Yes, they are discouraging evil pc's. Which isn't much of a bad thing. However by removing the alignment restrictions on paladins, it kinda makes no sense for evil clerics/paladins to call upon the light (radiant damage) to smite their enemies when they sacrifice babies on a regular basis.
Personally I hope they actually make an evil book for 4th edition to give more templates/other rules for 4th edition. As for actually taking ideas from bovd and converting some of it over? That probably isn't such a bad idea.
If Paladin worship evil then replace radiant with necrotic
In the DMG it is said:
If Paladin worship evil then replace radiant with necrotic
Can you find me a page reference so my poor evil paladins don't have to catch sun for their powers?
Divine Evil
Evil and chaotic evil deities have clerics and paladins
just as other gods do. However, the powers of those
classes, as presented in the Player’s Handbook, are
strongly slanted toward good and lawful good characters.
Players might find it jarring to fight a paladin of
Zehir whose weapon erupts with radiant light.
You can alter the nature of powers without changing
their basic effects, making them feel more
appropriate for the servants of evil gods: changing
the damage type of a prayer, for instance, so that evil
clerics and paladins deal necrotic damage instead of
radiant damage. When a prayer would blind its target
with holy light, it might instead shroud a character’s
eyes with clinging darkness. Holy fire consuming a
foe with ongoing fire damage might become a coating
of acidic slime that eats away at the flesh, or a purple
hellfire with identical effects.
Have fun with your evil characters. :D
I recently bought the Book of Vile Darkness and I was wondering if there would be any problems modifying the spells,classes, etc. Also, if there is a 4E edition of the book out please mention it. Also, does it ever seem like this game is now discouraging evil PCs?
D&D has always discouraged evil PCs. But if you want to play an evil campaign, convert away! If you convert BoVD well, you can have bragging rights to say "I made evil PC rules before WotC!"
I read that and I don't understand why radiant damage has anything to do with Good.
You know what I think? Radiant powers should get bonuses when used by homosexual PCs because the PHB describes radiant energy as "searing white light or shimmering colors" on page 55. I mean, c'mon that's clearly how gay D&D PCs are supposed to carry around their version of the universally accepted modern gay flag!
/sarcasm
Seriously dude, D&D is a fantasy game; radiance/light = good and necro-anything/darkness = evil is about the most classic element of the genre. That's not to say that the game can't be played otherwise; in fact I know that there's at least one cleric necrotic power. And nowhere do the books actually say that necrotic is evil and radiance is good, but it's a safe assumption in a typical D&D game for anyone except a computer.
TS
Have fun with your evil characters. :D
yeah! Thanks a bunch. I recall reading it before, I just didn't remember where.D&D has always discouraged evil PCs. But if you want to play an evil campaign, convert away! If you convert BoVD well, you can have bragging rights to say "I made evil PC rules before WotC!"
Not my quote. Change the name, please.
You know what I think? Radiant powers should get bonuses when used by homosexual PCs because the PHB describes radiant energy as "searing white light or shimmering colors" on page 55. I mean, c'mon that's clearly how gay D&D PCs are supposed to carry around their version of the universally accepted modern gay flag!
/sarcasm
Don't insult other people's intelligence, especially when you're exhibiting none yourself.
Seriously dude, D&D is a fantasy game; radiance/light = good and necro-anything/darkness = evil is about the most classic element of the genre. That's not to say that the game can't be played otherwise; in fact I know that there's at least one cleric necrotic power. And nowhere do the books actually say that necrotic is evil and radiance is good, but it's a safe assumption in a typical D&D game for anyone except a computer.
This explains nothing. Ever heard the phrase "unholy light"?
A great philosopher once said "Man fears the darkness, so he scrapes away at the edges of it with fire." That's it in a nutshell. Light vs dark, with the good guys in the illumination, is just how it's always been. Batman is special because he's the DARK Knight, because he defines convention. Light as bad and dark as good are not equally valid archetypes, they are just a (moderately popular) flip of a more traditional set.
/off-topic
There are two good reasons not to convert BoVD. The first is that the best stuff in it was all fluff. The value of the book is in introducing, well, vile darkness into your game. Hardcore evil for those uncomfortable with drawing on their dark sides for inspiration.
The second is that it's not just a difficult conversion of 3.5 to 4e, which is tricky enough with classes and prestige classes. 4e is a heroic, streamlined action system; lots of BoVD and 3.5 in general involved complexities both moral and mechanical 4e isn't built to handle, and out-of-combat is limited pretty heavily to skill checks and roleplay. You don't make undead and then buff them with stuff like Undead Lieutenant. You don't gain permanent control of creatures or target them with long-term effects. All the fun things Bestow Curse and its Greater evolution could do are outside the system. Granted, they always were, but there's no support at all now for things like that anywhere.
Basically, either all you're doing is spending a lot of time and energy where a flavor text rewrite and a Keyword swap would suffice, or you're adding an entire infrastructure to the game. A pointless undertaking or a vast one.
That said, if you want to try, go right ahead; 4e could use some darker shades for its palette.
I'm not sure I understand your complaint, Awesome_Dude; you can ignore the DMG's suggestion and keep your evil laser clerics, but you can't really challenge the assertion that light is archetypically good and dark is archetypically bad.
My issue isn't with darkness being associated with Evil, but necrotic energy. Necrotic energy isn't opposital to radiance, dark nor even necessarily Evil. Both of them are destructive forces.
Also, see Warlock for a description of Evilish radiance.
I think we all agree that Cthulhu isn't exactly a Good god, what with merely knowing he exists sending you insane, or something.
My issue isn't with darkness being associated with Evil, but necrotic energy. Necrotic energy isn't opposital to radiance, dark nor even necessarily Evil. Both of them are destructive forces.
Also, see Warlock for a description of Evilish radiance.
AD, I know you're not stupid so why do act so obtuse? No, necrotic energy is never defined as oppositional to radiant energy. And yes, certain powers do break the 'light = Good, dark = Evil' trope as I already pointed out. But like I said, only a computer needs certain generalities spelled out for it. Stop acting like a computer; it doesn't make you look sophisticated or cool.
TS
AD, I know you're not stupid so why do act so obtuse?
That's just how confused people behave in general. I'm totally furrowing my brows trying to understand this whole issue.
That's just how confused people behave in general. I'm totally furrowing my brows trying to understand this whole issue.
I find that hard to believe, but I don't know you so maybe you really don't understand. The prefix 'necro' means death, which is pretty much a universal domain of Evil. Yeah, yeah death is a natural part of life and there are cultures that emphasize that. But in practice death is scary to everyone, and therefore in fantasy it is often equated with Evil. So when the necro- prefix is added to any word, especially in the fantasy genre, that word falls within the domain of evil. As a generality.
The reverse is true of terms that involve light, such as radiant. So if necrotic generally equates to Evil and radiant generally equates to Good, it follows that necrotic is generally oppositional to radiant. Necrotic and radiant energy are both destructive, but so are the Holy Avenger and the Sword of Kas.
So there you go, I'm being open-minded.
TS
I find that hard to believe, but I don't know you so maybe you really don't understand. The prefix 'necro' means death, which is pretty much a universal domain of Evil. Yeah, yeah death is a natural part of life and there are cultures that emphasize that. But in practice death is scary to everyone, and therefore in fantasy it is often equated with Evil. So when the necro- prefix is added to any word, especially in the fantasy genre, that word falls within the domain of evil. As a generality.
The reverse is true of terms that involve light, such as radiant. So if necrotic generally equates to Evil and radiant generally equates to Good, it follows that necrotic is generally oppositional to radiant. Necrotic and radiant energy are both destructive, but so are the Holy Avenger and the Sword of Kas.
So there you go, I'm being open-minded.
TS
My question isn't so much "Why does necrotic energy fall under Evil?" (because that, at least, makes a lick of sense) as it is "Why does all Evil fall under necrotic energy?" Doesn't make much sense to me to restrict the various villain archetypes this way.
My question isn't so much "Why does necrotic energy fall under Evil?" (because that, at least, makes a lick of sense) as it is "Why does all Evil fall under necrotic energy?" Doesn't make much sense to me to restrict the various villain archetypes this way.
It doesn't. For example, a warlock has a few necrotic powers and the warlock class isn't inherently evil. Sure they might have pacts with infernals, but the way they use their power isn't evil if they choose not to do so.
Evil can exist in almost any form, and so can good. Its just that generally speaking, necrotic seems more evil oriented and this is most likely why.
Quoted from phb page 55
Necrotic: Purple-black energy that deadens flesh
and wounds the soul.
It was the general rule of thumb in 3rd edition that if you damaged or destroyed a soul, it was generally an evil act. Thats probably why necrotic is associated with evil. Good people typically won't harm souls. This is just a generalization, not a rule.