Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Mist-Bound Mar 31, 2011 3:22:03	Way, way back in the days when Dragon Magazine was a printed text, in issue #313, I believe, there was an article called "Born of Death", which introduced four templates representing "half-dead" - beings that were one half living being and one half undead. The Fetch (Half-Ghost), the Gheden (Half-Walking Dead), the Ghul (Half-Ghoul) and the Khatane (Half-Vampire). It also included the Mortif, or deathtouched - the half-dead equivalent of a tiefling or aasimar. With the Dragon eZine's article "Playing Dhampyr", by Brian R. James, the Khatane lives again in 4e, as the first of the "Bloodline Races". I like this very much. But I also like the other Half-Dead, which so far have no 4e translations and aren't likely to get official ones. So, I come here to ask; would anyone be willing to give me a hand in creating "Bloodline Races" for the Fetch, Gheden and Ghul? And Perhaps even culminating in the 4eification of the Mortif? I'll start with the Ghul, as this is a Half-Dead I have some vague ideas for. In addition to the qualities list in the spoiler block below, as with any Half-Dead, the Ghul has certain boons. I won't bother listing them because I'm unsure of how relevant they are, amounting as they do to turning bonuses, detecting and being turned as undead, slowed aging, immunity to energy drain, fortification, resistance to negative energy, darkvision and a chance of rising as undead upon death. Ghul Ghouls, lacedons and ghasts occasionally transform expectant mothers into their own kind. In most cases, the child does not survive the change. When it does, a ghul is the result. A rare few ghuls survive to adulthood thanks to a protective instinct within their ghoulish mothers. Those raised in the company of ghouls tend to be spiteful and self-loathing, while those who manage to enter human society are often persecuted for their uncouth dietary needs. Ghuls are fearsome creatures. They are gaunt, almost emaciated, with rough, leathery skin. Sharp teeth fill their mouths and long tongues loll out between yellowed fangs. They have black, green, pale purple, or chalk white skin, and pupilless yellow, red, or green eyes that glow faintly in low light. Unless a ghul takes special care to bathe frequently, it stinks of carrion and dried blood. Attacks: a ghul gains a natural Bite Attack dealing the appropriate damage for a creature of its Size Category, which counts as a Natural Secondary Attack when the Full Attack option is used. Special Attacks Paralysis (Ex): like any true ghoul, a ghul can deliver a paralyzing blow with either an unarmed or bite attack. The victim must pass a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 ghul's HD + ghul's Charisma modifier) or be Paralyzed for 1D4+1 minutes. The ghul may use its Paralysis attack once per day per Hit Dice it has, and this attack does not work on elves. Special Qualities Gruesome Hunger (Ex): a ghul's digestive system is orientated towards the consumption of carrion above all else. Consequently, ghuls can eat food that is raw or in any stage of putrefaction without suffering even the slightest ill effect... but, like their undead kin, they crave the flesh of sentient creatures. Every six days, a ghul must make a DC 15 Will save; if this succeeds, they stave off the effect of the hunger for another day, continuing to have to make this save until they fail. Once the Will save is failed, the ghul has until the moonrise of the next day to consume an amount of raw or rotten flesh from an intelligent creature equal to 1/10th of the ghul's bodyweight. If they fail to eat this much, then they become sickened until they have eaten the aforementioned type of flesh- in this case, they must consume an amount, within a single 24 hour period, equal to 1/2 the ghul's bodyweight. Immunities (Ex): ghuls are immune to any ingested poison, as well as to all diseases. It gains a +4 racial bonus to saves against other kinds of poison. Ghuls are immune to odor-based attacks (such as a ghast's stench) and to the paralysis attacks of ghoul-kin (ghouls, lacedons, ghasts and ghuls). Abilities: +2 Strength, +4 Dexterity, +4 Wisdom, +2 Charisma Skills: +2 racial bonus to Hide, Climb, Jump and Move Silently Level Adjustment: +3
#2 pluisjen Mar 31, 2011 3:40:18	I can certainly give you a hand, if you like. The Paralysed condition no longer exists in 4e. Personally I'd go for adding an Immobilised if the secondary attack hits. You can make it until end of next turn for 1st level, and then save ends at 21st level. Number of rounds equal to relevant modifier is way too long, that's like 6 turns at 11th level, going up to 8. Also a main feature of the Ghoul is their bite, which hurts for a lot if the target is immobilised... so maybe give them either an encounter power that deals good damage but requires an immobilised target, or bonus damage to all attacks against immobilised targets. Regaining health at will is probably too much, especially that many points. However temp HP equal to an ability modifier, or ability mod + 1/2 level once per encounter would probably be useful and fair. In addition, a feat to grant enhanced resistance to disease and poison would be nice (like a bonus to saving throws against poison and/or Endurance checks to beat a disease)
#3 Mist-Bound Mar 31, 2011 5:34:16	Thank you for your advice; that sounds very helpful indeed. Are those ideas intended to just be Heroic tier feats, or a mixture of Heroic and Paragon tier feats? And yes, I meant Immobilized when I said Paralyzed.
#4 pluisjen Mar 31, 2011 5:36:20	It's mostly Heroic Tier, though you could scale some of it up for Paragon and Epic. I can't really find any Dhampyr material on the compendium (anyone know what I need to look for?) so I'm not totally sure on what kind of other things I could do.
#5 Mist-Bound Mar 31, 2011 13:39:44	Well, if it helps, this is the basic gist of the Dhampyr feats, as exist in my copy of the Dragon Magazine Annual. Vampiric Heritage - Blood Drain racial power, +2 to Perception checks made to detect dhampyrs and undead, you are considered a vampire for effects that relate to vampires. Heroic Tier Vampire Alacrity - +1 speed Mist Form - swap a 10th level or higher Utility for the Daily racial utility Mist Form Night's Sight - gain Lowlight Vision Paragon Tier Bloodied Regeneration - swap a 10th level or higher Utility for the Daily racial utility Bloodied Regeneration Dominating Gaze - swap a 15th level or higher Daily attack for Dominating Gaze Savage Bite - you can use Blood Drain on enemies that grant you combat advantage, not just enemies you have grabbed Epic Tier Scent of Blood - you have combat advantage against any living enemy that is Bloodied I already have vague thoughts on what feats might look like based on your suggestions, but I just thought I'd give you a chance to digest this information first.
#6 rampant Mar 31, 2011 16:27:12	Maybe a theme, the bloodline feats are so clumsy sometimes.
#7 Mist-Bound Apr 01, 2011 2:07:48	Maybe so, but I know how to make feats, I don't really know how to make a Theme. Anyway, here's a crude attempt at the Ghul's first array of racial feats... Ghoulish Heritage (Bloodline) Prerequisite: Living Humanoid Effect: You gain the Ghoul's Paralysis racial encounter power. You gain a +2 bonus to Endurance checks made to throw off a disease. Heroic Tier Savage the Weak Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: When attacking a foe that is Immobilized, Restrained or Stunned with an at-will or basic melee attack, you deal additional damage equal to one half your character level. Ghoulish Claws Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: Your fingers sprout vicious talons that can be used as weapons. They are +2 proficiency, deal 1D6 damage, count as both the Unarmed and Light Blades categories, and have the Finesse and Off-Hand properties. You can enchant and disenchant your claws as you can any weapon. Disenchanting your claws does not destroy them. Carrion-Eater's Fortitude Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: You gain a +4 bonus to saving throws against poison and to avoid being infected with a disease. Flesheater Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: You may swap a Utility power of level 2 or higher for the Feast on the Fallen racial utility power. Paragon Tier Unclean Ichors Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage, Level 11 Effect: You gain Poison Resistance equal to 5 + 1/2 character level. Ghoul's Paralysis Racial Encounter Attack Infusing your attack with ghoulish energy, you leave an opponent incapable of fighting against you. Free Action Trigger: You hit a target with an at-will attack or a melee basic attack Effect: You may make a secondary attack (primary ability score modifier +3/6/9 vs. Will) against the target. Success causes them to be Immobilized until the end of your next turn. Special: At 21st level, a target is Immobilized (Save Ends). Feast On The Fallen Racial Encounter Utility Wolfing down flesh from a newly slain foe, you feel new strength infuse you. Minor Action Prerequisite: A non-minion enemy in a square adjacent to you is reduced to zero or fewer hit points. Effect: You regain lost hit points equal to one half your character level (round up).
#8 pluisjen Apr 01, 2011 7:42:16	I think the Heritage is too good right now, it gives you two excellent powers. I also think that Paralysis needs an attack bonus or it's going to miss all the time; I think it would need +3/+6/+9 to hit to compensate for not having an implement / feats to boost it / etc You can probably split off the +1/2 level damage to Immobilised to another feat, and expand on it (Immobilised, Stunned, Restrained, for clarity) Then you can add a minor benefit to the Heritage instead, to compensate. Maybe even the +2 Endurance against diseases, because that's too weak for a Feat (Skill Focus gives +3 to all Endurance) Then you can change the Fortitude feat to give a +4 to saving throws against Poison and to resist becoming infected with Diseases. The others look pretty good.
#9 Mist-Bound Apr 01, 2011 14:04:12	Okay, I've edited the feats as per your suggestion; how do they look, now? Once they're balanced, would you be willing to help me cook up a final array of paragon and epic feats, as well as paragon paths for the Ghul, before moving on to the Fetch, Gheden and/or Mortif?
#10 Mist-Bound Apr 01, 2011 14:15:58	Glitzing fricking... for some reason, it won't show any changes if I edit the last post, so I'll have to repost the updated version here. Ghoulish Heritage (Bloodline) Prerequisite: Living Humanoid Effect: You gain the Ghoul's Paralysis racial encounter power. You gain a +2 bonus to Endurance checks made to throw off a disease. Heroic Tier Savage the Weak Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: When attacking a foe that is Immobilized, Restrained or Stunned with an at-will or basic melee attack, you deal additional damage equal to one half your character level. Ghoulish Claws Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: Your fingers sprout vicious talons that can be used as weapons. They are +2 proficiency, deal 1D6 damage, count as both the Unarmed and Light Blades categories, and have the Finesse and Off-Hand properties. You can enchant and disenchant your claws as you can any weapon. Disenchanting your claws does not destroy them. Carrion-Eater's Fortitude Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: You gain a +4 bonus to saving throws against poison and to avoid being infected with a disease. Flesheater Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage Effect: You may swap a Utility power of level 2 or higher for the Feast on the Fallen racial utility power. Paragon Tier Unclean Ichors Prerequisite: Ghoulish Heritage, Level 11 Effect: You gain Poison Resistance equal to 5 + 1/2 character level. Ghoul's Paralysis Racial Encounter Attack Infusing your attack with ghoulish energy, you leave an opponent incapable of fighting against you. Free Action Trigger: You hit a target with an at-will attack or a melee basic attack Effect: You may make a secondary attack (primary ability score modifier +3/6/9 vs. Will) against the target. Success causes them to be Immobilized until the end of your next turn. Special: At 21st level, a target is Immobilized (Save Ends). Feast On The Fallen Racial Encounter Utility Wolfing down flesh from a newly slain foe, you feel new strength infuse you. Minor Action Prerequisite: A non-minion enemy in a square adjacent to you is reduced to zero or fewer hit points. Effect: You regain lost hit points equal to one half your character level (round up).
#11 Mist-Bound Apr 25, 2011 17:39:34	So, does nobody have any comments on my attempt at the Ghul racial feat tree? It was off to such a good start, too.
#12 rampant Apr 25, 2011 17:51:51	feast on the fallen is kinda wimpy
#13 Mist-Bound Apr 25, 2011 19:09:39	Oh? Why do you say that? What makes it "wimpy", and how might I fix it?
#14 rampant Apr 25, 2011 19:33:37	Well assuming you get it at level 2, you can use your utility power to heal a grand total of 1 hp, and 15 at level 30. Even for a low level utility it seems underwhelming, and considering you have to spend a feat to get it that seems like a waste on two levels. I'd say increase the healing.
#15 Mist-Bound Apr 25, 2011 20:02:46	In the beginning, I was for the idea of making it an At-Will Utility, but I decided against it because it strained balance (healing whenever you want, without using a healing surge) and believability (there's gluttonous, there's ravenous, and then there's stupid, and that goes way into "Stupid" territory). But, anyway, I can understand your reasoning behind that. How much healing would you recommend Feast on the Fallen grant?
#16 rampant Apr 25, 2011 21:22:43	What about spending a surge to rack up surge value +1/2 level?
#17 Mist-Bound Apr 25, 2011 21:37:35	Hmm... I think that's a possibility, I'm not really too familiar with this aspect of D&D. It certainly sounds better then "regain a number of hit points equal to your character level plus the level of the creature you are consuming" - much simpler to handle. Alright, I'm for it. So, what about the other feats? And do you have any suggestions for how to give the Ghul some Epic Tier feats or paragon paths? Once it's done, I'll need to move on to the Fetch and Gheden...
#18 rampant Apr 25, 2011 21:58:59	Why is savage the weak limited to at-wills or basic melee?
#19 Mist-Bound Apr 25, 2011 22:12:05	Because as far as I knew, allowing a player to stack a secondary attack to immobilize a foe onto any power would be overpowered.
#20 rampant Apr 26, 2011 0:40:49	But savage the weak doesn't immobilize anyone. It just increases the damage dealt to immobilized targets.
#21 Mist-Bound Apr 26, 2011 1:07:31	Ah, right, sorry, I'd gotten my feats mixed up. When you put it like that, then yes, that doesn't make sense - Savage the Weak should be upgraded to just a generic damage bonus against Immobilized victims.
#22 rampant Apr 26, 2011 1:14:24	The claws feat needs some editing, and what is the finesse property? It's also kind of underpowered, It should be at least equal to a superior weapon.
#23 Mist-Bound Apr 26, 2011 1:27:29	Finesse, I believe, allows the wielder to substitute Dexterity for their attacking stat instead of Strength - I'm not sure now if it's still present in 4e, might be in the Adventurer's Vault. What is the editing it needs, and how is it underpowered? What do you mean by "making it equal to a Superior Weapon"?
#24 rampant Apr 26, 2011 2:36:01	Just a minor nitpick on the editing, a weapon HAS a proficiency bonus/damage dice/set of properties.  You've written it that the weapon IS a proficiency bonus. Finesse was a feat in 3e, that certain weapons were compatible with. It's not in 4e, and the ability to use a different ability score is not determined by the weapon in DnD 4e, that's gamma world you're thinking of. Anyway why would a player spend a feat on what equates to a less accurate short sword? The claw should be worth spending a feat on, and thus it should be roughly on par with superior weapons such as the katar, or a monk with improved unarmed damage.
#25 Mist-Bound Apr 26, 2011 4:28:05	I could have sworn that Adventurer's Vault has a new weapon feature called Finesse... anyway, you have a good point, so, what precise layout for the Claw's "profile" would you suggest? I don't currently have access to any of my D&D books.
#26 rampant Apr 26, 2011 10:03:18	I'll cut-paste something together from the gnoll feat and monk ability, Does +3 prof, 1d6 damage, brutal 1, off-hand, lightblade/unarmed work for you?
#27 Mist-Bound Apr 26, 2011 11:55:23	Yes, I think that sounds quite vicious and should work. What else needs working on?
#28 rampant Apr 26, 2011 22:29:27	When you make a weapon attack, you can use your claw, which is a weapon in the light blade and unarmed weapon groups. This weapon has the off-hand and brutal 1 weapon properties,  a +3 proficiency bonus, and it deals 1d6 damage. While you aren’t holding anything, you are considered have this weapon in each hand. You can enchant and disenchant your claws. When you disenchant your claws, they do not turn to dust. The flesh eater's fortitude could use some work, see poison is a keyword and as such you never save against it. You save against effects with the keyword, or that deal that kind of damage. Furthermore consider folding it into the poison resistance paragon feat because on it's own it's not a particularly attractive heroic tier feat.