Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 lady_ishtar Apr 07, 2011 22:26:02	I have been working on some themes for my world and owuld like some input as far as power level. Any input as far as balance, fluff, or general questions/comments would be appreciated. Here is Blood Crafter, a sort of a divine blood mage. I've included a paragon path to go with it, as well as several feats. Just in case here is web address for it: docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=explorer&...
#2 rampant Apr 08, 2011 6:28:27	Your link takes me to a reply box.
#3 lady_ishtar Apr 08, 2011 7:06:54	I might have fixed it. Hopefully.
#4 rampant Apr 09, 2011 22:54:39	Firstly I'm a little concerned about blood implements, is that intended to make the class powers work off daggers or did you just want the theme powers to do that? Next up your blood bolts power is rather iffy. What if you say "target: one, two, or three creatures" or however many. Next scaling the number of attacks instead of the damage of each attack seems like a gamble, what about setting at two or three and bumping the damage when the tier advances?
#5 lady_ishtar Apr 10, 2011 0:01:28	Firstly I'm a little concerned about blood implements, is that intended to make the class powers work off daggers or did you just want the theme powers to do that? I was thinking about applying them to all implement powers, regardless of class. Does it make much difference if it gives you daggers as implements for all powers as opposed to blood crafter powers only? Next up your blood bolts power is rather iffy. What if you say "target: one, two, or three creatures" or however many. Next scaling the number of attacks instead of the damage of each attack seems like a gamble, what about setting at two or three and bumping the damage when the tier advances? On this one i want multiple attacks.  So I guess it boils down to fiddling with number of missiles and damage. What about this: 2 attacks in heroic, 3 in paragon, 4 in epic (so -1 attack in epic) Damage remains constant at 1d6 radiant and force damage per hit (instead of 1d6 + ability mod) And damage to the caster remains unchanged at 2 per missile in heroic, 3 in paragon, 4 in epic Another big question I have: is the damage caster deals to himself too much? not enough?
#6 rampant Apr 10, 2011 0:09:32	I wasn't concerned about the total damage dealt so much as the problems you'd run into vs. a resistant monster(s) negating the damage from such light individual hits, or evading most of the shots. I know you want multiple attacks, so just set it at three attacks, but then let the damage scale up instead of adding more missiles. As for the daggers, I'm not against themes giving out little abilities like that, but that's roughly equivalent to a power source specific feat, and applying it to all their abilities might be a little much. Especially if the encounter power keeps anywhere near it's current usefulness.
#7 lady_ishtar Apr 10, 2011 0:25:57	I wasn't concerned about the total damage dealt so much as the problems you'd run into vs. a resistant monster(s) negating the damage from such light individual hits, or evading most of the shots. Thats why they either deal untyped damage or two damage types. Hopefully this will take care of most resistance unless your DM has it against you. I know you want multiple attacks, so just set it at three attacks, but then let the damage scale up instead of adding more missiles. So at three attacks damage might look something like this: 1d6 damage in heroic (comparing this with twin strike), 1d6 + ability mod in paragon, and either 2d6 + ability mod OR 1d6 + twice ability mod damage in epic? As for the daggers, I'm not against themes giving out little abilities like that, but that's roughly equivalent to a power source specific feat, and applying it to all their abilities might be a little much. Especially if the encounter power keeps anywhere near it's current usefulness. The way I look at it, for implement using classes it will not make much difference except in some corner cases. And for weapon using classes it will allow them to actually consider this theme as viable without burning feats to be proficient with implements.
#8 rampant Apr 10, 2011 1:43:06	S'far as I know there is no way for a non-implement class to pick up implement proficiency, so one could argue that classes without some sort of imp. prof. couldn't use these implement powers anyway since they have no ability to use implements, it's a dick move, but best to work the wording to avoid it. Solutions: 1.) Drop the ability entirely, not suggested. 2.) Reword the ability to: For the purposes of Blood crafter powers, and powers granted by Paragon paths that require the blood crafter theme {insert bit from sword mage about using blades as implements, but cut-pasted to work for just daggers}. 3.) Reword ability: You may use a dagger in place of an implement for your implement powers {insert standard text regarding use of weapon as implement}, and maybe reduce the power's effectiveness some how.  As for the power make it 1d6+/2d6+/3d6+ for now, changing the damage up and down will be easier once the formatting is cleared up.
#9 MechaPilot Apr 10, 2011 1:58:01	I think I have a suggestion that may help fix the blood bolt.  Give the class a triggered at-will power that lets them spend one of the attacks greanted by blood bolt for a damage boost to the attack (like the power strike feature of the essentials slayer, only it's at-will because it's tied to an encounter power which is resource that is already limited). The way it would work is thusly: 1) A lvl 21 Blood Crafter uses the Blood Bolt power and gets 5 attacks. 2) The character chooses a target for her first attack and rolls, scoring a hit. 3) The hit triggers the at-will ability that lets her sacrifice one or more additional Blood Bolt attacks for extra damage. 4) The character keeps making Blood Bolt attacks (whether augmented or not) until she runs out of attacks.
#10 lady_ishtar Apr 10, 2011 8:31:22	Ok, I like the idea of using daggers just for blood crafetr powers and powers for themes requiring you to be a blood crafter. As far as blood bolt how about this: Target: one creature Hit: 1d10+ damage. Repeat this attack once more against a different target. (twice more at 11, thrice more at 21) Special: You may forgo repeating any numbers of additional attacks attacks. If you do you deal additional 1d10 damage to your primary target for each attack you gave up. Effect: You take 2/3/4 damage for each 1d10 of damage this power deals. This way you do not keep stacking static modifiers on the primary target, and if you want to focus fire you can deal 2d10+/3d10+/4d10+ to one target. And if you miss the initial attack you get nothing.
#11 MechaPilot Apr 10, 2011 14:21:55	Ok, I like the idea of using daggers just for blood crafetr powers and powers for themes requiring you to be a blood crafter. As far as blood bolt how about this: Target: one creature Hit: 1d10+ damage. Repeat this attack once more against a different target. (twice more at 11, thrice more at 21) Special: You may forgo repeating any numbers of additional attacks attacks. If you do you deal additional 1d10 damage to your primary target for each attack you gave up. Effect: You take 2/3/4 damage for each 1d10 of damage this power deals. This way you do not keep stacking static modifiers on the primary target, and if you want to focus fire you can deal 2d10+/3d10+/4d10+ to one target. And if you miss the initial attack you get nothing. I like it, but it's missing an ability modifier to the damage (unless that was just accidental on your part).
#12 lady_ishtar Apr 10, 2011 14:24:54	By 1d10+ i meant 1d10+ability mod, sorry. Do any other powers rise any red flags/concerns/questions or simply need to be clarified?
#13 MechaPilot Apr 10, 2011 14:47:15	For the Effect line of Boiling Blood, does the power always do 3 damage to the attacker?  If so it would be better to state it as "You take 3 points of damage." instead of saying "you take damage equal to the level of the power".  If the power's level is set, then you shouldn't need the effect line to sound variable like that. The same is also true of the Sanguine Tempest power's effect line. I understand the concept behind the self-inflicted damage.  It's cool and thematic, but it might be a little tedious to add that to the record-keeping.  I think it might be worthwhile to include an option for people who don't want to track the extra damage.  Perhaps the player can opt to sacrifice a healing surge in exchange for not having to track the self-inflicted damage.
#14 lady_ishtar Apr 10, 2011 15:06:17	The reason I have it listed as taking damage equal to the level of the power is to scale up with damage as you take higher level versions of it. Though I see how that could be problematic. I could reduce the damage it deals to the caster, make it static damage and reduce the overall damage of the power. I want to stay away from using up healing surges on encounter powers. Especially that taking 5 damage is not the same as loosing a healing surge. As for the Sanguine Tempest, I have no idea why it does not scale up. I need to rewrite it.
#15 MechaPilot Apr 10, 2011 15:42:18	The reason I have it listed as taking damage equal to the level of the power is to scale up with damage as you take higher level versions of it. Though I see how that could be problematic. I could reduce the damage it deals to the caster, make it static damage and reduce the overall damage of the power. Then you definitely need to change it.  The power is shown as having a level of three, with the damage scaling up at levels 13 and 23.  That would mean that you would still take only 3 damage for activating the power at level 23. I would suggest you put the orginal effect line (modified to show that you take 3 damage) below the first hit line, then put an effect line under the hit lines for levels 13 and 23 showing how much damage you take at those levels respectively. As for the Sanguine Tempest, I have no idea why it does not scale up. I need to rewrite it. Take care that you avoid the above trap that you fell into with Boiling Blood. I want to stay away from using up healing surges on encounter powers. Especially that taking 5 damage is not the same as loosing a healing surge. I'm not suggesting the power cost a surge to activate it.  I'm suggesting that you simply remove a surge from the character when they take the blood crafter theme.  Alternately, you could charge them one surge after each rest that recharges the blood crafter's encounter powers (that would be more accurate but requires careful wording to avoid confusion). Oh, but it is, for a low level character.  An average lvl 1 warlock (I'm using that example because it's the class I'm most familiar with) has about 24 hp, giving them a surge value of 6.  Allow me to illustrate further: *If you are a lvl 3 blood crafter, and you use both Blood Bolt and Boiling Blood, you take a total of 7 damage.  Equivalent to a healing surge for a character with 28 hp or less. *If you are a lvl 13 blood crafter, and you use both Blood Bolt and Boiling Blood, you take a total of 22 damage.  Equivalent to a healing surge for a character with 88 hp or less. *If you are a lvl 23 blood crafter, and you use both Blood Bolt and Boiling Blood, you take a total of 43 damage.  Equivalent to a healing surge for a character with 172 hp or less.
#16 lady_ishtar Apr 10, 2011 17:27:06	Ok, this is the updated Blood Crafter. Links in the OP have been changed as well. Another thing, how does the PP look?
#17 MechaPilot Apr 10, 2011 17:34:21	They both look good to me (though I have no experience at balancing/creating PPs, so you should definitely get another opinion).  The changes you made to the effect lines of Boiling Blood and Sanguine Tempest clear up all of the confusion the previous versions had created.  Good work.