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Black Powder

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Krusk
Oct 13, 2008 17:57:32 For an upcoming campaign I will be running, the dwarven city has discovered and regularly uses black power, probably known as Dwarven Powder.

When used by the barrell, I plan to let it do "Plot device" damage, and generally don't need stats for it.

But because I've DMed before, I know my players will not only get it, but try to do all of the following: make guns, make grenades, make stunning grenades; and blow up a building or two.

I am ok with telling them no to guns, and probably no to grenades. That said I would like to let them throw pouches of it at things to stun them, or blind them, or whathave you. I don't currently have any rules for it, and I am curious if anyone else does?

Also, fine if they blow up a building. I mean, hey, if thats what they want to do...
#2
arelia
Oct 13, 2008 18:33:34 Definitely no to guns- they're adventurers, not masterful engineers. I don't care what their Int score is, they haven't got the training and years of experience with the stuff to figure out how to make a gun that doesn't self-destruct half the time. Cannons may be slightly more possible, though.

Maybe to grenades/bombs- Require a Dungeoneering-based skill challenge to design one that works (as dungeoneering is the main one for trap knowledge, and many traps are outlandish devices. Thievery can add bonuses from reverse-engineering)

By throwing pouches of it to stun/blind enemies, are you talking pouches with fuses sticking out, or pouches that you throw and hope they detonate when they hit the enemy's face?
A pouch of it with a fuse sticking out would deal.. maybe a d6 Thunder damage and daze for one round, single target only. Improvised Thrown Item (Dex+halflevel) VS Reflex defense. If the players make these little blast bombs without a fair chunk of prior testing and knowledge (i.e. time not spent adventuring), then they have a chance to explode at the wrong time. (Fuse too short, bye bye hand; fuse too long, watch out for it next round; fuse fell out, laughter)
#3
doomsought
Oct 13, 2008 20:55:38 The 'nade's damage is based off their skill checks... first two or three set the number of dice, other half the size of the dice. the make too many failures, you still make them finish it, then it blows up in their face.
#4
arashidrgn
Oct 13, 2008 21:41:16 I'm sure there are plenty of alchemical devices in the adventurers vault that you could say use black powder as their main ingredient.
#5
Krusk
Oct 14, 2008 10:45:48
By throwing pouches of it to stun/blind enemies, are you talking pouches with fuses sticking out, or pouches that you throw and hope they detonate when they hit the enemy's face?
A pouch of it with a fuse sticking out would deal.. maybe a d6 Thunder damage and daze for one round, single target only. Improvised Thrown Item (Dex+halflevel) VS Reflex defense.

I'm not sure which they will do, but they are probably smart enough to use a fuse.

I persaonlly was thining stunned on a hit, but no damage. Logic being that no other city/empire has this tech, and 99% of people have never seen it. Combine that with the fact that its essentially a flashbang.

I was definatly thinking of browsing the adventurers vault for ideas, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

I agree improvised thrown weapon vs reflex.

Blindign burst or some other named thing from adventurers vault works perfectly in flavor and function.
#6
buchatar
Oct 15, 2008 6:55:02 Say we are dealing with black powder in a belt pouch the size of your fist, not particularly "sealed", just poured in and pulled shut.
When ignited we aren't dealing with a "huge" explosion, lots of light and heat yes, but more of a steady burn that lasts a few seconds than a Frag-Grenade-BOOM!
Blinding / Daze I would definatly recomend and the damage to be minimal, now this is where two paths can be taken:

1) Is the damage dice for the pouch going to be determined by who makes it? Say someone who is trained in Dungeoneering / Theivery (with a very simple skill check), if successful can make a pouch that does 1d8. However someone who is not trained in the above skills loosly packs the powder and just lobs it for either 1d6 or the daze / blind.
When thrown you could roll a dice to determine something random when thrown (as said above, short fuse, premature detonation, long fuse etc etc)

Also: Make sure you include cost for the powder and any "special tools" that must be used during the handling / production.

2) Ah shucks, I got so wrapped up in point no. 1 that I forgot the 2nd option.. oh well, hope it helps anyway .
#7
Fireclave
Oct 16, 2008 6:18:12 If they push for guns, use crossbow stats verbatim. Done. Yes, it's that simple. If you're feeling really generous, you could up their damage die by one size, but I wouldn't do more than that.

For all the other, non-plot-device uses, I think all of thoses uses are covered by the AV's Alchemical Items. But alas, I don't have that book yet.
#8
Krusk
Oct 16, 2008 10:47:38
If they push for guns, use crossbow stats verbatim. Done. Yes, it's that simple. If you're feeling really generous, you could up their damage die by one size, but I wouldn't do more than that.

For all the other, non-plot-device uses, I think all of thoses uses are covered by the AV's Alchemical Items. But alas, I don't have that book yet.

If they push for guns really really hard, and can somehow convince me their characters are going to believeably invent them, I will use the gun stats Tequila_Sunrise posted a bit back.

Honestly though, guns probably will just be a hard ended "No sorry, does not work".

I ma currently debating with myself if I should have guns be a status symbol. They are really outlandishly expensive, 300gpish or more for the more fancy ones. If this is how i end up doing it, then of course PCs can buy guns.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Krusk Oct 13, 2008 17:57:32	For an upcoming campaign I will be running, the dwarven city has discovered and regularly uses black power, probably known as Dwarven Powder. When used by the barrell, I plan to let it do "Plot device" damage, and generally don't need stats for it. But because I've DMed before, I know my players will not only get it, but try to do all of the following: make guns, make grenades, make stunning grenades; and blow up a building or two. I am ok with telling them no to guns, and probably no to grenades. That said I would like to let them throw pouches of it at things to stun them, or blind them, or whathave you. I don't currently have any rules for it, and I am curious if anyone else does? Also, fine if they blow up a building. I mean, hey, if thats what they want to do...
#2 arelia Oct 13, 2008 18:33:34	Definitely no to guns- they're adventurers, not masterful engineers. I don't care what their Int score is, they haven't got the training and years of experience with the stuff to figure out how to make a gun that doesn't self-destruct half the time. Cannons may be slightly more possible, though. Maybe to grenades/bombs- Require a Dungeoneering-based skill challenge to design one that works (as dungeoneering is the main one for trap knowledge, and many traps are outlandish devices. Thievery can add bonuses from reverse-engineering) By throwing pouches of it to stun/blind enemies, are you talking pouches with fuses sticking out, or pouches that you throw and hope they detonate when they hit the enemy's face? A pouch of it with a fuse sticking out would deal.. maybe a d6 Thunder damage and daze for one round, single target only. Improvised Thrown Item (Dex+halflevel) VS Reflex defense. If the players make these little blast bombs without a fair chunk of prior testing and knowledge (i.e. time not spent adventuring), then they have a chance to explode at the wrong time. (Fuse too short, bye bye hand; fuse too long, watch out for it next round; fuse fell out, laughter)
#3 doomsought Oct 13, 2008 20:55:38	The 'nade's damage is based off their skill checks... first two or three set the number of dice, other half the size of the dice. the make too many failures, you still make them finish it, then it blows up in their face.
#4 arashidrgn Oct 13, 2008 21:41:16	I'm sure there are plenty of alchemical devices in the adventurers vault that you could say use black powder as their main ingredient.
#5 Krusk Oct 14, 2008 10:45:48	By throwing pouches of it to stun/blind enemies, are you talking pouches with fuses sticking out, or pouches that you throw and hope they detonate when they hit the enemy's face? A pouch of it with a fuse sticking out would deal.. maybe a d6 Thunder damage and daze for one round, single target only. Improvised Thrown Item (Dex+halflevel) VS Reflex defense. I'm not sure which they will do, but they are probably smart enough to use a fuse. I persaonlly was thining stunned on a hit, but no damage. Logic being that no other city/empire has this tech, and 99% of people have never seen it. Combine that with the fact that its essentially a flashbang. I was definatly thinking of browsing the adventurers vault for ideas, but haven't gotten around to it yet. I agree improvised thrown weapon vs reflex. Blindign burst or some other named thing from adventurers vault works perfectly in flavor and function.
#6 buchatar Oct 15, 2008 6:55:02	Say we are dealing with black powder in a belt pouch the size of your fist, not particularly "sealed", just poured in and pulled shut. When ignited we aren't dealing with a "huge" explosion, lots of light and heat yes, but more of a steady burn that lasts a few seconds than a Frag-Grenade-BOOM! Blinding / Daze I would definatly recomend and the damage to be minimal, now this is where two paths can be taken: 1) Is the damage dice for the pouch going to be determined by who makes it? Say someone who is trained in Dungeoneering / Theivery (with a very simple skill check), if successful can make a pouch that does 1d8. However someone who is not trained in the above skills loosly packs the powder and just lobs it for either 1d6 or the daze / blind. When thrown you could roll a dice to determine something random when thrown (as said above, short fuse, premature detonation, long fuse etc etc) Also: Make sure you include cost for the powder and any "special tools" that must be used during the handling / production. 2) Ah shucks, I got so wrapped up in point no. 1 that I forgot the 2nd option.. oh well, hope it helps anyway .
#7 Fireclave Oct 16, 2008 6:18:12	If they push for guns, use crossbow stats verbatim. Done. Yes, it's that simple. If you're feeling really generous, you could up their damage die by one size, but I wouldn't do more than that. For all the other, non-plot-device uses, I think all of thoses uses are covered by the AV's Alchemical Items. But alas, I don't have that book yet.
#8 Krusk Oct 16, 2008 10:47:38	If they push for guns, use crossbow stats verbatim. Done. Yes, it's that simple. If you're feeling really generous, you could up their damage die by one size, but I wouldn't do more than that. For all the other, non-plot-device uses, I think all of thoses uses are covered by the AV's Alchemical Items. But alas, I don't have that book yet. If they push for guns really really hard, and can somehow convince me their characters are going to believeably invent them, I will use the gun stats Tequila_Sunrise posted a bit back. Honestly though, guns probably will just be a hard ended "No sorry, does not work". I ma currently debating with myself if I should have guns be a status symbol. They are really outlandishly expensive, 300gpish or more for the more fancy ones. If this is how i end up doing it, then of course PCs can buy guns.