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| #1yellowdingoJan 31, 2010 21:49:38 | DETERMINGING SUBSIDENCE Subsidence is defined by the cross-sectional width of a cave divided by its height below surface. Columns are rarely introduced after the effect. Standard Practice requires a column to be cut from the existing rock strata and left behind undisturbed by mining and excavation.
When Subsidence exceeds 10% it begins to show at the surface. To determine the Surface Area Affected by Subsidence, you must take a 35 degree angle from the bottom of the workings edge. This means that even Rock that doesn’t overlap a collapsed/failing Cave will be showing failure. The Actual depth of collapse at surface is 80% of actual cave height into which the rock may collapse. Cave-edge collapse radius = SIN 35 degrees x depth of cave bottom
SURFACE SIGNS OF SUBSIDENCE Signs of Failure: The failure of a cave is inevitable. The signs of failure begin at 10% subsidence where this initial stress is visible at the surface as cracking. This progresses toward 100% as Depression/subsidence bowls, Sink holes, Fissures, Chimneys, Block Collapse and Terracing occur. At 60% failure Cracks allow for transfer of water downward. The effects of failure extend beyond the cave area projected upward at surface (R=Sin 35 degrees x h). Failure appears at the surface as a collapse distance of 0.8 x m (where surface cover h> cave height m). 10%<------------------------>100% Cracks* - Sagging – Depression Bowl Cracks* – Fissures – Chimneys Cracks* - Block separation – Terracing Cracks* - Sagging - Sinkholes *Cracks are not always visible at the surface due to topsoil NATURAL SUBSIDENCE OVER TIME AND MAGICAL TUNNELLING As a mine is increased through mining it becomes increasingly unstable due to the natural failure over time. The rate of failure over time is determined by a curve associated with the rate at which mining occurred. A tunnel cut slowly by Dwarves might progress toward a natural failure over years or even centuries. Whereas the use of Disintegrate to dig your way through is considered an instantaneous advance which means the natural progression toward failure is instantaneous. The use of Disintegrate to tunnel instantly pushes the rock structure to 100%. Our 50’ cross-section cave might progress to 100% subsidence over eight years but the instant someone uses a Disintegrate spell to tunnel through a wall, the new section may collapse as a block or separate from the old cave as a stress boundary fissure or chimney. APPLYING CAVE SUBSIDENCE TO PITS It means that any unreinforced Pit wall will fail out to 35 degrees from bottom of any pit with 11′ of width per 10′ of depth burying anyone who dares enough to dig below 5′ depth x physical height. |
| #2yellowdingoJan 31, 2010 22:21:18 | Subsidence and H1 Keep on the Shadowfell If we apply these rules to an adventure like H1 Keep on the Shadowfell we find that the Entry stairs descending 20' from surface represents about 10' of cover (h=10') which puts a 10' wide corridor below 10' of cover equates to w/h=1.0 (71% Subsidence) This means the cracks in the roof are sufficient to transfer rainwater which means the floor is wet. Any rooms of 20' wide or greater on this 'first level' will have fallen in (20/10=2). Lower floors (those down another 20' of staircase - without being level 2 of Shadow Keep) will have various levels of subsidence. WIth exception the Primary room with the columns supporting the roof. as stated, Columns are desugned to reduce the subsidence of the roof to below 10%. However, despite this knowledge - the map designer doesnt know the rules. column separation (goaf distance)=0.6 x 10' =6'. The Columns are required to be in greater population in this room. They need to be at least 1.2' in diameter and as close as 6'. So even this room is above 10% (the distances between column tell us it is at above 85% between the columns (12/10=1.2). |
| #3heathan_v20Jan 31, 2010 22:46:01 | ok so are game designers aren't structural engineers, we already know this...I like your realism though, the idea of the stairs being wet and stuff like that makes the game come to life more imo. But you have to remember bring it to much to life and well you kill the game, after all its a fantasy. |
| #4yellowdingoJan 31, 2010 23:39:43 | Perhaps, but even the slightest effort other than 'God holds up the ceiling of our rules violating cavern' would have given us a different dungeon. The Crypts and level 2 are cut off from the surface by a collapsed room. The only way to get access to the Pit and the Cleric of Orcus is to dig through 30' of rock into the crypts...and only if you know where the crypts are. If they dont think to dig through thirty feet of rock into the crypts and level 2 (or clear out the rubble of the collapse)- they will only find Kobolds hold up in an uncollapsed section of the Dungeon level 1. No Cult of Orcus here - Drinks back at Winterhaven...Meanwhile Karleah completes the ritual deep beneath the surface. A month from now Karleah will be building a Monastary in the Ruins. |