Carry rules. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Carry rules.

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
panosl
May 18, 2009 12:55:49 I'm about to start a new campaign that is based far more on a sandbox concept rather than the scripted narrative affairs that I usually write. This style of play to me seems far more fun however it does bring up some problems.

Namely at the moment I'm trying to think of suitable carry rules that make sense and are actually fun to use. The issue is that under the current carry rules players are able to carry huge amounts of items with little inconvenience to themselves.Like fifteen massive two handed greatswords for example.

I've always had the rule in place that when looting only the more exotic items can be looted and mundane stuff is worthless. This is so players don't get into the horrible habit of turning the game into being about micromanaging their ever growing inventory. This is something I want to avoid. However I also want the characters to be able to have a diverse range of items and if they really do want to strip some poor dead bandit naked and take everything he owns including his gold teeth then I don't like saying 'no'. I'm just not sure how to gel things together.

Basically what I had in mind was that you could carry two main sets of weapons and armour as well as as many minor items such as potions and such as you wanted and simply make these items fairly limited.

This seems as though something is missing however and so I was just wondering how people handle carrying and items in their games. My main fear as I've said is that I don't want the game to turn into dull micro management of items but I would still like them to have a range of things and know they have limits/sacrifices ect. Any ideas?
#2
doublefrost
May 18, 2009 13:25:59 How about some sort of new item bulk property? Account for it's volume and weight. Maybe those 15 swords won't fit in that backpack, but if you're set on it you might be able to carry some or all of them in combination of strapped to your back and held cradled in both arms in front of you.

Then you can have elements like carts, wagons, wheelbarrows if they really want to take huge piles of loot back with them. You could have a fixed bulk capacity on anything hand drawn, with a strength check based on how much weight is inside it. Full sized wagons on the other hand would be a lot looser with it, I'd think. Just throw however much junk inside it you think will fit. If there's an obscene level, you might tell them they need two wagons.

Limitation of anything they DO strap to their person beyond normal combat equipment might be appropriate to give penalties for carrying, including heavy backpacks. Penalties I'd consider for carrying too much would probably be speed, reflexes, AC if it's way too much, endurance and attack rolls. Dropping anything carried in hands as a free action, and anything like a backpack or one or two big swords strapped to them as a minor action would solve that in a hurry. If that was normal, it could be assumed players pick it all back up when they move on unless otherwise stated. Just be sure to make them actually drop the stuff and have some minor hassle if they carry too much to discourage it and keep it from the undesired items bonanza on their person.

Also, I'd think light throwing weapons should be excepted from the weapon set limit so long as there aren't too many. Maybe a character has three or four daggers on their person for throwing or desperation weapons, which wouldn't take a lot of space or weight to do even with a pair of broadswords and a two handed polearm they lug around.

For minor items, what about belt pouch and bandoleer space only for ready combat items? If it were a standard action to rummage through a backpack, either someone else's (If equipped and they're ok with it.) or yours on the ground to refill it'd still give options if you run out of ammo, potions or whatever when you have more in the pack.

To take care of excessive item bulk keeping them from looting as they go, it'd also be possible to loot what they want to take now, and declare how much if not everything there to put on a list of things they'll scour and systematically loot to their loot transport after the adventure is over in the area.
#3
mellored
May 18, 2009 13:57:27 I agree with the "bulk" idea.
#4
AbdulAlhazred
May 19, 2009 15:14:10 Well, it is one of those issues where you are on the horns of a dilemma.

Either you try to make encumbrance somewhat realistic, in which case it becomes a serious accounting chore, or you do like 4e did and essentially do away with it by letting everyone carry pretty much anything they want to within reason.

After 30+ years of DMing my observations are that a realistic system will fail. Players have no incentive to track encumbrance, so they won't. This leaves it on the DM to deal with, which is just one more thing the DM is burdened with (pun, yes). Pretty soon the DM will not have time to go through all the math on every player's load and they'll start eyeballing it. Soon after that the whole thing will erode into de-facto the way 4e works now.

So guess what? I highly advise just going with the 4e version of encumbrance. You can still say to a player "Ummm, 14 greatswords is really bulky and if you try to carry that I'm giving you a -1 check penalty on all physical skill checks" at which point they'll probably ditch the loot.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 panosl May 18, 2009 12:55:49	I'm about to start a new campaign that is based far more on a sandbox concept rather than the scripted narrative affairs that I usually write. This style of play to me seems far more fun however it does bring up some problems. Namely at the moment I'm trying to think of suitable carry rules that make sense and are actually fun to use. The issue is that under the current carry rules players are able to carry huge amounts of items with little inconvenience to themselves.Like fifteen massive two handed greatswords for example. I've always had the rule in place that when looting only the more exotic items can be looted and mundane stuff is worthless. This is so players don't get into the horrible habit of turning the game into being about micromanaging their ever growing inventory. This is something I want to avoid. However I also want the characters to be able to have a diverse range of items and if they really do want to strip some poor dead bandit naked and take everything he owns including his gold teeth then I don't like saying 'no'. I'm just not sure how to gel things together. Basically what I had in mind was that you could carry two main sets of weapons and armour as well as as many minor items such as potions and such as you wanted and simply make these items fairly limited. This seems as though something is missing however and so I was just wondering how people handle carrying and items in their games. My main fear as I've said is that I don't want the game to turn into dull micro management of items but I would still like them to have a range of things and know they have limits/sacrifices ect. Any ideas?
#2 doublefrost May 18, 2009 13:25:59	How about some sort of new item bulk property? Account for it's volume and weight. Maybe those 15 swords won't fit in that backpack, but if you're set on it you might be able to carry some or all of them in combination of strapped to your back and held cradled in both arms in front of you. Then you can have elements like carts, wagons, wheelbarrows if they really want to take huge piles of loot back with them. You could have a fixed bulk capacity on anything hand drawn, with a strength check based on how much weight is inside it. Full sized wagons on the other hand would be a lot looser with it, I'd think. Just throw however much junk inside it you think will fit. If there's an obscene level, you might tell them they need two wagons. Limitation of anything they DO strap to their person beyond normal combat equipment might be appropriate to give penalties for carrying, including heavy backpacks. Penalties I'd consider for carrying too much would probably be speed, reflexes, AC if it's way too much, endurance and attack rolls. Dropping anything carried in hands as a free action, and anything like a backpack or one or two big swords strapped to them as a minor action would solve that in a hurry. If that was normal, it could be assumed players pick it all back up when they move on unless otherwise stated. Just be sure to make them actually drop the stuff and have some minor hassle if they carry too much to discourage it and keep it from the undesired items bonanza on their person. Also, I'd think light throwing weapons should be excepted from the weapon set limit so long as there aren't too many. Maybe a character has three or four daggers on their person for throwing or desperation weapons, which wouldn't take a lot of space or weight to do even with a pair of broadswords and a two handed polearm they lug around. For minor items, what about belt pouch and bandoleer space only for ready combat items? If it were a standard action to rummage through a backpack, either someone else's (If equipped and they're ok with it.) or yours on the ground to refill it'd still give options if you run out of ammo, potions or whatever when you have more in the pack. To take care of excessive item bulk keeping them from looting as they go, it'd also be possible to loot what they want to take now, and declare how much if not everything there to put on a list of things they'll scour and systematically loot to their loot transport after the adventure is over in the area.
#3 mellored May 18, 2009 13:57:27	I agree with the "bulk" idea.
#4 AbdulAlhazred May 19, 2009 15:14:10	Well, it is one of those issues where you are on the horns of a dilemma. Either you try to make encumbrance somewhat realistic, in which case it becomes a serious accounting chore, or you do like 4e did and essentially do away with it by letting everyone carry pretty much anything they want to within reason. After 30+ years of DMing my observations are that a realistic system will fail. Players have no incentive to track encumbrance, so they won't. This leaves it on the DM to deal with, which is just one more thing the DM is burdened with (pun, yes). Pretty soon the DM will not have time to go through all the math on every player's load and they'll start eyeballing it. Soon after that the whole thing will erode into de-facto the way 4e works now. So guess what? I highly advise just going with the 4e version of encumbrance. You can still say to a player "Ummm, 14 greatswords is really bulky and if you try to carry that I'm giving you a -1 check penalty on all physical skill checks" at which point they'll probably ditch the loot.