People rarely, if ever, run a race that doesn't give a bonus to the prime stats of class used. The standard Hafling Rogue, Eldarin Wizard, Goliath Barbarian, Dragonborn Paladin...mix. Not one time did we have a player play a Halfing Fighter, or a Half-Orc Paladin.
So, after some thought, Ive decided to allow PCs in my game move one of the stat bonus' to another stat of thier choice, as long as it didn't boost that stat above 20.
The only downside I can see is now races aren't about what bonus' you get. But more about the racial powers.
Is there any particular racial power that is more powerful/useful than another? I didn't see any that were particularly overpowering, but I could be wrong as I haven't seen some of them in action, specifically most out of the PHB2, and Drow and Gensai from Forgotten Realms.
Also, what exactly is the problem with players that play a stereotype?
If that's what they want to play, let them.
You didn't really think this through, did you?
Many people will only use a race if it has a bonus to class primary ability scores, but it isn't required. You can get by without it. I personally feel it doesn't really need a change. But if you do decide to change it, you'll need to come up with something that doesn't make the Human stat bonus useless.
Has anybody at your table actually tried it? If not, then I would encourage them to before feeling like this is necessary.
(I usually like my racial ability score bonuses to at least tag the secondary score for my class, though.)
That said, though, this houserule isn't gonna break the game or anything; it'll simply rearrange what the 'optimal' choices are. Which is perhaps your intent; you just want to encourage some different choices. At worst it'll raise the PCs' overall power by a slight amount--if you notice them troucning your encounters, you can just bump up the encounter difficulty slightly to match.
Unless you want to discourage humans, I'd probably give humans an extra boost too, maybe let them have +2 to any two instead of any one.
I'd probably give humans an extra boost too, maybe let them have +2 to any two instead of any one.
That would make Human overpowered, +2 to ywo abilities of your choice, 1 extra feat, At-will, Trained skill... All that is left to separate a from race from another is the racial feats.
That would make Human overpowered...
Yeah, but this house rule is already making every other race overpowered, so unless the intent is that Humans be made completely obsolete, Humans do need to get something.
If you do decide to implement this house rule, then what I would do would be to give Humans +2 to any two different ability scores, as Chimerasame suggested above, but then maybe alter the Human Defense Bonuses feature to only grant you a bonus to a single defense of your choice.
To eliminate that, you may swap one of the racial mods for anything else. I don't think this detracts any from the game (because they were gonna get those bonuses anyways, from a different race) and it allows for more varied choices (this is especially important because I run an Eberron campaign, where a lot of monsterous races are viable choices).
To bring Humans up to snuff, tho, they -do- need to be boosted. Instead of giving +2(any), I simply gave them +2(any) and an additional +1(any). So they get to pick any two stats, but the second only pops up by 1.
So far, nobody has had any problem with this - in fact my players have said they rather enjoy the flexibility in races.
I was allowing non-humans to swap one of thier racial bonuses for another stat as long as it wouldn't raise that stat above 20, as stated by blacksheepcannibal.
I was not giving non-humans their standard +2 bonus's to two stats, and adding a third +2.
It allows for flexibility in races, again as blacksheepcannibal stated. Also Im doing it for the same reasons blacksheepcannibal is doing it. My players are less concerned about flavor, and more concerned about min-maxing so my players are not interested in playing off racial classes.
My concern by doing this is that races become less about what stat bonuses characters are getting for each race, and more about what racial abilities and powers there are...
My original was question is "Is there a Racial Power that is some how more powerful than others?"
As far as racial powers? Some are better than others, but encounter teleport is always good, second wind as a minor is amazing, the list goes on. The point is that many times the actual racial powers make up for the lack of stats.
My concern by doing this is that races become less about what stat bonuses characters are getting for each race, and more about what racial abilities and powers there are...
My original was question is "Is there a Racial Power that is some how more powerful than others?"
It's hard to answer without looking at the larger picture of what you're doing. Any race can take any class right now, so it's not like your houserule suddenly allows Tiefling Fighters where there were none before. (I pick them because they're my personal favorite class/race combo with entirely mismatched stats.
)Infernal Wrath, with the Lingering Wrath feat, is an answer to your question. Especially when you consider that Tieflings can also get Hellfire Blood and a Flaming Weapon to give all their attacks +1 to attack and damage. This is a bit of an opportunity cost, admittedly, since it takes up your magic weapon enchantment and prevents you from getting, say, Vicious/Cunning/Subtle/Radiant/Frost or whatever else you might want--and also Flaming is a level 5/10/15 etc enchantment, so with only one higher level you'd have that +1 atk/dmg anyway simply from it being a point higher enchantment.
That's a bit of a tangent. My point is, your houserule doesn't open up this combo--it already existed. It just stacks an additional +1 to hit and damage when the tiefling gives up 2 int for 2 str. It's strong, but I don't think it would make Tiefling Fighters gamebreakingly overpowered. (They'd still be a bit MAD since they'd have to pump charisma to make full use of Infernal Wrath, which isn't a fighter secondary stat.)
I can't think of any case where it would render a particular race gamebreakingly overpowered.
In a more direct answer to your question, particularly powerful racial powers (in my opinion):
For any defender (but particularly wardens), Dwarves' ability to use Second Wind as a minor action
Eladrins' Fey Step (particularly with the feat Fey Charge)
Elves' Elven Accuracy, particularly when combined with Elven Arcane Precision. Elves also get Wild Step, which is one of the best non-encounter-use racials depending on how often your DM uses difficult terrain.
Half-Elves' Dilettante, at least once you get Versatile Master. Also this depends on the character concept; it's more useful for some than others. It will continue to get more useful as more classes and more at-wills are published.
Devas' Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes, particularly with their feat support.
In MM: Kobolds' Shifty and Bugbears' Oversized; although I think fairly few DMs who put as much thought into racial balance as you do will allow those races (at least without nerfing them.) I suspect that if WotC ever rewrites them, they'll fix those, as they did with the Minotaur.
To bring Humans up to snuff, tho, they -do- need to be boosted. Instead of giving +2(any), I simply gave them +2(any) and an additional +1(any). So they get to pick any two stats, but the second only pops up by 1.
I strongly advise against this. Odd ability score bonuses just don't work well, because they don't accomplish what you want them to accomplish. The ability score modifier system runs on even numbers, so granting a +1 bonus to an ability score is either equivalent to granting a +0 bonus or a +2 bonus, depending on how the character's starting ability scores are set, and any canny player can easily manipulate it towards the latter.
Allow me to clarify...
I was allowing non-humans to swap one of thier racial bonuses for another stat as long as it wouldn't raise that stat above 20, as stated by blacksheepcannibal.
I was not giving non-humans their standard +2 bonus's to two stats, and adding a third +2.
I'm pretty sure we all understood that. At least, I haven't seen a response in this thread that leads me to believe its author was confused... Are you maybe misunderstanding the problem of how this significantly depreciates the Human? Is that why you think we were mistaken?
My original was question is "Is there a Racial Power that is some how more powerful than others?"
Yes, of course. Though it's not a big enough deal for any of them that it would cause any problems. Then again, I don't think that the current ability score system causes any problems either...
Allow me to clarify...
...
My concern by doing this is that races become less about what stat bonuses characters are getting for each race, and more about what racial abilities and powers there are...
My original was question is "Is there a Racial Power that is some how more powerful than others?"
I think Memory of a Thousand Lifetimes for the deva, and the dwarf's ability to use second wind with a minor action to be among the strongest. I don't have experience with genasi, but Windwalker and Acid Surge look like potent abilities.
For the overall traits of races, I'd say that dragonborn, dwarves, elves, and devas are the most potent, and they'd become even moreso with a flexible ability score bonus. Dragonborn especially love the chance to switch one to +2 Con!
I'm going to give an honourable mention to half-orcs. Their worst sin is not having ability scores that match up with very many classes. With flexible bonuses, they might steal some of the thunder from shifters and their spare design.
Also noteworthy, some races like eladrins and goliaths get a defense bonus to compensate them for having ability score bonuses that modify the same defense. Does your eladrin keep it if he loans his intelligence bonus to wisdom? Does your dwarf gain a +1 bonus to fortitude if he swaps his constitution bonus into charisma?
After running a few campaigns, and been in a few campaigns, I have noticed a glaring issue with the races and classes.
People rarely, if ever, run a race that doesn't give a bonus to the prime stats of class used. The standard Hafling Rogue, Eldarin Wizard, Goliath Barbarian, Dragonborn Paladin...mix. Not one time did we have a player play a Halfing Fighter, or a Half-Orc Paladin.
other posters have said everything i ever could except that sometimes picking the suboptimal choice doesn't ruin the fun at all.
i play a Dborn shaman MC druid and i love it. he's completely suboptimal for the class, but plenty of fun to play.
so, most are going for iconic/stereotypical options or are going to the optimal choice. maybe there is nothing you could do to change that, but i think that offering shifting stat bonuses at least offers an incentive to choose an off-stereotype race for a class. another incentive could be increasing RP and creating skill challenges that strain a team without everyone moderately trained at most skills needed.
that goliath barb might be a fantastic cliber, but the eladrin wizard might be barely able to lift his own body weight. too bad if the entire team needs to climb. one PC can't carry the entire team through that.
that halfling rogue might be gifted with a silver tongue, but if the team gets interviewed separately, or tortured for information even, his team mates might easily give up vital info.
if you just want to see the race choices shift without shifting the effectiveness of such a choice, then i think you've created a good incentive to that with the shifting stat bonus. but it still might not do anything to solve the actual reason that race was chosen. and it might not change anythign about the RP in the campaign.
My original was question is "Is there a Racial Power that is some how more powerful than others?"
My players think that teleporting is the bee's knees, except for the one who always plays draconians. I think second winding as a minor action is pretty freakin' awesome, and turning invisible after a monster misses you is pretty useful too (gnome).
Clearly there's no racial power that's objectively and mathematically superior to any others. (At least, I don't think WotC has yet slipped up in this regard.) If you're not sure which powers are more appealing, ask your players. Or just wait and see which races they choose. If you get a party full of eladrin and dwarves, chances are those powers are a bit more useful than other powers.
My original was question is "Is there a Racial Power that is some how more powerful than others?"
There are certainly racial feat that are more powerfull then others. Their usually for the underpowered race/class combos as well.
You won't be getting rid of stereotypes, you'll just be swapping them around. I'd rather have a player go with a Halfling Rogue because it's thematically approipriate AND mechanically sound rather than a player going with a Gnome Paladin simply because its mechanically more powerful.
Likewise, a dwarf with Str/Con, taking advantage of all of the dwarf fighter feats, would make a vicious battlerager.
They still get their bonus at-will, which is their version of having a racial power.
This would I think balance out quite neatly, as they don't get all that many uber-feats. Mostly it make them more solid choices for classes that need their secondary stat for AC and such, and dual mainstat class builds/hybrids.
The only "overpowered" thing left would be the bonus skill, which probably won't break anything, and the +1 to all NADs(and if you actually worry about that, just give them +1 to the NADs they didn't pick a stat for!)