Bringing Xenogears Into D&D 4e - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Bringing Xenogears Into D&D 4e

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
leliel
Dec 07, 2008 19:38:02 Now, I'm not suggesting that we create a Xenogears setting. That would probably cause people's minds to bleed.

However, I had the idea to inject some of the mythology of the game into my Magitek Space Pirates idea. You know, the gradual revelation that the reason they're linked to their ships is beacuse they contain Anima Relics, and the main villain is trying to revive Deus in a form he can control, stuff like that.

So how would you suggest doing this in a form that will allow the players to understand the story without taking crash courses in Jungian psychology?
#2
n647
Dec 07, 2008 21:30:27 that`sa hard question, regadless of the system...

The ideawoud be for the GM to havea very good understanding of it, and guide the players slowly trough the path to insanity, sorry, understanding ...

basically give themhints and little guides in portions they can diggst from one session to the next... I guess...
#3
Grimcleaver
Dec 09, 2008 4:29:01 Not sure what the problem would be. The tech side of things never seemed the hardest part of a Xenogears game. The Anima Relics power the Omnigears which are in turn draw power from the Zohar.

Where the game gets weird is if you start mutating everyone into Wels to recreate Deus, and have the Gazel ministry and Caine, and reincarnating characters playing out the separation anxiety of a kid aboard a long range military ship at the dawn of the world--or Wave Existances.

Not sure how deep you're planning on running the parallels. If it's just tech, that shouldn't be much of a problem. Just go grab all the technical details and naming conventions from the Xenogears Wiki and plug 'er in.

The setting only gets really deep into the really philosophical/psychoanalytical stuff once you start incorporating the actual backstory from the game.

Actually the combat system in Xenogears seems like it would work really nicely in 4e, since you have the whole thing where you choose between doing a bunch of quick (at will) attacks or a few really powerful ones (encounter/dailies)

Anyway if you've got some more questions, go ahead with em. I'd be more than happy to help out.
#4
ormiss
Dec 11, 2008 6:49:32 It's a tricky question, because it doesn't so much have to do with Xenogears (I was kind of hoping the thread would have stats for gears :P) but instead it's about plotting out secrets and revelations in general.

It's even tougher than in a video game or a book where you have absolute control of the flow of the narrative (though that can be more exhausting) because you never know what the PCs will say or do. From the basic point of view, I'd suggest taking the aspects of Xenogears you want to use, then break them down into parcels of information, like a series of revelations. I don't remember in detail the concepts surrounding the Anima Relics, so I'll use a (very) generic example:

1) Alpha is a big meanie; we've got to stop him.
2) Alpha is a dragon.
3) Actually, turns out we're dragons too.
4) All dragons are actually ghosts from another dimension.
5) That dimension is on a collision course with our dimension. When the dimensions collide, a cataclysm of weird consequences will occur. Not good.
6) Actually, we dragons are not FROM the other dimension, but rather, we spring into existence sparked by the energy generated by the conjunction of the two dimensions.
7) As long as the dragons exist, the dimensions will gain momentum in their collision course.
8) By cutting off the junctions between the worlds, the problem will be averted because the two worlds can no longer interact.
9) Actually, the junctions turn out to be the life source of us dragons. If we destroy them, so too will we die.
10) Turns out that the reason for this whole thing is that a dragon god existing in the other dimension wants to go home to our dimension.
11) That dragon god was exiled to the other dimension (tie this into a world history event previously established for bonus points).
12) We dragons are "shadows" of the dragon god, born through its attempts to return home... Each tendril it reaches out breached the dimensions like a grappling hook and created a focus- a dragon shadow- in our dimension. In other words, we. And that's why destroying the junctions- the breaches- will in turn destroy us.

Anyway, what I'd try to do is to parcel out the above revelations one at a time, and pace them so that the players have time to think about things between each plot point. You've got to let each revelation sink in before you make the next revelation. In Xenogears, most of the plot points were delivered in dialogue by various clever dudes, like Citan, Wiseman, and Grahf. In a campaign, it may go something like this:

While going about your business in Humbleton, you learn of Alpha being a big meanie. He's been stealing cuddles from the Carebears. Or maybe he's been raising salt taxes by way much to raise money for his army. But anyway, you go there to teach him a lesson. And then he turns into a dragon and flies away after the fight.
What's up with that? So you pursue him, and in the next confrontation, you begin to manifest your own powers, and Alpha tells you about how you guys are dragons too.
So you head off on a journey to find a really nifty sage who knows about this stuff. And you encounter resistance on the way. And then as you reach the gal's observatory atop a mountain, you help defend it from an invasion of mutated things from the other dimension, and then the sage tells you what she knows about how you are all ghosts from that dimension. And so on.

Of course, the whole connection with the dragons and everything deserves a backstory woven into the narrative. You'd want to drop hints and foreshadow all this stuff to some extent, so that it makes sense later. The PCs may not remember their first 7 years at all, for example. Why is that? Seems kind of weird, right? And like Fei in Xenogears, they may have been raised as orphans in various locations around the world (or in one location, and Alpha was the only guy who was separated, and that's why he's evil now). This is a whole challenge to itself, but I don't think it has to be that difficult. What I'd try to do is to foreshadow each plot point with a mystery. Like, for plot point 10, with the dragon god, you could have the PCs hear strange voices or whatever in their dreams or when they just wake up or something. They wouldn't realize what it was for a long time but it'll make sense when they finally get there.
Plot point 7 is tougher to foreshadow, but say, since all the PCs are dragons (in some way, maybe they can veer into dragon form?) they may have beefy dragon powers, and each time they use those powers, or each time they transform, something weird happens around them, or maybe monsters pop up, or people mutate, cows with five heads are born, or the sky gets a bit more purple by the minute. Something to suggest that SOMEHOW, the dragons are related to the whole mess.
And with plot point 4, while fighting these abominations from the other dimension, keep dropping hints that there's definitely a connection between the PCs and the invaders. Somehow they react, like maybe they're the only ones who can actually do damage (or full damage) to these things.

Foreshadowing is also important because not only do you want to let each revelation settle in before going to the next, but you also want to always keep the players wondering about something. There's got to be some mystery always on the horizon, awaiting explanation, and the next revelation will both explain it and raise further questions.
"But, if Beta is the missing seventh ascendant, why didn't the Temple Spire appear when she died?" Etc...

In a roleplaying campaign I'd recommend something though: keep things mutable. If you've got good players, they're going to think about what's going on, and hopefully they'll talk about it aloud, so you'll hear what they say. I've found (on a smaller scale) that players tend to leap to various conclusions - some of which you don't even understand how they reached - and sometimes these conclusions are more clever than what you had planned. So be open to altering the backstory and the "truth" to meet them halfway - IF merited. I'm not saying "change it so they're right," but sometimes it's fun to change it so that they're partly right. And their ideas sometimes give you ideas to make the story even cooler. But if you want to keep the sense of mystery (and it sounds like you do) don't tell them that you're changing it. :P And make sure they're still wrong about some things.

If you use their theories and ideas about what's going on around them, my feeling is that it will be easier to surprise them. If you know what they think, give them some credit for it, but twist everything so that there's both satisfaction and surprise. If they figure out right away that the Queen is a vampire because your hints weren't subtle enough (and nothing is subtle enough when it comes to vampires) you might decide that well, the Queen isn't a vampire - she's a werewolf - and maybe the hints they've been seeing come from the fact that someone ELSE is a vampire. Or maybe the Queen is just anemic and "sleeps through the days" because she keeps cutting herself shaving five inches of fur from her legs each time she turns into a werewolf. What an aggravation.

I hope you can salvage something out of what I said. :p
Could you tell us more about what you're looking to accomplish with this Xenogears style campaign idea? Do you want to use the story from Xenogears and mutate it to fit your campaign, or do you just want to do the same kind of mysterious, plot twist-filled story that Xenogears had, but about something else entirely?

I've been down this road a couple of times and my experience is that it's really tough to transplant a "feeling" onto a campaign. So if you're looking to do a campaign inspired by Xenogears, you may be better off trying to distill the things you liked in the game into concepts which are general enough that you can use them in an entirely different campaign.

And may I say:
"My fist is the divine breath! Blossom, o fallen seed, and draw upon thy hidden powers!! Grant unto thee the power of the glorious 'Mother of Destruction'!"

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 leliel Dec 07, 2008 19:38:02	Now, I'm not suggesting that we create a Xenogears setting. That would probably cause people's minds to bleed. However, I had the idea to inject some of the mythology of the game into my Magitek Space Pirates idea. You know, the gradual revelation that the reason they're linked to their ships is beacuse they contain Anima Relics, and the main villain is trying to revive Deus in a form he can control, stuff like that. So how would you suggest doing this in a form that will allow the players to understand the story without taking crash courses in Jungian psychology?
#2 n647 Dec 07, 2008 21:30:27	that`sa hard question, regadless of the system... The ideawoud be for the GM to havea very good understanding of it, and guide the players slowly trough the path to insanity, sorry, understanding ... basically give themhints and little guides in portions they can diggst from one session to the next... I guess...
#3 Grimcleaver Dec 09, 2008 4:29:01	Not sure what the problem would be. The tech side of things never seemed the hardest part of a Xenogears game. The Anima Relics power the Omnigears which are in turn draw power from the Zohar. Where the game gets weird is if you start mutating everyone into Wels to recreate Deus, and have the Gazel ministry and Caine, and reincarnating characters playing out the separation anxiety of a kid aboard a long range military ship at the dawn of the world--or Wave Existances. Not sure how deep you're planning on running the parallels. If it's just tech, that shouldn't be much of a problem. Just go grab all the technical details and naming conventions from the Xenogears Wiki and plug 'er in. The setting only gets really deep into the really philosophical/psychoanalytical stuff once you start incorporating the actual backstory from the game. Actually the combat system in Xenogears seems like it would work really nicely in 4e, since you have the whole thing where you choose between doing a bunch of quick (at will) attacks or a few really powerful ones (encounter/dailies) Anyway if you've got some more questions, go ahead with em. I'd be more than happy to help out.
#4 ormiss Dec 11, 2008 6:49:32	It's a tricky question, because it doesn't so much have to do with Xenogears (I was kind of hoping the thread would have stats for gears :P) but instead it's about plotting out secrets and revelations in general. It's even tougher than in a video game or a book where you have absolute control of the flow of the narrative (though that can be more exhausting) because you never know what the PCs will say or do. From the basic point of view, I'd suggest taking the aspects of Xenogears you want to use, then break them down into parcels of information, like a series of revelations. I don't remember in detail the concepts surrounding the Anima Relics, so I'll use a (very) generic example: 1) Alpha is a big meanie; we've got to stop him. 2) Alpha is a dragon. 3) Actually, turns out we're dragons too. 4) All dragons are actually ghosts from another dimension. 5) That dimension is on a collision course with our dimension. When the dimensions collide, a cataclysm of weird consequences will occur. Not good. 6) Actually, we dragons are not FROM the other dimension, but rather, we spring into existence sparked by the energy generated by the conjunction of the two dimensions. 7) As long as the dragons exist, the dimensions will gain momentum in their collision course. 8) By cutting off the junctions between the worlds, the problem will be averted because the two worlds can no longer interact. 9) Actually, the junctions turn out to be the life source of us dragons. If we destroy them, so too will we die. 10) Turns out that the reason for this whole thing is that a dragon god existing in the other dimension wants to go home to our dimension. 11) That dragon god was exiled to the other dimension (tie this into a world history event previously established for bonus points). 12) We dragons are "shadows" of the dragon god, born through its attempts to return home... Each tendril it reaches out breached the dimensions like a grappling hook and created a focus- a dragon shadow- in our dimension. In other words, we. And that's why destroying the junctions- the breaches- will in turn destroy us. Anyway, what I'd try to do is to parcel out the above revelations one at a time, and pace them so that the players have time to think about things between each plot point. You've got to let each revelation sink in before you make the next revelation. In Xenogears, most of the plot points were delivered in dialogue by various clever dudes, like Citan, Wiseman, and Grahf. In a campaign, it may go something like this: While going about your business in Humbleton, you learn of Alpha being a big meanie. He's been stealing cuddles from the Carebears. Or maybe he's been raising salt taxes by way much to raise money for his army. But anyway, you go there to teach him a lesson. And then he turns into a dragon and flies away after the fight. What's up with that? So you pursue him, and in the next confrontation, you begin to manifest your own powers, and Alpha tells you about how you guys are dragons too. So you head off on a journey to find a really nifty sage who knows about this stuff. And you encounter resistance on the way. And then as you reach the gal's observatory atop a mountain, you help defend it from an invasion of mutated things from the other dimension, and then the sage tells you what she knows about how you are all ghosts from that dimension. And so on. Of course, the whole connection with the dragons and everything deserves a backstory woven into the narrative. You'd want to drop hints and foreshadow all this stuff to some extent, so that it makes sense later. The PCs may not remember their first 7 years at all, for example. Why is that? Seems kind of weird, right? And like Fei in Xenogears, they may have been raised as orphans in various locations around the world (or in one location, and Alpha was the only guy who was separated, and that's why he's evil now). This is a whole challenge to itself, but I don't think it has to be that difficult. What I'd try to do is to foreshadow each plot point with a mystery. Like, for plot point 10, with the dragon god, you could have the PCs hear strange voices or whatever in their dreams or when they just wake up or something. They wouldn't realize what it was for a long time but it'll make sense when they finally get there. Plot point 7 is tougher to foreshadow, but say, since all the PCs are dragons (in some way, maybe they can veer into dragon form?) they may have beefy dragon powers, and each time they use those powers, or each time they transform, something weird happens around them, or maybe monsters pop up, or people mutate, cows with five heads are born, or the sky gets a bit more purple by the minute. Something to suggest that SOMEHOW, the dragons are related to the whole mess. And with plot point 4, while fighting these abominations from the other dimension, keep dropping hints that there's definitely a connection between the PCs and the invaders. Somehow they react, like maybe they're the only ones who can actually do damage (or full damage) to these things. Foreshadowing is also important because not only do you want to let each revelation settle in before going to the next, but you also want to always keep the players wondering about something. There's got to be some mystery always on the horizon, awaiting explanation, and the next revelation will both explain it and raise further questions. "But, if Beta is the missing seventh ascendant, why didn't the Temple Spire appear when she died?" Etc... In a roleplaying campaign I'd recommend something though: keep things mutable. If you've got good players, they're going to think about what's going on, and hopefully they'll talk about it aloud, so you'll hear what they say. I've found (on a smaller scale) that players tend to leap to various conclusions - some of which you don't even understand how they reached - and sometimes these conclusions are more clever than what you had planned. So be open to altering the backstory and the "truth" to meet them halfway - IF merited. I'm not saying "change it so they're right," but sometimes it's fun to change it so that they're partly right. And their ideas sometimes give you ideas to make the story even cooler. But if you want to keep the sense of mystery (and it sounds like you do) don't tell them that you're changing it. :P And make sure they're still wrong about some things. If you use their theories and ideas about what's going on around them, my feeling is that it will be easier to surprise them. If you know what they think, give them some credit for it, but twist everything so that there's both satisfaction and surprise. If they figure out right away that the Queen is a vampire because your hints weren't subtle enough (and nothing is subtle enough when it comes to vampires) you might decide that well, the Queen isn't a vampire - she's a werewolf - and maybe the hints they've been seeing come from the fact that someone ELSE is a vampire. Or maybe the Queen is just anemic and "sleeps through the days" because she keeps cutting herself shaving five inches of fur from her legs each time she turns into a werewolf. What an aggravation. I hope you can salvage something out of what I said. :p Could you tell us more about what you're looking to accomplish with this Xenogears style campaign idea? Do you want to use the story from Xenogears and mutate it to fit your campaign, or do you just want to do the same kind of mysterious, plot twist-filled story that Xenogears had, but about something else entirely? I've been down this road a couple of times and my experience is that it's really tough to transplant a "feeling" onto a campaign. So if you're looking to do a campaign inspired by Xenogears, you may be better off trying to distill the things you liked in the game into concepts which are general enough that you can use them in an entirely different campaign. And may I say: "My fist is the divine breath! Blossom, o fallen seed, and draw upon thy hidden powers!! Grant unto thee the power of the glorious 'Mother of Destruction'!"