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Book with House Rules stuff in it?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
pyromancer999
Sep 09, 2008 17:52:52 I'm online a lot, and I get exposed to a lot of rumours through chat rooms, blogs, etc. Anyways, I usually dismiss a rumour if i only hear of it a few times. However, I've been hearing on quite a few chat rooms that Wizards is going to take much of the best homebrew stuff, and compile it into a book, to be sold in stores, no name yet. What do you all think of this? Can someone who's got actual contact with someone from Wizards confirm this?

Also, I've heard of these possible candidates for whose work to go in it:

Wyld_Mutation (classes), Eldritch_Lord (contributor), ff6shadow (classes), Pigknight (classes), and Kouk (homebrew feats), amongst others. Other material rumouired to make it in is alternate pacts, some races, and feats besides Kouk's.
#2
ff6shadow
Sep 09, 2008 17:55:55 That would be pretty awesome, assuming we get some credit at the very least. Although I wouldn't say no to a little cash as well. It would be very bad ass to get my stuff in actual print.
#3
wyld_mutation
Sep 09, 2008 18:22:18 If they do that I request a copy. Seriously. If they include my stuff anyway.

And cash would be cool. Or maybe a job offer...

Hmmm... I need to adapt some more stuff now...

Who's up for Favored Soul? And maybe... Hmmm... Wow... I only play like 2 classes... I feel so ashamed...

Ummm.... Can you perhaps link to something where it's being discussed?
#4
squarecircle
Sep 09, 2008 20:18:16 Hm... I haven't heard anything like that. It would be cool, mind you, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Not saying it won't happen, just don't get your hopes up.

Would be cool, though, definitely.
#5
ff6shadow
Sep 09, 2008 20:31:25 I was just at the future release board and saw a post about this section in that big block of legal nonsense every agrees to when signing up. I didn't think anybody ever read that crap but this got my attention.

1. User Content
By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction.

After reading the real thing and seeing that that is fairly accurate, I'm not likely to post anymore content on this board, and I'll probably remove every bt of custom content I have posted. It's a big pile of bull****, and I won't deal with it.
#6
squarecircle
Sep 09, 2008 20:58:48
I was just at the future release board and saw a post about this section in that big block of legal nonsense every agrees to when signing up. I didn't think anybody ever read that crap but this got my attention.

1. User Content
By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction.

After reading the real thing and seeing that that is fairly accurate, I'm not likely to post anymore content on this board, and I'll probably remove every bt of custom content I have posted. It's a big pile of bull****, and I won't deal with it.

I knew about that clause shortly after I started posting. That clause may be the cause of the rumors, and if that's the case, I doubt even moreso that Wizards would do that.

It looks bad on the face of it, but really I think WotC is just covering their bases, here. They don't want to come out with something on their own that just happens to be similar to someone's homebrew and then get sued for it, so they pre-emptively said, "Well its ours anyway, so it doesn't matter if we stole it from you or not." IMHO, they're just avoiding lawsuits, with no real plan of using people's homebrew creations.

That said, that clause is my primary reason for keeping most of my homebrew stuff off-site. It kinda sucks developing homebrew classes and the like without the help of the forum, but I'd like to keep my IP so it's worth it to me.
#7
wyld_mutation
Sep 10, 2008 7:05:52 Personally? I don't really care.

They can cover the bases they want, It's not like anything I create they'll use anyway.

It's still bull****
#8
rowl
Sep 10, 2008 7:38:12
I'm online a lot, and I get exposed to a lot of rumours through chat rooms, blogs, etc. Anyways, I usually dismiss a rumour if i only hear of it a few times. However, I've been hearing on quite a few chat rooms that Wizards is going to take much of the best homebrew stuff, and compile it into a book, to be sold in stores, no name yet. What do you all think of this? Can someone who's got actual contact with someone from Wizards confirm this?

Also, I've heard of these possible candidates for whose work to go in it:

Wyld_Mutation (classes), Eldritch_Lord (contributor), ff6shadow (classes), Pigknight (classes), and Kouk (homebrew feats), amongst others. Other material rumouired to make it in is alternate pacts, some races, and feats besides Kouk's.

Yeah, I can't see them ever doing this.

That clause in the EULA is pretty standard, like sqaurecircle said, it's a matter of making sure something they release isn't so similar to something on the site that someone figures they've got a actionable lawsuit.

One of Kouk's Dragonborn feats is a good example. His 'Arcing Breath' was already replicated in the Dragonborn article for Dragon magazine as 'Hurl Breath', though I really don't think that the author of the article was aware of Kouk's post:
http://www.wizards.com/files/365_EcologyOTDragonborn.pdf

This is a perfect example of the problem with having a House Rules forum on a website in combination with a release schedule for a series of books/rules as the basis of a marketing model. They may have thought up a lot of stuff already (let's assume they have an in-house only Rules Ideas forum) but haven't published it because the book that they want to put it in is slated to be released much later. The concept of Familiars is another good example.

The players need a place to get some peer review for their work, and the best place for that is a place where we all know others will come to congregate with similar interests. But the company still needs to protect itself.

I personally could care less about WotC bogarting my material, which I would be hard pressed to prove anyways. I just look on it as bragging rights to those I game with. "Look, WotC just published a feat that's almost identical to the one I posted on the boards!" It shows I have a quantifiable understanding of the rules concepts and mechanics as well as a solid view of what else is really needed to progress the game concept. I can't write a story to save my life, so my DM style tends towards developing or redeveloping mechanics. Having something I conceived of first (presumably) in print just reinforces my confidence about that.
#9
wyld_mutation
Sep 10, 2008 7:52:32 There are some things if they print that they would have to borrow from the boards.

Simply because some people create truly unique mechanics.
#10
aluman
Sep 10, 2008 12:26:25 Nothing I have seen on the HouseRules boards is really that unique, no offense to the creators of the rules, almost all of it has seen print by some company or another, maybe not translated to 4E terms, but it was there.

The clause exsistance is also so that their technical violations of our copyrights by us merely posting can't be legally enforced. (most corporate sites have similar clauses, really WotC's is more generous as you don't give up your copyright you just allow them to use it).
#11
wyld_mutation
Sep 10, 2008 13:43:31 True, much of it has seen print. I personally tend to adapt stuff from older editions.

However I have seen some creations which I very much doubt have been printed in other games.

We are dealig with a genre where nearly everything has been done at least once.
#12
eldritch_lord
Sep 10, 2008 13:56:42
Wyld_Mutation (classes), Eldritch_Lord (contributor), ff6shadow (classes), Pigknight (classes), and Kouk (homebrew feats), amongst others.

Do you know what is meant by "contributor" for me, assuming that's their term and not yours? Are we talking "We're going through the three Compendiums and grabbing stuff," or "He's done monsters and classes, not just classes, so we're not saying 'classes'," or "We're doing stuff with the DM's Toolkit," or what?

Otherwise, I'm flattered. I haven't posted any homebrew stuff in a while since I've been really busy, but this might motivate me to finish a few conversions.
#13
pyromancer999
Sep 10, 2008 15:32:23 Well, that's my term. anyway, it means that you've compiled stuff, and contributed advice to things.
#14
aluman
Sep 10, 2008 17:04:24
True, much of it has seen print. I personally tend to adapt stuff from older editions.

However I have seen some creations which I very much doubt have been printed in other games.

We are dealig with a genre where nearly everything has been done at least once.

Yes and its entirely possible for designs in Wizards to be working on a similar conversion as something else Here, beyond the simple fact that without some kind of permission they technically are violating your copyrights by merely having it posted.
#15
eldritch_lord
Sep 11, 2008 11:50:49
Well, that's my term. anyway, it means that you've compiled stuff, and contributed advice to things.

Makes sense. In that case, I'm all for it.
#16
pyromancer999
Sep 11, 2008 15:09:10 It all is sort of violating your rights. Still, at least you might get recognized, and if you ever apply for a job at Wizards, if they want proof that you can make material, you can say: "I made this". Then they'll be thinking, " Oh ****, that's the kid we stole the stuff from. the stuff he makes is good." then you get the job. That, or give them a huge court case for stealing your stuff.
#17
theninjad
Sep 11, 2008 16:12:58 I don't think a book like this will happen. If you want an official answer, your best bet on the boards would probably be to go to Future Releases but I would contact WotC directly if you really want to know.

After reading that bit up there I will not be posting any more here. Though I doubt it is so they can steal as much as it is to avoid getting sued.
#18
Steveman
Sep 11, 2008 16:22:49 And this is why I never post finalized versions of my materials here. Once I get my actual website back online I'll be able to link to there, but until then... blah.
#19
pyromancer999
Sep 11, 2008 16:26:48 Still, It's inevitable that, even if not right now, sometime that this book will be made.
#20
Steveman
Sep 11, 2008 16:30:42 That's basically what the first Fiend Folio was. Just a bunch of homebrew monsters in one big bad book o' doom.
#21
theninjad
Sep 11, 2008 16:59:01
Still, It's inevitable that, even if not right now, sometime that this book will be made.

I disagree and agree.

I disagree because a real book like this may never be made.

I kind of agree, though, because this is much like what Dungeon and Dragon are.
#22
rowl
Sep 12, 2008 0:16:53 You guys citing legal issues need to understand that you'd never be able to make your prima facia case because you'd have no evidence that WotC wasn't developing the same material when you made your post, or that the specific developer(s) for that material were even aware of your post. You'd lose before the case ever got off the ground.
#23
Steveman
Sep 12, 2008 1:15:25 The part that should concern people isn't the homebrew gaming material (as wording is the only thing can can be protected with any reliability), but any accompanying art or fiction.
If I draw a picture, host it on my deviantart account (which copyrights the image and has a legally supported creative commons/license system) then host a copy of that image in my photobucket account and link to the pic, WotC's ToS claims they now own a free license of that pic and can use it for anything they want.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 pyromancer999 Sep 09, 2008 17:52:52	I'm online a lot, and I get exposed to a lot of rumours through chat rooms, blogs, etc. Anyways, I usually dismiss a rumour if i only hear of it a few times. However, I've been hearing on quite a few chat rooms that Wizards is going to take much of the best homebrew stuff, and compile it into a book, to be sold in stores, no name yet. What do you all think of this? Can someone who's got actual contact with someone from Wizards confirm this? Also, I've heard of these possible candidates for whose work to go in it: Wyld_Mutation (classes), Eldritch_Lord (contributor), ff6shadow (classes), Pigknight (classes), and Kouk (homebrew feats), amongst others. Other material rumouired to make it in is alternate pacts, some races, and feats besides Kouk's.
#2 ff6shadow Sep 09, 2008 17:55:55	That would be pretty awesome, assuming we get some credit at the very least. Although I wouldn't say no to a little cash as well. It would be very bad ass to get my stuff in actual print.
#3 wyld_mutation Sep 09, 2008 18:22:18	If they do that I request a copy. Seriously. If they include my stuff anyway. And cash would be cool. Or maybe a job offer... Hmmm... I need to adapt some more stuff now... Who's up for Favored Soul? And maybe... Hmmm... Wow... I only play like 2 classes... I feel so ashamed... Ummm.... Can you perhaps link to something where it's being discussed?
#4 squarecircle Sep 09, 2008 20:18:16	Hm... I haven't heard anything like that. It would be cool, mind you, but I wouldn't hold my breath. Not saying it won't happen, just don't get your hopes up. Would be cool, though, definitely.
#5 ff6shadow Sep 09, 2008 20:31:25	I was just at the future release board and saw a post about this section in that big block of legal nonsense every agrees to when signing up. I didn't think anybody ever read that crap but this got my attention. 1. User Content By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction. After reading the real thing and seeing that that is fairly accurate, I'm not likely to post anymore content on this board, and I'll probably remove every bt of custom content I have posted. It's a big pile of bull****, and I won't deal with it.
#6 squarecircle Sep 09, 2008 20:58:48	I was just at the future release board and saw a post about this section in that big block of legal nonsense every agrees to when signing up. I didn't think anybody ever read that crap but this got my attention. 1. User Content By posting or submitting any text, images, designs, video, sound, code, data, lists, or other materials or information (such User-submitted content, collectively, "User Content") to or through a Site, including without limitation on any User profile page, you hereby irrevocably grant to Wizards, its affiliates and sublicensees, a worldwide, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, non-exclusive, and fully sub-licensable license, to use, reproduce, modify, adapt, publish, translate, create derivative works from, distribute, perform and display such User Content (in whole or in part) in any media and to incorporate the User Content into other works in any format or medium now known or later developed. The foregoing grants shall include the right to exploit any proprietary rights in such User Content, including but not limited to rights under copyright, trademark, service mark or patent laws under any relevant jurisdiction. After reading the real thing and seeing that that is fairly accurate, I'm not likely to post anymore content on this board, and I'll probably remove every bt of custom content I have posted. It's a big pile of bull****, and I won't deal with it. I knew about that clause shortly after I started posting. That clause may be the cause of the rumors, and if that's the case, I doubt even moreso that Wizards would do that. It looks bad on the face of it, but really I think WotC is just covering their bases, here. They don't want to come out with something on their own that just happens to be similar to someone's homebrew and then get sued for it, so they pre-emptively said, "Well its ours anyway, so it doesn't matter if we stole it from you or not." IMHO, they're just avoiding lawsuits, with no real plan of using people's homebrew creations. That said, that clause is my primary reason for keeping most of my homebrew stuff off-site. It kinda sucks developing homebrew classes and the like without the help of the forum, but I'd like to keep my IP so it's worth it to me.
#7 wyld_mutation Sep 10, 2008 7:05:52	Personally? I don't really care. They can cover the bases they want, It's not like anything I create they'll use anyway. It's still bull****
#8 rowl Sep 10, 2008 7:38:12	I'm online a lot, and I get exposed to a lot of rumours through chat rooms, blogs, etc. Anyways, I usually dismiss a rumour if i only hear of it a few times. However, I've been hearing on quite a few chat rooms that Wizards is going to take much of the best homebrew stuff, and compile it into a book, to be sold in stores, no name yet. What do you all think of this? Can someone who's got actual contact with someone from Wizards confirm this? Also, I've heard of these possible candidates for whose work to go in it: Wyld_Mutation (classes), Eldritch_Lord (contributor), ff6shadow (classes), Pigknight (classes), and Kouk (homebrew feats), amongst others. Other material rumouired to make it in is alternate pacts, some races, and feats besides Kouk's. Yeah, I can't see them ever doing this. That clause in the EULA is pretty standard, like sqaurecircle said, it's a matter of making sure something they release isn't so similar to something on the site that someone figures they've got a actionable lawsuit. One of Kouk's Dragonborn feats is a good example. His 'Arcing Breath' was already replicated in the Dragonborn article for Dragon magazine as 'Hurl Breath', though I really don't think that the author of the article was aware of Kouk's post: http://www.wizards.com/files/365_EcologyOTDragonborn.pdf This is a perfect example of the problem with having a House Rules forum on a website in combination with a release schedule for a series of books/rules as the basis of a marketing model. They may have thought up a lot of stuff already (let's assume they have an in-house only Rules Ideas forum) but haven't published it because the book that they want to put it in is slated to be released much later. The concept of Familiars is another good example. The players need a place to get some peer review for their work, and the best place for that is a place where we all know others will come to congregate with similar interests. But the company still needs to protect itself. I personally could care less about WotC bogarting my material, which I would be hard pressed to prove anyways. I just look on it as bragging rights to those I game with. "Look, WotC just published a feat that's almost identical to the one I posted on the boards!" It shows I have a quantifiable understanding of the rules concepts and mechanics as well as a solid view of what else is really needed to progress the game concept. I can't write a story to save my life, so my DM style tends towards developing or redeveloping mechanics. Having something I conceived of first (presumably) in print just reinforces my confidence about that.
#9 wyld_mutation Sep 10, 2008 7:52:32	There are some things if they print that they would have to borrow from the boards. Simply because some people create truly unique mechanics.
#10 aluman Sep 10, 2008 12:26:25	Nothing I have seen on the HouseRules boards is really that unique, no offense to the creators of the rules, almost all of it has seen print by some company or another, maybe not translated to 4E terms, but it was there. The clause exsistance is also so that their technical violations of our copyrights by us merely posting can't be legally enforced. (most corporate sites have similar clauses, really WotC's is more generous as you don't give up your copyright you just allow them to use it).
#11 wyld_mutation Sep 10, 2008 13:43:31	True, much of it has seen print. I personally tend to adapt stuff from older editions. However I have seen some creations which I very much doubt have been printed in other games. We are dealig with a genre where nearly everything has been done at least once.
#12 eldritch_lord Sep 10, 2008 13:56:42	Wyld_Mutation (classes), Eldritch_Lord (contributor), ff6shadow (classes), Pigknight (classes), and Kouk (homebrew feats), amongst others. Do you know what is meant by "contributor" for me, assuming that's their term and not yours? Are we talking "We're going through the three Compendiums and grabbing stuff," or "He's done monsters and classes, not just classes, so we're not saying 'classes'," or "We're doing stuff with the DM's Toolkit," or what? Otherwise, I'm flattered. I haven't posted any homebrew stuff in a while since I've been really busy, but this might motivate me to finish a few conversions.
#13 pyromancer999 Sep 10, 2008 15:32:23	Well, that's my term. anyway, it means that you've compiled stuff, and contributed advice to things.
#14 aluman Sep 10, 2008 17:04:24	True, much of it has seen print. I personally tend to adapt stuff from older editions. However I have seen some creations which I very much doubt have been printed in other games. We are dealig with a genre where nearly everything has been done at least once. Yes and its entirely possible for designs in Wizards to be working on a similar conversion as something else Here, beyond the simple fact that without some kind of permission they technically are violating your copyrights by merely having it posted.
#15 eldritch_lord Sep 11, 2008 11:50:49	Well, that's my term. anyway, it means that you've compiled stuff, and contributed advice to things. Makes sense. In that case, I'm all for it.
#16 pyromancer999 Sep 11, 2008 15:09:10	It all is sort of violating your rights. Still, at least you might get recognized, and if you ever apply for a job at Wizards, if they want proof that you can make material, you can say: "I made this". Then they'll be thinking, " Oh ****, that's the kid we stole the stuff from. the stuff he makes is good." then you get the job. That, or give them a huge court case for stealing your stuff.
#17 theninjad Sep 11, 2008 16:12:58	I don't think a book like this will happen. If you want an official answer, your best bet on the boards would probably be to go to Future Releases but I would contact WotC directly if you really want to know. After reading that bit up there I will not be posting any more here. Though I doubt it is so they can steal as much as it is to avoid getting sued.
#18 Steveman Sep 11, 2008 16:22:49	And this is why I never post finalized versions of my materials here. Once I get my actual website back online I'll be able to link to there, but until then... blah.
#19 pyromancer999 Sep 11, 2008 16:26:48	Still, It's inevitable that, even if not right now, sometime that this book will be made.
#20 Steveman Sep 11, 2008 16:30:42	That's basically what the first Fiend Folio was. Just a bunch of homebrew monsters in one big bad book o' doom.
#21 theninjad Sep 11, 2008 16:59:01	Still, It's inevitable that, even if not right now, sometime that this book will be made. I disagree and agree. I disagree because a real book like this may never be made. I kind of agree, though, because this is much like what Dungeon and Dragon are.
#22 rowl Sep 12, 2008 0:16:53	You guys citing legal issues need to understand that you'd never be able to make your prima facia case because you'd have no evidence that WotC wasn't developing the same material when you made your post, or that the specific developer(s) for that material were even aware of your post. You'd lose before the case ever got off the ground.
#23 Steveman Sep 12, 2008 1:15:25	The part that should concern people isn't the homebrew gaming material (as wording is the only thing can can be protected with any reliability), but any accompanying art or fiction. If I draw a picture, host it on my deviantart account (which copyrights the image and has a legally supported creative commons/license system) then host a copy of that image in my photobucket account and link to the pic, WotC's ToS claims they now own a free license of that pic and can use it for anything they want.