Catchy Title - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Catchy Title

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
candin
Jun 16, 2008 16:21:32 I'm on summer break from school, and I have a lot of downtime. I remember some buddies saying they wouldn't mind giving D&D a try, and I ended up brainstorming some ideas in case they ever wanted to. This is my arch-villain question.

The game starts with the party as slaves. They were taken from their beds during the night, knocked out cold, and woke up in shackles. Which I think will be cool, because it gives them some opportunities in the beginning to test out their handy skills to make ready for the jailbreak. Plus, it'd be a dungeon crawl that's backwards, where they start at the end and go to the beginning. Which I think is horribly clever.

The party is being held by orcs goblins and other nefarious low level encounters, and they work in some underground mining facilities. The day before the break-out, the party will notice a dude; a human, even. In fact, he's just leaving the mine. Sandy blonde hair, average height, red cloak with gold trim, and a monkey on his shoulder. Yay, the arch-villain!

When the party busts out in heroic fashion, they'll have a few leads to go on, including the dude with the monkey. Maybe he'll have an eye-patch too. But that might make him pirate-themed, and he's not. Well, not really. But I'm digressing.

I played a sorcerer who was very much for the little guy, and I think he would translate well as a bad guy. He isn't a fan of the establishment, and has been working towards destroying any sort of rule of law that he can find, since he considers it an affront to personal liberties. His bad-guy machismo in the game is kind of what I was going for when I played him, 'till our campaign stopped.

In his quest to get rid of evil tyrants and oppressive dictators, this dude's aligned himself with some unscrupulous characters. Orcs, hobgoblins, outcasts, your typical evil chronies. Everybody involved wants to kill humans and destroy stuff, right? He just has a different goal in mind.

So he's raising an army with the intention of overthrowing the powers that be that he thinks are bad for the common man, and he's employing these nasty critters to help him out. The mines are being excavated by his chronies to materials to make weapons to furnish his army for war. That's how the players get intertwined.

I can't decide if the dude either doesn't condone slavery and is simply oblivious to what's going on, or if he's just turning a blind eye in his unrelenting drive to topple empires. When I played him the guy was Chaotic Good, but he might slip down to Chaotic Neutral because of his nefarious goings-on.

I'm a big fan of having non-traditional super evil bad guys. You know, the ones who want to take over the world for themselves, or destroy things because they hate everyone, or become undead zombie lords. So I thought this guy was perfect. He does what he does because he thinks it'll help the little guy who gets shafted by the system, but he gets so wrapped up that he loses focus on what really matters.

Plus, once the party begins to unravel the arch-villain's plan, they can have some cool options. Maybe they agree that empires are bad things and help him destroy nations. Or maybe they side with the rule of law and put a stop to his terrorism. Or maybe they use the conflict to rise to power themselves. I think it has a lot of flexibility for us to do anything with.

So what do you guys think? Voice of the people who's lost his way? Sound like a cool BBEG? Or should I find a new acronym? Or just scrap him for the traditional Evil aligned nemesis?
#2
thinkhard
Jun 16, 2008 18:25:44 I find someone obsessed with liberty hard to believe as a character condoning slavery. And if he doesn't condone slaver, that doesn't really make him the nemesis of the players since he wasn't personally responsible for their plight. Beyond wanting to stop his plans, they should feel personally slighted by him in order for him to function as a true BBEG.

Perhaps he was a slave himself in the worst of worst places, and broke free. He wishes to destroy the society that created his hatred, and enslave it in return. Perhaps in his twisted mind, only those who can free themselves deserve their own freedom.

This could cause an interesting relationship with the players. The players free themselves, proving their worth as people in his eyes. Yet, they stand against his desires! He'll have complex issues of fighting them yet trying to be respectful of them because they remind him of himself.
#3
the_ubbergeek
Jun 16, 2008 18:58:44 I will note that a somewhat similar moral dissonance actually existed in our world... the Fathers of USA, somes had slaves...

Liberty and freedom... for the real and superior men.

maybe the culture is prejudicied in the 'men' sense - a race or group or ethny is inferior and 'deserves' slavery. They are not men.
#4
g-pa
Jun 17, 2008 12:29:49 As to how to make the BBEG into a big bad conflicted guy, you can have him starting this war as revenge for something really bad that happened to him, something that the PCs would probably want to revenge if it happened to them, except hundreds or thousands of innocents are going to die if this guy gets his way.

Have part of what the BBCG's henchmen do be legitimately philanthropic. Any "evil" organization does this to some extent, either because they actually do care about protecting and helping some group, or they just want to make themselves look like they do.

Have his followers shout slogans so it looks like a movement. Have someone the PCs care about, or at least some noncombatants, talking about how the BBCG "has some good ideas."

You might see the party trying to stop some of the BBCG's plans but not others, fighting some of his henchmen but not others, or trying to reform him. Ultimately though, I recommend having the BBCG cross some point of no return where the PCs decide, tragically perhaps, that he needs to be taken out.
#5
candin
Jun 17, 2008 12:44:11 Thanks, you guys have some pretty cool ideas. I think having the common folk tout how cool this dude is because he helps 'em out, while the players consistently see the less-than-social part of his business carried out (slavery, conscription, or murdering traders on the roads, in their homes) could be cause for some interesting stories.

I mean, the commoners only see the product, that their landlord or local governor taxed them more than they could reasonably bear, and now he's gone. And the dudes promising even better things, why should it matter that he gets it done in rather grotesque manners?

As I think more about him, I get the feeling he's kind of like Robin Hood. Only he's lost sight of his perspective and lost part of his humanity.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 candin Jun 16, 2008 16:21:32	I'm on summer break from school, and I have a lot of downtime. I remember some buddies saying they wouldn't mind giving D&D a try, and I ended up brainstorming some ideas in case they ever wanted to. This is my arch-villain question. The game starts with the party as slaves. They were taken from their beds during the night, knocked out cold, and woke up in shackles. Which I think will be cool, because it gives them some opportunities in the beginning to test out their handy skills to make ready for the jailbreak. Plus, it'd be a dungeon crawl that's backwards, where they start at the end and go to the beginning. Which I think is horribly clever. The party is being held by orcs goblins and other nefarious low level encounters, and they work in some underground mining facilities. The day before the break-out, the party will notice a dude; a human, even. In fact, he's just leaving the mine. Sandy blonde hair, average height, red cloak with gold trim, and a monkey on his shoulder. Yay, the arch-villain! When the party busts out in heroic fashion, they'll have a few leads to go on, including the dude with the monkey. Maybe he'll have an eye-patch too. But that might make him pirate-themed, and he's not. Well, not really. But I'm digressing. I played a sorcerer who was very much for the little guy, and I think he would translate well as a bad guy. He isn't a fan of the establishment, and has been working towards destroying any sort of rule of law that he can find, since he considers it an affront to personal liberties. His bad-guy machismo in the game is kind of what I was going for when I played him, 'till our campaign stopped. In his quest to get rid of evil tyrants and oppressive dictators, this dude's aligned himself with some unscrupulous characters. Orcs, hobgoblins, outcasts, your typical evil chronies. Everybody involved wants to kill humans and destroy stuff, right? He just has a different goal in mind. So he's raising an army with the intention of overthrowing the powers that be that he thinks are bad for the common man, and he's employing these nasty critters to help him out. The mines are being excavated by his chronies to materials to make weapons to furnish his army for war. That's how the players get intertwined. I can't decide if the dude either doesn't condone slavery and is simply oblivious to what's going on, or if he's just turning a blind eye in his unrelenting drive to topple empires. When I played him the guy was Chaotic Good, but he might slip down to Chaotic Neutral because of his nefarious goings-on. I'm a big fan of having non-traditional super evil bad guys. You know, the ones who want to take over the world for themselves, or destroy things because they hate everyone, or become undead zombie lords. So I thought this guy was perfect. He does what he does because he thinks it'll help the little guy who gets shafted by the system, but he gets so wrapped up that he loses focus on what really matters. Plus, once the party begins to unravel the arch-villain's plan, they can have some cool options. Maybe they agree that empires are bad things and help him destroy nations. Or maybe they side with the rule of law and put a stop to his terrorism. Or maybe they use the conflict to rise to power themselves. I think it has a lot of flexibility for us to do anything with. So what do you guys think? Voice of the people who's lost his way? Sound like a cool BBEG? Or should I find a new acronym? Or just scrap him for the traditional Evil aligned nemesis?
#2 thinkhard Jun 16, 2008 18:25:44	I find someone obsessed with liberty hard to believe as a character condoning slavery. And if he doesn't condone slaver, that doesn't really make him the nemesis of the players since he wasn't personally responsible for their plight. Beyond wanting to stop his plans, they should feel personally slighted by him in order for him to function as a true BBEG. Perhaps he was a slave himself in the worst of worst places, and broke free. He wishes to destroy the society that created his hatred, and enslave it in return. Perhaps in his twisted mind, only those who can free themselves deserve their own freedom. This could cause an interesting relationship with the players. The players free themselves, proving their worth as people in his eyes. Yet, they stand against his desires! He'll have complex issues of fighting them yet trying to be respectful of them because they remind him of himself.
#3 the_ubbergeek Jun 16, 2008 18:58:44	I will note that a somewhat similar moral dissonance actually existed in our world... the Fathers of USA, somes had slaves... Liberty and freedom... for the real and superior men. maybe the culture is prejudicied in the 'men' sense - a race or group or ethny is inferior and 'deserves' slavery. They are not men.
#4 g-pa Jun 17, 2008 12:29:49	As to how to make the BBEG into a big bad conflicted guy, you can have him starting this war as revenge for something really bad that happened to him, something that the PCs would probably want to revenge if it happened to them, except hundreds or thousands of innocents are going to die if this guy gets his way. Have part of what the BBCG's henchmen do be legitimately philanthropic. Any "evil" organization does this to some extent, either because they actually do care about protecting and helping some group, or they just want to make themselves look like they do. Have his followers shout slogans so it looks like a movement. Have someone the PCs care about, or at least some noncombatants, talking about how the BBCG "has some good ideas." You might see the party trying to stop some of the BBCG's plans but not others, fighting some of his henchmen but not others, or trying to reform him. Ultimately though, I recommend having the BBCG cross some point of no return where the PCs decide, tragically perhaps, that he needs to be taken out.
#5 candin Jun 17, 2008 12:44:11	Thanks, you guys have some pretty cool ideas. I think having the common folk tout how cool this dude is because he helps 'em out, while the players consistently see the less-than-social part of his business carried out (slavery, conscription, or murdering traders on the roads, in their homes) could be cause for some interesting stories. I mean, the commoners only see the product, that their landlord or local governor taxed them more than they could reasonably bear, and now he's gone. And the dudes promising even better things, why should it matter that he gets it done in rather grotesque manners? As I think more about him, I get the feeling he's kind of like Robin Hood. Only he's lost sight of his perspective and lost part of his humanity.