are more for flavor. A 2d6 weapon wouldn't be outlandish on the damage side. I like the idea. Though the original implementation through "upgrading" feats is a bit wrong to my mind.
#7 aluman Jul 13, 2008 15:29:17	Paragon BFS Prereqs: 21 STR, Endurance, Wpn Focus, Toughness Benefit: +3 3d4 Two things with this. 1. Vorpal BFS II 3d4 on a crit keep rolling d4 until you don't roll a 4. 2. 7[w] = 21d4 = 52.5 7[w] = 7d12 = 45.5 7.0 climb in damage compared to a great ax. the 3d6 has the second consideration, the first one is dangerous. Very dangerous, imo.
#8 aluman Jul 13, 2008 15:30:19	Would Knocking BFS3 down to 4d4 be a reasonable compromise? I would then only be a 16pt weapon, but with very good average damage as a reward for the resources spent. And admittedly it would be the ideal vorpal weapon (which seems fair in the spirit of limb cuttiness seen by most BFS source material.) 2d8 if you are going for a 16 point weapon wthat is a heavy balde simply because 4d4 with vorpal makes it where you can reliable double to triple your damage.
#9 kicowboy Jul 14, 2008 0:43:10	Thanks for the input guys. I'm not new to roleplaying, but I'm new to D&D, so its nice to bounce stuff off folks. One of my buds told me about some gauntlets that let you reroll 1's for damage-at which point I was struck with how broken the multiple d4 thing would get. Mayhaps it would be best for me to just use the KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)method and use Aaron's single feat idea for Superior Weapon "buster sword" and let it be at that.