Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bennyg Oct 16, 2009 7:55:28	I have been working on a new campaign idea. The rundown is here at my wizards community blog. Any input would be GREATLY appreciated. Warning: link opens in same window, for whatever reason, the wizards editor won't allow me to set it to a new window.
#2 eagor Oct 17, 2009 10:21:36	I like it. I think the idea of having the PCs be the hunted could be extremely compelling.  No concrete advice is coming to mind, but it sounds like one thing you're going to want to make sure to do is to use fear. Not all the time, of course; no one wants a campaign where your time is divided between hiding for your life and changing your pants, but some fear is big. I don't know if there's a 4e equivalent, but the 3.5e book Heroes of Horror has a lot of good advice, rules and editions aside, so I'd recommend checking that out. I'll read it over again and come back if anything else comes to mind. But what I saw the first time around looked really good.
#3 tomcardin Oct 17, 2009 14:56:59	Hmmm...well as a witch-blood character I would not trust anyone, even another witch-blood. It is clear to me that the best way for them to catch me would be to lure me in with rumors of safe haven. I am sure they would even use those with witch-blood as their own tools to catch and kill other witch-blooded. Am I evil? Am I good? I know the world thinks me evil but what I truly am is how I am played. If I am good and I know I am good, I am going to look for ways to discover if I am singular, or if other witch-bloods can be good as well -unfortunately I will probably believe the propaganda and assume that I am the only "good" witch-blood. Again I can't trust anyone. I am a dead end character...who can I go to for training? Who can I trust to help me hone my abilities? If I could disguise myself as a normal person and move among the other civilized races safely that would be great. But, they all want me dead, I know they want me dead, I know there is nothing I can do to raise awareness that witch-bloods are good decent folks, the world is against me on this. Would I help a normal person in need? Probably if it was immediate, IE I came across someone who's life was threatened by a pack of wolves I would run to their aid...but I would not use my witch-blood powers to give myself away. I certainly would not help a normal person who was not in immediate danger, after all, THEY WANT ME DEAD. On the other hand if I am actually evil...hmmm. If I can masquerade as a normal person I would do so and prey upon them at my leisure. Carefully so as not to get caught, disposing of bodies so there is nothing remaining to even point towards a murderer. I certainly won't gather with other Witch-Bloods, that just makes me vulnerable if any of them should get caught and tortured then those who would hunt me will know of me. My abilities would still suffer because I would not trust anyone to train me, and those I could get training from I would destroy as soon as possible...none could live that would betray my existence. If I could master my abilities myself thats what I would work on, not for world domination, no I just want to insure my own survival. At some point I will take women so that I could propagate. Their existence would be a bitter, tortured one, for they would be imprisoned by me away from all possible rescue while they bore my children until I saw weather my witch-blood would breed true. Is that what you had in mind for your campaign? Based on what you have written so far this is what my conclusions would be as a PC.
#4 bennyg Oct 17, 2009 16:22:01	Thanks for the input guys. I plan on doing a one on one intro module based on the character's history. The primer, when totally completed will have character generation rules and some flavor text on each of the "civilized" lands. In that intro, the which-blood will be contacted by other witch-bloods looking to form a group for their mutual protection and advancement. I do want the world to have that dark feel but the eventual goal will be heroic in scope and, although I will allow dark heroes, no evil will be allowed.
#5 tomcardin Oct 18, 2009 14:30:10	How will the witch-bloods contacting the PC's assure them they can trust them with their lives? It is a perfectly reasonable tactic of the witch hunters to use witch-blooded folk to lure in and identify other witch-bloods. I am a witch hunter. My forces capture a witch-blood and his whole family. I offer him a deal after I kill his wife, "Do as I say or I start killing your children - if you can bring me the names or bodies of enough of your sickening kind I will let you and your children flee for the mountains but if I catch you again...well you better just hope I don't!" Sure some witch-bloods will just say "kill us all then!" but unless they are devoid of all rational humanish thought, some will comply...
#6 bennyg Oct 18, 2009 15:41:44	You need to remember a few things: 1) It is illegal to associate with or aid in any way, a witch blood. This is illegal by mandate of the United Council, a rare thing. The UC as a rule mostly lets the nations rule themselves. Only world effecting (or threatening) issues are ruled on. The punishment is death by torture. All witch-bloods are to be killed on sight. (This in and of itself caused an issue because people were killing others claiming they were witch bloods.) The UC does not mess around as THE ruling body they are super cautious of ferreting out even the appearance of improprity. 2) In the far distant history the very world was barely pulled from the clutches of destruction by demons. It was only the plans of the Venumberate that saved the world. The stories are taught to all the children of the world about the evil of demons and how they seek to take the world. The witch-bloods, as far as the world is concerned, are the demon's agents in this world. 3) In the history of the world a Hitler-like witch-blood went on a conquering spree that only by an assassination succeeded. So if it weren't enough that everyone knows the demons almost destroyed the world, now there is a very recent example of what demon-bloods can do and people to fear. 4) Lastly, the leader of the Witch Hunters, William Smithson, considered by many to be one of the world's smartest men, discovered a certain trait is some bloodhounds to actually be able to "smell" witch-bloods. It is a rare trait that he is currently trying to breed regularly. Currently there aren't too many, only numbering in the hundreds. Many Witch Hunter bands have one or two to aid them in their hunt. Thus not needing the decption of using other witch-bloods.
#7 tomcardin Oct 19, 2009 1:30:32	I think thats the wrong rationale to take.  Remember...the pc knows he's good. So that means he knows the witch hunters are in the wrong. I still don't think there is enough there for the PC to really believe that NO witch-blood would ever be used in such a way just because they are so utterly abhorred. And it still does not remove the threat of having a witch blood tortured (as you say they are tortured to death) to betray the PC's existence. Plus you have added the bloodhound concept which means there is going to be no masquerading as a normal civilized race...it also means that concentrations of witch bloods will most likely be found first. This makes the world even more malevalent towards the PC and hastens a possible descent towards paranoia and isolationism. I am not trying to break your concept of a world, I am trying to prompt you to come up with solutions to what I see as issues that would prevent the cohesion of a party and the fear and distrust that would prevent any rational being from performing selfless acts of heroism. Admittedly your players may not play on the level I do, where I try to imbue my character with real motivations and immerse myself in the DM's world to where I really feel part of it...not just whats on my character sheet and a desire for the next battle because I really want to try out my new at-will. I have come up with a couple way to make it work, even for a role playing jerk like me. You have to solve two issues...
#8 bennyg Oct 19, 2009 8:56:15	TomCardin: Let me be honest, at first when I read your post I was like, oh this guy is gonna be a pain to deal with. But I read the post, a little fustrated already, and went off to think about it. And you are right, if I am to make a world with a look and feel that is immersive I must think and feel in the game. I will think on what you have said and come back and answer. Maybe my past DMing attempts were partly failure because I could not relate to my player's in-character views. So Thanks... and I'll get back to you in a minute.
#9 bennyg Oct 19, 2009 15:32:36	@TomCardin I have reread your posts and thought on what you have come up with. The only answer to your posed issues, without a total re-write on what I have, is role-play. Someone who has determined that their character has to be paranoid and fearful would only be convincible through role-play. I will be running one on one intro modules with the players written based on their histories, which I require of all players. There are many character personalities, of which your 'everyone is out to get me' is one, which could be played here. For most characters there will likely be some 'character gained powers, character got hunted' scenario. But maybe the character was a ranger living in the wilderness and has no real fear of being discovered or something similar. For most characters, the offer of hope of something other than a life of being hunted and alone will be the enticement. If not, they will endure attack after attack or be on the run. The benefactor has information that will be unknown to the PCs (Which I can't repeat here since my potential players could read this.) and will allow for a more hopeful existence. As for PCs being distrustful of each other, I am OK with that. Some inter party conflict will add to the atmosphere. I hope that answers your questions, if not, please address what I have here.
#10 tomcardin Oct 19, 2009 16:20:12	Yes definitely your solutions are going to come thru role playing. One solution which would work for me would be a divine communication. My PC's would believe what their deity had to say. Short of that a mother or father figure telling them they must seek out so and so, for he can be trusted and he will know what the fates would have you do. However that will break down quickly if there is ever any betrayal from a "trustworthy" source. I am not thinking my character would start out paranoid at all...perhaps would start out very altruistically, sure in the rights of the witch-blooded to survive and live in peace one day side by side with their normal civilized brothers. But... The more things looked like a no win situation for the witch-blooded...the altruistic view begins to dim. If there was a betrayal from another witch-blooded, the distrust that would create would lead a breakdown of social connectivity bordering on paranoia. If a party member should do anything at all which would show me I couldn't trust them when the chips were down, I would quickly strike out on my own...even leave misdirections behind to cover my trail. If most of my encounters are against civilized races out to get me, my PC is going to start lapsing in alignment...I would definitely start taking the fight to them and trying to pick off leaders and rabblerousers who are instigating these attacks - preemptively. And how they died would not be an issue...regardless of their actual alignment I would hunt them like one would hunt down evil vermin and crush them beneath their heel. In a fight for survival where I am the hunted, what is right and what is wrong fall by the wayside, where all that matters is to survive. Again this is a situation which divine communication can resolve, but it also means that my character is going just be running from bolt hole to bolt hole wherever their god directs - free will is lost and the DM may as well be playing my character. One thing that could fix a lot of issues would unfortunately require a bit of a rewrite and that would be the introduction of a truely safe haven, a place where the forces of the witch hunters could never enter or if they did THEY would be the ones on enemy territory. Another nation or even a plane of existence like the faywild which was a homeland to my kind. But much more than just a hidden enclave that could be besieged from without or betrayed from within. My PC needn't start there nor even have direct access to it, it would just be enough to know it existed and it would be my goal to reach and cross over into this land where I would be safe, were the people around me would be sane and free from the desire to destroy that which they fear. From such a place I can see mounting foray's into the witch-hunters realm to help rescue and succor those with witch-blood.
#11 bennyg Oct 20, 2009 8:06:26	Divine Communication can't happen in this game. This world has no gods. There is religion but most of it is cult like in nature. Imagine our world where no religion had any history behind it. This world is on the border of the age of reason, moreso among those races that aren't tribal in nature. And because of the near destruction of the world at the hands of demons and the Purge that followed, no known historical records exist. All of the histories of the world that exist are written post-purge and describe the time of the demons and the purge in little to no detail. Any religions that have cropped up since that time have gained little to no momentum as there is no power behind it and, at the end of the day, the world was saved by mortals, not gods or their proxies but mortals. So though there may have been religions that got popular for a decade or two, none have stood the test of time. As for the safe haven, a similar concept is in the world, though most don't know about it.
#12 tomcardin Oct 20, 2009 11:53:16	I can't offer any constructive help at this point. I think I can see what would happen to my PC in this world and I can just assume that your players will enjoy the work you have put into this.