| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| #1Thorvald_GrimbjornNov 11, 2010 19:47:33 | Hello, everyone! So, here's the thing: I love the Bard class, and I especially love the skald archetype for Bards. However, the current selection of Melee Weapon powers leaves much to be desired (particularly in the Heroic tier). On their own, they're fine, and some of them are very good; but they don't compare very well to the Implement powers. So, since "Arcane Power 2" is nowhere in sight thanks to the Essentials line, I wanted to offer some homebrewed alternative Melee Weapon powers, and I'd greatly appreciate any comments/criticisms on my proposals! (Very important note: None of these powers were made out of whole cloth; instead, they're simply revisions of currently existing powers. I'll highlight the changes to the original powers by writing them in italics.) Also, I don't really like very much the concept of retraining powers at higher levels. I can accept a lot in the interests of game balance and ease of play, but the idea that a character can forget a maneuver/spell/etc. to "make room" for a new one kind of breaks my suspension of disbelief. Usually I can work around that by choosing thematically similar powers (replacing a close melee power with another close melee power, for example) and coming up with an adequate justification (this maneuver is simply a more complex and powerful version of the old one, instead of spreading the arcane energies too thin by attacking several enemies at once this refined version of the old spell concentrates them on a single target, etc.), but since I'm homebrewing anyway, I thought I might as well go all the way and offer these new powers in the same format as the powers from the "Dark Sun Campaign Guide"'s character themes - that is, powers that have built-in higher-level versions of them and so don't need to be replaced with other, better powers. So, without further ado, here are my proposals! Inspiring Refrain (Bard Encounter Power 1): Change the power bonus to attack rolls to an untyped bonus to attack and damage rolls. At level 11, the bonus to attack and damage rolls increases to +2. Inspiring Refrain (Bard Encounter Power 1) (alternative proposal): Change the power bonus to attack rolls to an untyped bonus to attack rolls. At level 11, the bonus to attack rolls increases to +2. Inspiring Refrain (Bard Encounter Power 1) (alternative proposal 2): Add a +1 power bonus to damage rolls to the power's Hit effect. At level 11, the bonus to attack and damage rolls increases to +2. Charger's Call (Bard Encounter Power 3/13/23): Change the bonus to attack rolls to a bonus to attack and damage rolls. In the level 13 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 23 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier. Charger's Call (Bard Encounter Power 3/13/23) (alternative proposal): Change the "Virtue of Valor" line to: "In addition, each ally within 5 squares of you also gain a bonus to damage rolls while charging equal to 1 + your Constitution modifier." In the level 13 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 23 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier. Charger's Call (Bard Encounter Power 3/13/23) (alternative proposal 2): Change the "Virtue of Valor" line to: "In addition, each ally within 5 squares of you also gain a bonus to damage rolls while charging equal to 1 + your Constitution modifier." In the level 13 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 23 version, the power's area of effect increases to 10 squares. Cunning Ferocity (Bard Encounter Power 3/13/23): Change the bonus to damage rolls against the target to simply a bonus to damage rolls (that is, a bonus that can be used against any target). In the level 13 version, the power's damage increases to 2[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 23 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier. Scorpion's Claw Strike (Bard Encounter Power 7/17/27): Change the power's Hit line to: "2[W] + Charisma modifier damage. You can slide an ally within 5 squares of you to any space adjacent to the target." In the level 17 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 27 version, the Bard can slide any ally within 10 squares. Chillsong Stroke (Bard Encounter Power 7/17/27): In the level 17 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 27 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier. Echoes of the Guardian (Bard Daily Power 1): At level 21, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier. Slayer's Song (Bard Daily Power 1): At level 21, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier. Verse of Triumph (Bard Daily Power 1): Increase the power bonus to damage rolls and saving throws to +2. At level 21, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier. Verse of Triumph (Bard Daily Power 1) (alternative proposal): Increase the power bonus to damage rolls and saving throws to +2. At level 21, the bonus to saving throws increases to +3. Word of Mystic Warding (Bard Daily Power 1/15/25): In the level 15 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 25 version, the power's psychic damage inflicted when the target moves closer to the Bard's ally increases to 3 + Charisma modifier. Word of Mystic Warding (Bard Daily Power 1/15/25) (alternative proposal): In the level 15 version, the power's psychic damage inflicted when the target moves closer to the Bard's ally increases to 3 + Charisma modifier, and in the level 25 version, the power's psychic damage inflicted when the target moves closer to the Bard's ally increases to 6 + Charisma modifier. Hymn of the Daring Rescue (Bard Daily Power 9/19/29): Add "Miss: Half damage." to the power. In the level 19 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 29 version, the power's damage increases to 5[W] + Charisma modifier. Hymn of the Daring Rescue (Bard Daily Power 9/19/29) (alternative proposal): Add "Miss: Half damage." to the power. In the level 19 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 29 version, the Bard can choose an ally within 10 squares of him. Thunder Blade (Bard Daily Power 9/19/29): Add "Miss: Half damage." to the power. In the level 19 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 29 version, the distance the Bard can slide the target increases to 4 squares. Thunder Blade (Bard Daily Power 9/19/29) (alternative proposal): Add "Miss: Half damage." to the power. Increase the distance the Bard can slide the target of his attack to 3 squares. In the level 19 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 29 version, the distance the Bard can slide the target increases to 6 squares. So, that's it. Any comments and criticisms are more than welcome! ![]() EDIT: The main purpose of my revisions is to bring the Melee Weapon Bard's powers more in line with the Implement Bard's and Ranged Weapon Bard's - both of them have strong, meaningful powers, while the MW Bard's powers are mostly average. Likewise, a Bard can easily be a secondary Controller or a secondary Defender, but there is absolutely no way for him to be a secondary Striker. So the powers were revised in a way that, hopefully, one of the Bard's builds can be more than just "decent", and also at least try and play at being a secondary Striker. As for individual power revisions: Inspiring Refrain: At higher levels, this power should be able to compete with Paragon powers. In its upgraded form, Inspiring Refrain is a 2[W]+CHA power which gives a +2 untyped bonus to attack and damage rolls to all allies within 5 squares of the Bard. Is that too strong, compared to Couplet of Deceptive Weakness - which lets a Bard break an enemy's turn with a 1[W]+CHA attack that also grants a free MBA to an ally -, or Song of Summons, which teleports an ally to the Bard's side and gives him a +3-+5 power bonus to attack rolls? Would it perhaps be better to not add a bonus to damage rolls to the revised Inspiring Refrain? Or perhaps add the damage bonus, but keep both bonuses as power bonuses? Charger's Call/Cunning Ferocity: At higher levels, these powers' upgraded forms should be able to compete with 13th-level and 23rd-level powers - that is, Couplet of Deceptive Weakness (described above); Earthquake Strike (2[W]+CHA attack which knocks the enemy prone [essentially a stackable +2 bonus to attack rolls to all allies in melee, not to mention the movement control], gives a +3-+5 untyped bonus to damage rolls to all allies within 10 feet, and lets them knock enemies prone on a hit); and Weal and Woe, a 3[W] attack that gives a nearby ally a free saving throw with a +5 power bonus and a +4-+7 power bonus to attack rolls. How do they compare? Scorpion's Claw Strike/Chillsong Stroke: These powers' upgraded forms should be able to compete with 17th-level and 27th-level powers - Song of Summons (described above) and Surge of Valor (2[W]+CHA attack that gives a free MBA to all allies, with an additional +4-+7 untyped bonus to attack AND damage rolls). How do they compare? Echoes of the Guardian/Slayer's Song/Verse of Triumph: Nothing much to say here. The effects of these powers should stay useful throughout all tiers of play (though Verse of Triumph did go through a small buff to make it actually useful), so they only gain a single additional [W] at the Epic tier. Perhaps instead of gaining additional [W], their effects should improve a little bit? Word of Mystic Warding: This power's upgraded form should be able to compete with powers like Dance of the Biting Wind (-2 penalty to attack rolls [save ends] + poor man's Virtue of Cunning), Quick Steel Dance (help a Defender [other than a Fighter, who doesn't need your help] do his job), and Fraught with Failure (immobilization [save ends] + weakened [save ends]). How does it compare? Perhaps instead of adding another [W] at the Paragon tier, this power's effect should improve a little bit? Hymn of the Daring Rescue/Thunder Blade: These powers' upgraded forms should be able to compete with Increasing the Tempo (four extra basic attacks, no more than 2 against a single target) and Hero's Beacon (4[W]+CHA attack which deals radiant damage and heals allies for the rest of the encounter). How do they compare? Perhaps instead of adding another [W] to Hymn of the Daring Rescue at the Epic tier, its effect should improve a little bit? The addition of a "Miss: Half damage" line was to bring these powers in line with the other Heroic tier daily Bard attacks, and also to take advantage of their higher [W]. |
| #2misterarcaneNov 14, 2010 12:40:23 | So basically... you just increased the power of all the powers... why? I mean, what's the goal here? To take that which is already fairly balenced and make it imbalenced? To play your bard more like a striker? |
| #3dielzenNov 14, 2010 16:34:02 | Changing a lvl 5 daily to add 2w damage doesn't a level 25 daily make. If you simply want to add damage, you might want to look to another build type. |
| #4Thorvald_GrimbjornNov 14, 2010 19:51:24 | So basically... you just increased the power of all the powers... why? I mean, what's the goal here? To take that which is already fairly balenced and make it imbalenced? To play your bard more like a striker? Are they balanced, though? I mean, at level 1, an Implement Cunning Bard can deal 1d6+CHA damage to an enemy, slide him 2 squares, and then grant a free attack to an ally with a +3-+5 power bonus to the attack roll; an Implement Valorous Bard can deal 1d6+CHA damage to all enemies in a close blast 3 area, push them 2-4 squares, and slide all allies in the same area 2-4 squares - basically, he can rearrange the whole battlefield once per encounter. Meanwhile, the Melee Bard can... Deal 2[W]+CHA damage to an enemy and give a +1 power bonus to all allies within 5 squares. The same pattern repeats all throughout the Heroic and early-to-mid Paragon tiers. Now, is that weak? Certainly not! But while the Implement Bard and the Bow Bard each have strong, meaningful encounter and daily powers, the Weapon Bard's powers are mostly average. (You don't have to take my word for it; take a look at the Bard Handbook in the Character Optimization board and you'll see almost all Melee Weapon powers are black, while a good number of Implement and Ranged Weapon powers are light blue or dark blue.) "Arcane Power" had absolutely nothing for the Melee Weapon Bard, other than a few powers - and "Arcane Power 2" seems to be far off, since the designers apparently are focused entirely on the Essentials line (which doesn't even have an Essential Bard yet!). So I wanted to bring the Melee Weapon powers more in line with the Implement/Ranged Weapon powers; this may be just me, but I think an entire build deserves to be more than merely "decent"! As for adding more damage dice to the powers, that was partly because of the way the Character Themes are designed - in the higher level versions of the powers, the only thing that changes is that they deal more damage dice. I tried to break that mold with some of the revised powers - you'll notice, for example, that Thunder Blade's level 29 version doesn't have improved damage, but an improved effect -, but I didn't want to stray too far from it. The other reason for adding more [W] to the powers is this: ever notice how Bards can dabble in almost all roles, besides their own (Leader)? Depending on their feat/power selection, they can be great secondary Controllers or Defenders, either directly, or by helping a proper Controller/Defender to do his job. The only exception to that is the Striker roler; Bard powers deal almost no damage at all, so they can't truly be secondary Strikers (or even tertiary, really). I felt that didn't really fit the Bard's "jack of all trades" schtick, so I thought - if there's one Bard build that would be appropriate for a secondary Striker, wouldn't it be the Melee Weapon Bard? (Let's be honest though: even with additional [W], there's no way the Bard could even come close to competing with a primary Striker, or even with most secondary Strikers - like Fighters, for example.) Changing a lvl 5 daily to add 2w damage doesn't a level 25 daily make. If you simply want to add damage, you might want to look to another build type. Well, the effects provided by those powers should stay useful throughout all tiers of play. For instance, granting combat advantage to allies will provide what's essentially a stackable +2 bonus to attack rolls (with additional effects depending on the allies' classes and feats), regardless of whether you're playing a Heroic, Paragon or Epic game; likewise, Word of Mystic Warding should still discourage an enemy to attack one of your allies at Epic level, and so on and so forth. Also, that is the model followed by the Character Themes from "Dark Sun", and I tried to stay as close as possible to it. You'll notice, though, that Word of Mystic Warding is one power to which I didn't add another [W] at Epic tier, but rather improved its effect. Do you think it would still not be enough to compete with, say, Fraught with Failure? Perhaps instead of adding another [W] at Paragon tier, the power's effect could be improved twice - once at Paragon, and another time at Epic? |
| #5Thorvald_GrimbjornNov 14, 2010 21:30:31 | Here are alternative proposals to some of the powers, based on the criticism so far: Inspiring Refrain (Bard Encounter Power 1) (alternative proposal): Change the power bonus to attack rolls to an untyped bonus to attack rolls. At level 11, the bonus to attack rolls increases to +2. Charger's Call (Bard Encounter Power 3/13/23) (alternative proposal 2): Change the "Virtue of Valor" line to: "In addition, each ally within 5 squares of you also gain a bonus to damage rolls while charging equal to 1 + your Constitution modifier." In the level 13 version, the power's damage increases to 3[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 23 version, the power's area of effect increases to 10 squares. Verse of Triumph (Bard Daily Power 1) (alternative proposal): Increase the power bonus to damage rolls and saving throws to +2. At level 21, the bonus to saving throws increases to +3. Word of Mystic Warding (Bard Daily Power 1/15/25) (alternative proposal): In the level 15 version, the power's psychic damage inflicted when the target moves closer to the Bard's ally increases to 3 + Charisma modifier, and in the level 25 version, the power's psychic damage inflicted when the target moves closer to the Bard's ally increases to 6 + Charisma modifier. Hymn of the Daring Rescue (Bard Daily Power 9/19/29) (alternative proposal): Add "Miss: Half damage." to the power. In the level 19 version, the power's damage increases to 4[W] + Charisma modifier, and in the level 29 version, the Bard can choose an ally within 10 squares of him. |
| #6Neutronium_DragonNov 15, 2010 3:27:05 | > Also, that is the model followed by the Character Themes from "Dark Sun", > and I tried to stay as close as possible to it. The model followed by character themes is not meant to be applied to class powers, which follow a different model of design and scaling. While it may be a better fit to your preferred style, using it as a basis for class powers pretty much ensures that they're not going to be seen as balanced in comparison to other class powers. |
| #7Thorvald_GrimbjornNov 15, 2010 5:44:58 | While it may be a better fit to your preferred style, using it as a basis for class powers pretty much ensures that they're not going to be seen as balanced in comparison to other class powers. Are you sure about that? I mean, the theme powers are meant to replace (if the player so chooses) the PC's regular class powers, so I assume they must be balanced against each other. Regardless, I've taken a slightly different approach in the alternative proposals: instead of simply adding [W], higher level versions of powers have improved effects. Do they seem better now? |