Characters and 'pets' - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Characters and 'pets'

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Phantymwolf
Jan 16, 2011 3:44:18
I apologize ahead of time if this is in the wrong forums, or if something like this has been discussed already, but this forum seemed to be the best place to get an answer.

I am in the process of finishing up a homebrew setting and writing a campaign arc for it. I have several setting specific rules to help give it some of the flavor I have envisioned for it. I am also in the process of writing up some general house rules for my group in general. As I am doing this it occurs to me one of the things I want to house rule the most - 'pet' classes, the Summoner Wizard and the Beastmaster Ranger.

The fact that a character takes a back seat so that the creature being controlled can have actions doesn't set well with me. In my view you may as well just play that creature, and that's not the point of these classes, at least to me it isn't. The point to me is the ability to have the companion (or summoned creature) as a bonus to playing that class, not have the class feature supercede the character entirely. In the case of the Summoner, they are are already giving up a daily power to have the creature in question, while Beastmasters have it worse, since they have to dedicate just about every power selection towards their companion.

My group has had both classes played at the table and the players agree that something should be done, but none of them have a lot of experience tweaking rule systems, or a lot of experience with 4e as a whole. As these classes stand, they will never get played in one of our games because we just don't like how they are currently built.

So I am looking for ways to houserule these classes to give them the ability to have the creature in play but also be able to still do stuff themselves. The immediate solution to me is to just allow the character to control his companion as a minor action for movement and a move action to allow it to make a standard action. This frees up the standard action for the character to use as he sees fit.

Does this sound viable? Any other ideas or suggestions that would seem fair? And please no 'Fair is keeping them as is', I know they are balanced a specific way, but I believe they can be balanced differently to allow the character to shine alongside the creature rather than being there only as a catalyst for the creature to be there.
#2
rampant
Jan 16, 2011 4:28:23 I'd have to check the summons, but you do realize that the beast master pet can already take its own move action when the PC does. You move it moves, and it can even be in different directions.

As for the attacks and such, yeah these classes were designed to maintain the action economy that is so important in 4e. You have to be extra special careful when you screw with that.

Now with the summoners I kinda get their beef, they expended a daily power and instead of some horrible nightmare beast that fights for them and leaves them free to unload fireballs they get a horrible nightmare beast that eats their actions, and does less damage per turn than they could by unloading a few nasty encounter powers.

The Beastmasters again have it better since they have powers and feats designed to get both of them involved every turn. If you don't wanna choose all your powers to maximize your beast and player synergy then you don't have to anymore than a two-blade needs to only take two-weapon powers, or an archer needs only take bow powers, however as a with any ranger specialty you tend to lose out on your particular schtick when you step outside your specialty.

However I think your group fails to appreciate the passive benefits of an extra body on the board. That is a space your opponent cannot occupy, a source of attacks of opportunities, an ally to flank with, a shield to hide behind, and an extra pair of eyes.

#3
slobo777a
Jan 16, 2011 4:58:34 It's important to not leave other PCs behind by buffing only the classes that some of the players love.

One rough-and-ready suggestion:

"Restricted Action Points". Granted to ALL PCs. Refeshes to 1 "RAP" on a short rest. You may also cash in one AP = 2 "RAP" during a short rest, so that you can start an encounter with a up to 3 of them.

A RAP can be used to grant an additional Standard Action, same as a normal AP. However, if you spend a RAP, you may only use it for: A Basic Attack, A Command to a companion, paying a Sustain cost. No class feature, power, race or feat benefits that apply to AP also apply to RAP. Only one RAP or AP can be played during your turn. You may however play multiple RAP in the same encounter (unlike AP).

This does shift balance of power towards the PCs on every encounter, and might reduce benefits of having a Warlord in the party. A few classes that get good basic attacks (e.g. Druid) do very nicely out of it. It probably plays badly with the new Essentials builds. However, in the grand scheme of things, it shifts everyone up a little in power and lets the pets act a little more in concert with their owners.

You may need to reduce damage or effects from pets so that their impact is roughly the same as other characters' basic attack powers.

Although this seems quite radical, your alternative choices are going to involve much more detailed re-engineering of the rules to maintain balance.

#4
stargazer_dragon
Jan 16, 2011 22:37:03 I had this problem also, one possible solution to maintain balence would be to revamp the powers, so that the beast powers grant the char and the beast a attack, then balence the damage of these attacks with other powers such as twin strike. So there is the feal of the pet and player both acting but the damage wise is no difrent then if a player had fired 2 arrows via twin strike or some other similar power. Since there is a huge slew of duel weapon powers acrost the classes that allow 2 attacks barrow heavily upon them to allow the player to have a multitude of attacks that let the beast and player hit. as for summons I honestly think they should be sustain minor and should get to use a standard along with the pc after all there are a huge multitude of dailies that have sustaining effects of = or greater power then the summon which can be killed even if the player does sustain it. balence wise daily power summonds should be balenced with taking a standard action with sustain minor as a rider to keap the summons alive.

Past house ruling there is a multitude of feats that if taken could make the beast seam much more usefull though the exact names of them fail me bena whiel since we messed with them.

Side note the shaman summon even as written has proven extreamly useful in combat specialy with a few feats to improve it's function
#5
eelkat
Jan 18, 2011 0:49:43 Not sure how this would work in 4e, seeing how I was using 3e rules to do it in a 2e setting, but I think with some tweaking you could convert it over to 4e.

I sort of created a system by which PCs (of ANY class) could add on "extras". Extras being lesser characters controlled by the player's PC, including minions, bodyguards, familiars (pets with powers), cultist worshippers, personal slaves, servants, devoted followers, ect.

This was inspired by the fact that I was designing a campaign in which religion played a big part. Religion on the scale of "I'm a megalomanic and and going to save the world, follow me and be saved. Don't follow me and I'll kill you." So I needed to create a Cult Leader (Epic) Build for a Cleric PC, so that he could work his way up from sweet little cleric to insane overlord cult leader gone mad. This story line required that he gather up (brainwashed) followers. At first I was going to use this character as a villain and have him be a Mind Flyer. But than the more I thought about it, the more I started thinking - "Hey, I could create a whole series of Leadership Classes, that PCs could use." And so I did.

On page 45 of 3e DMG is a section on Leadership. I don't recall seeing this table (or one like it) in any other edition of the DMG. I can't remember seeing it in 2e or 4e and I don't have a copy of 3.5e, so you'll have to get/have a copy of the 3eDMG so you can see/use the Leadership Table on page 45.

In the PH on page 83, is listed Leadership Feat, followed by a notation that no PH information is included because it's an optional feat that required the DM's permission to use in game.

I allow my players to add Leadership Feats. And in order for these "Extras" I created, your PCs HAVE to add the Leadership Feat, otherwise this won't work.

Now, what the Leadership Feat OFFICIALLY does, is it allows your fighter characters to become leaders (Captains, General, etc) and add soldiers for them to lead, so that they can build up their own army. It allows none fighter type PCs to add a cohort (magical beast).

Starting with Level 6, the PC can add up to 5 Level 1 followers. The table explains how to determin how many followers the PC gains (or loses) after each level. The chart goes up to a Level 25 PC having 135 followers (extra PCs under his control).

That's the official rules. Here's how my homebrew rules change it:

Instead of just using the Leadership as feats for a class, I made it a Paragon Path option for ANY class. Here are the ones I have at the moment (this is sort of a pet project of mine so I keep adding to it):

LEADERSHIP PATH NAME (Class Prerequisite) --- type of followers

Holy One (Cleric, Paladin, Shaman, Priest, Monk, Druid) - Worshipers, Faithful Ones
Savior/The Chosen One (any) - Worshipers, Faithful Ones
Cultist (Warlock, Cleric, Paladin, Rouge) - Worshipers, Faithful Ones
Lord of the Manor (Aristocrat) - Servants
Admiral (Swashbucklers, Pirate, Rouge, Fighter, Barbarian) - Cohorts, Soldiers
Beastmaster (Shaman, Druid, Wizard, Mage) - Beasts, Familiars, Pets, Animal Friends
Royal Magician (any magic user) - Apprentice
Court Jester (Bard, Rouge, Jester) - Clowns, Cohorts
Ringmaster (any) - Troupe
General (Rouge, Fighter, Barbarian, Warlord, BattleMage) - Cohorts, Soldiers
Slave Master (Warlock, Rouge, Aristocrat, Pirate, Barbarian) - Slaves
Dark Lord (any) - Minions

Unlike the official rules, the PC can't always just go an add followers. For example Slaves must be bought at Slave Markets and different races have different prices, while Servants must be hired (and paid monthly wages). There are bonuses such as Worshipers pay monthly tithes to the PC and Minions collect tributes and taxes for the PC. Apprentices have to pay a monthly tuition to the PC. And there are penalties such as Slaves can run away, with some races better at escaping than others. I had a lot of time to get all complicated and detailed with all of this and have pages of notes.

Once I got going on this, I started creating a campaign set in an Illithid Community, where all the PCs are Mind Flayers, the campaign being played from their point of view, so I went all detailed crazy creating a Slave Market. I've got like 5 pages just detailing dice rolls for buying and selling various types of slaves! Oh well.

I spent most of my time focusing on expanding the Cultist and Slave Master Paths, because those are the two I needed for my campaign, so ones like my version of the Beastmaster Path didn't get fleshed out yet. I can easily see my Beastmaster Path expanding to Noah's Ark proportions though, with a PC that ultimately could call up armies of animals to his aid.

When it comes to actual battles and stuff, I let the player control 3 of their characters. They can choose the PC and 2 followers, or the PC stands back while 3 of his followers do all the work. (Good for Mind Flayer PCs who would rather hide behind their slaves than fight). But this variation allows them 3 spells, attacks, throws, whatever. In other words EACH player gets to control 3 different PCs using my strange version of Leadership Path options.

Anyways ---- back to how all this applies to you and your PCs. It wasn't really very hard for me to do all this using that table on page 45 of the 3e DMG, and there is a second table on that page about using animals as followers, and I think, you could easily edit that to create the sort of thing you are looking for for your PCs.

But, anyways, you can see, how it's possible for you to take the Leadership Feat and use it to give your animal lovers more options with their pets. And if you do it, the way I mentioned, your player than gets to use his PC at "full power" AND adds two animals to attack AS WELL.

I will also point out here, that when I use this sort of thing in a campaign, I AUTOMATICALLY give EVERY player the Leadership Feat for "free" when they reach Level 6, that way EVERYONE can add the two extra PCs to control per turn. That way it's fair to every one regardless of what class they are.

Now if you just follow strictly by the rules you are limited with what the followers can do. However, just use the tables to create a system and that make your own rules about how to handle the PCs and their followers/pets. ... A few I can think of off the top of my head are: Snake Charmer Path, Dragon Rider Path, Whale Singer Path, Horse Whisperer Path, Lion Tamer Path, Wolf Runner Path, Pied Piper Path ... Pied Piper Path: a Bard that plays his flute and hordes of dire rats attack the enemy? Got to remember that one! LOL!

You know, I can see me eventually adding a Pet Shop Owner Path, a Black Marketeer Path, and an Animal Breeder Path as well, by converting my Slave Master Path and turning the Slave Market into a Pet Shop... wow, I could really go crazy there, couldn't I? I could even add a Black Market off the side of my Slave Market, unsavory fellows selling rare magical beast. I wonder how much Unicorns would sell for? Could the PCs even afford a Unicorn? Would fights break out between bidders? What about Beholders? Could you even have a Beholder for a pet?

You know, I think I have more fun creating these crazy detailed settings than I do actually playing them! LOL!

I'm not sure if any of this is helpful to you or not. I hope it gave you some ideas for things you could do to help your PCs have animals without sacrificing other things.

#6
rampant
Jan 18, 2011 1:23:49 Um dude I think you're a little confused. Officially any character with the leadership feat got both followers and a cohort, or the options to get them anyway. Some players just wanted the cohort. Also the cohort could be any number of things including dragons, outsiders, or Humanoids with class levels.

Followers were generally assumed to be +0 ecl races with NPC class levels but I don't remember the precise rules for them.
#7
deadwor1d
Jan 18, 2011 22:14:49 Companion character. That looks like the option I am going to go with. The companion character (in this case, a pet) gets full actions, is run by the player who wants to control it, is created by the DM and counts as a party member for purposes of designing challenges. The beauty of it is you don't have to play one of the pet classes to have one. Just make it fit into your story and into the story provided by the DM.
#8
stargazer_dragon
Jan 18, 2011 23:26:51 guess curently I have something kinda like this, Curently I had one of the players play one of the mminor NPC during battles, and a few encounters ago they all got to play a few minions each during a battle. they loved it. for me it lets me focus on main NPC's and enimies
#9
Sabelkatten
Jan 19, 2011 1:50:56 If you hand out companions just remember that you're adding even more characters to the encounters with a corresponding increase in playing time!

Of course if you've got few players (2-3) adding a few more characters can be a good thing. I play in one game with just two PCs and we regularly get one companion each. Works very well.
#10
stargazer_dragon
Jan 19, 2011 12:50:00 we have 3 players but when we game we tend to game from 4 pm - 2 or 3 AM so plenty of time in the session to play, pluss as long as the npc r simple it adds mere seconds to each round and maybe 10 more minutes to each battle over all (counting increase in monsters and all) but for us this works allows more grand battles which fit the story line much better at curent
#11
undrave
Jan 22, 2011 14:54:42 You should look into the Sentinel Druid, they seem fairly well done for the purpose you want.

Summoner Druids have Summons that act when they aren't controlled so you might get your summoning jolly off better.

As for the Beastmaster, a quick and dirty houserule would be to make it so any powers that involves offhand weapon attacks can be attacks performed by the pet, essentially making the pet your 'offhand weapon'. Twin strike? You swing your two-hander at grunt A and the pet takes a bite of grunt B. You can do the same with archer multiattacks by letting the pet take any of the multi attacks while you take the rest (minimum 1). It also makes the minor action off hand weapon attack interesting since they can be minor action attack for your pets.

Companion character rules are also interesting off course.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Phantymwolf Jan 16, 2011 3:44:18	I apologize ahead of time if this is in the wrong forums, or if something like this has been discussed already, but this forum seemed to be the best place to get an answer. I am in the process of finishing up a homebrew setting and writing a campaign arc for it. I have several setting specific rules to help give it some of the flavor I have envisioned for it. I am also in the process of writing up some general house rules for my group in general. As I am doing this it occurs to me one of the things I want to house rule the most - 'pet' classes, the Summoner Wizard and the Beastmaster Ranger. The fact that a character takes a back seat so that the creature being controlled can have actions doesn't set well with me. In my view you may as well just play that creature, and that's not the point of these classes, at least to me it isn't. The point to me is the ability to have the companion (or summoned creature) as a bonus to playing that class, not have the class feature supercede the character entirely. In the case of the Summoner, they are are already giving up a daily power to have the creature in question, while Beastmasters have it worse, since they have to dedicate just about every power selection towards their companion. My group has had both classes played at the table and the players agree that something should be done, but none of them have a lot of experience tweaking rule systems, or a lot of experience with 4e as a whole. As these classes stand, they will never get played in one of our games because we just don't like how they are currently built. So I am looking for ways to houserule these classes to give them the ability to have the creature in play but also be able to still do stuff themselves. The immediate solution to me is to just allow the character to control his companion as a minor action for movement and a move action to allow it to make a standard action. This frees up the standard action for the character to use as he sees fit. Does this sound viable? Any other ideas or suggestions that would seem fair? And please no 'Fair is keeping them as is', I know they are balanced a specific way, but I believe they can be balanced differently to allow the character to shine alongside the creature rather than being there only as a catalyst for the creature to be there.
#2 rampant Jan 16, 2011 4:28:23	I'd have to check the summons, but you do realize that the beast master pet can already take its own move action when the PC does. You move it moves, and it can even be in different directions. As for the attacks and such, yeah these classes were designed to maintain the action economy that is so important in 4e. You have to be extra special careful when you screw with that. Now with the summoners I kinda get their beef, they expended a daily power and instead of some horrible nightmare beast that fights for them and leaves them free to unload fireballs they get a horrible nightmare beast that eats their actions, and does less damage per turn than they could by unloading a few nasty encounter powers. The Beastmasters again have it better since they have powers and feats designed to get both of them involved every turn. If you don't wanna choose all your powers to maximize your beast and player synergy then you don't have to anymore than a two-blade needs to only take two-weapon powers, or an archer needs only take bow powers, however as a with any ranger specialty you tend to lose out on your particular schtick when you step outside your specialty. However I think your group fails to appreciate the passive benefits of an extra body on the board. That is a space your opponent cannot occupy, a source of attacks of opportunities, an ally to flank with, a shield to hide behind, and an extra pair of eyes.
#3 slobo777a Jan 16, 2011 4:58:34	It's important to not leave other PCs behind by buffing only the classes that some of the players love. One rough-and-ready suggestion: "Restricted Action Points". Granted to ALL PCs. Refeshes to 1 "RAP" on a short rest. You may also cash in one AP = 2 "RAP" during a short rest, so that you can start an encounter with a up to 3 of them. A RAP can be used to grant an additional Standard Action, same as a normal AP. However, if you spend a RAP, you may only use it for: A Basic Attack, A Command to a companion, paying a Sustain cost. No class feature, power, race or feat benefits that apply to AP also apply to RAP. Only one RAP or AP can be played during your turn. You may however play multiple RAP in the same encounter (unlike AP). This does shift balance of power towards the PCs on every encounter, and might reduce benefits of having a Warlord in the party. A few classes that get good basic attacks (e.g. Druid) do very nicely out of it. It probably plays badly with the new Essentials builds. However, in the grand scheme of things, it shifts everyone up a little in power and lets the pets act a little more in concert with their owners. You may need to reduce damage or effects from pets so that their impact is roughly the same as other characters' basic attack powers. Although this seems quite radical, your alternative choices are going to involve much more detailed re-engineering of the rules to maintain balance.
#4 stargazer_dragon Jan 16, 2011 22:37:03	I had this problem also, one possible solution to maintain balence would be to revamp the powers, so that the beast powers grant the char and the beast a attack, then balence the damage of these attacks with other powers such as twin strike. So there is the feal of the pet and player both acting but the damage wise is no difrent then if a player had fired 2 arrows via twin strike or some other similar power. Since there is a huge slew of duel weapon powers acrost the classes that allow 2 attacks barrow heavily upon them to allow the player to have a multitude of attacks that let the beast and player hit. as for summons I honestly think they should be sustain minor and should get to use a standard along with the pc after all there are a huge multitude of dailies that have sustaining effects of = or greater power then the summon which can be killed even if the player does sustain it. balence wise daily power summonds should be balenced with taking a standard action with sustain minor as a rider to keap the summons alive. Past house ruling there is a multitude of feats that if taken could make the beast seam much more usefull though the exact names of them fail me bena whiel since we messed with them. Side note the shaman summon even as written has proven extreamly useful in combat specialy with a few feats to improve it's function
#5 eelkat Jan 18, 2011 0:49:43	Not sure how this would work in 4e, seeing how I was using 3e rules to do it in a 2e setting, but I think with some tweaking you could convert it over to 4e. I sort of created a system by which PCs (of ANY class) could add on "extras". Extras being lesser characters controlled by the player's PC, including minions, bodyguards, familiars (pets with powers), cultist worshippers, personal slaves, servants, devoted followers, ect. This was inspired by the fact that I was designing a campaign in which religion played a big part. Religion on the scale of "I'm a megalomanic and and going to save the world, follow me and be saved. Don't follow me and I'll kill you." So I needed to create a Cult Leader (Epic) Build for a Cleric PC, so that he could work his way up from sweet little cleric to insane overlord cult leader gone mad. This story line required that he gather up (brainwashed) followers. At first I was going to use this character as a villain and have him be a Mind Flyer. But than the more I thought about it, the more I started thinking - "Hey, I could create a whole series of Leadership Classes, that PCs could use." And so I did. On page 45 of 3e DMG is a section on Leadership. I don't recall seeing this table (or one like it) in any other edition of the DMG. I can't remember seeing it in 2e or 4e and I don't have a copy of 3.5e, so you'll have to get/have a copy of the 3eDMG so you can see/use the Leadership Table on page 45. In the PH on page 83, is listed Leadership Feat, followed by a notation that no PH information is included because it's an optional feat that required the DM's permission to use in game. I allow my players to add Leadership Feats. And in order for these "Extras" I created, your PCs HAVE to add the Leadership Feat, otherwise this won't work. Now, what the Leadership Feat OFFICIALLY does, is it allows your fighter characters to become leaders (Captains, General, etc) and add soldiers for them to lead, so that they can build up their own army. It allows none fighter type PCs to add a cohort (magical beast). Starting with Level 6, the PC can add up to 5 Level 1 followers. The table explains how to determin how many followers the PC gains (or loses) after each level. The chart goes up to a Level 25 PC having 135 followers (extra PCs under his control). That's the official rules. Here's how my homebrew rules change it: Instead of just using the Leadership as feats for a class, I made it a Paragon Path option for ANY class. Here are the ones I have at the moment (this is sort of a pet project of mine so I keep adding to it): LEADERSHIP PATH NAME (Class Prerequisite) --- type of followers Holy One (Cleric, Paladin, Shaman, Priest, Monk, Druid) - Worshipers, Faithful Ones Savior/The Chosen One (any) - Worshipers, Faithful Ones Cultist (Warlock, Cleric, Paladin, Rouge) - Worshipers, Faithful Ones Lord of the Manor (Aristocrat) - Servants Admiral (Swashbucklers, Pirate, Rouge, Fighter, Barbarian) - Cohorts, Soldiers Beastmaster (Shaman, Druid, Wizard, Mage) - Beasts, Familiars, Pets, Animal Friends Royal Magician (any magic user) - Apprentice Court Jester (Bard, Rouge, Jester) - Clowns, Cohorts Ringmaster (any) - Troupe General (Rouge, Fighter, Barbarian, Warlord, BattleMage) - Cohorts, Soldiers Slave Master (Warlock, Rouge, Aristocrat, Pirate, Barbarian) - Slaves Dark Lord (any) - Minions Unlike the official rules, the PC can't always just go an add followers. For example Slaves must be bought at Slave Markets and different races have different prices, while Servants must be hired (and paid monthly wages). There are bonuses such as Worshipers pay monthly tithes to the PC and Minions collect tributes and taxes for the PC. Apprentices have to pay a monthly tuition to the PC. And there are penalties such as Slaves can run away, with some races better at escaping than others. I had a lot of time to get all complicated and detailed with all of this and have pages of notes. Once I got going on this, I started creating a campaign set in an Illithid Community, where all the PCs are Mind Flayers, the campaign being played from their point of view, so I went all detailed crazy creating a Slave Market. I've got like 5 pages just detailing dice rolls for buying and selling various types of slaves! Oh well. I spent most of my time focusing on expanding the Cultist and Slave Master Paths, because those are the two I needed for my campaign, so ones like my version of the Beastmaster Path didn't get fleshed out yet. I can easily see my Beastmaster Path expanding to Noah's Ark proportions though, with a PC that ultimately could call up armies of animals to his aid. When it comes to actual battles and stuff, I let the player control 3 of their characters. They can choose the PC and 2 followers, or the PC stands back while 3 of his followers do all the work. (Good for Mind Flayer PCs who would rather hide behind their slaves than fight). But this variation allows them 3 spells, attacks, throws, whatever. In other words EACH player gets to control 3 different PCs using my strange version of Leadership Path options. Anyways ---- back to how all this applies to you and your PCs. It wasn't really very hard for me to do all this using that table on page 45 of the 3e DMG, and there is a second table on that page about using animals as followers, and I think, you could easily edit that to create the sort of thing you are looking for for your PCs. But, anyways, you can see, how it's possible for you to take the Leadership Feat and use it to give your animal lovers more options with their pets. And if you do it, the way I mentioned, your player than gets to use his PC at "full power" AND adds two animals to attack AS WELL. I will also point out here, that when I use this sort of thing in a campaign, I AUTOMATICALLY give EVERY player the Leadership Feat for "free" when they reach Level 6, that way EVERYONE can add the two extra PCs to control per turn. That way it's fair to every one regardless of what class they are. Now if you just follow strictly by the rules you are limited with what the followers can do. However, just use the tables to create a system and that make your own rules about how to handle the PCs and their followers/pets. ... A few I can think of off the top of my head are: Snake Charmer Path, Dragon Rider Path, Whale Singer Path, Horse Whisperer Path, Lion Tamer Path, Wolf Runner Path, Pied Piper Path ... Pied Piper Path: a Bard that plays his flute and hordes of dire rats attack the enemy? Got to remember that one! LOL! You know, I can see me eventually adding a Pet Shop Owner Path, a Black Marketeer Path, and an Animal Breeder Path as well, by converting my Slave Master Path and turning the Slave Market into a Pet Shop... wow, I could really go crazy there, couldn't I? I could even add a Black Market off the side of my Slave Market, unsavory fellows selling rare magical beast. I wonder how much Unicorns would sell for? Could the PCs even afford a Unicorn? Would fights break out between bidders? What about Beholders? Could you even have a Beholder for a pet? You know, I think I have more fun creating these crazy detailed settings than I do actually playing them! LOL! I'm not sure if any of this is helpful to you or not. I hope it gave you some ideas for things you could do to help your PCs have animals without sacrificing other things.
#6 rampant Jan 18, 2011 1:23:49	Um dude I think you're a little confused. Officially any character with the leadership feat got both followers and a cohort, or the options to get them anyway. Some players just wanted the cohort. Also the cohort could be any number of things including dragons, outsiders, or Humanoids with class levels. Followers were generally assumed to be +0 ecl races with NPC class levels but I don't remember the precise rules for them.
#7 deadwor1d Jan 18, 2011 22:14:49	Companion character. That looks like the option I am going to go with. The companion character (in this case, a pet) gets full actions, is run by the player who wants to control it, is created by the DM and counts as a party member for purposes of designing challenges. The beauty of it is you don't have to play one of the pet classes to have one. Just make it fit into your story and into the story provided by the DM.
#8 stargazer_dragon Jan 18, 2011 23:26:51	guess curently I have something kinda like this, Curently I had one of the players play one of the mminor NPC during battles, and a few encounters ago they all got to play a few minions each during a battle. they loved it. for me it lets me focus on main NPC's and enimies
#9 Sabelkatten Jan 19, 2011 1:50:56	If you hand out companions just remember that you're adding even more characters to the encounters with a corresponding increase in playing time! Of course if you've got few players (2-3) adding a few more characters can be a good thing. I play in one game with just two PCs and we regularly get one companion each. Works very well.
#10 stargazer_dragon Jan 19, 2011 12:50:00	we have 3 players but when we game we tend to game from 4 pm - 2 or 3 AM so plenty of time in the session to play, pluss as long as the npc r simple it adds mere seconds to each round and maybe 10 more minutes to each battle over all (counting increase in monsters and all) but for us this works allows more grand battles which fit the story line much better at curent
#11 undrave Jan 22, 2011 14:54:42	You should look into the Sentinel Druid, they seem fairly well done for the purpose you want. Summoner Druids have Summons that act when they aren't controlled so you might get your summoning jolly off better. As for the Beastmaster, a quick and dirty houserule would be to make it so any powers that involves offhand weapon attacks can be attacks performed by the pet, essentially making the pet your 'offhand weapon'. Twin strike? You swing your two-hander at grunt A and the pet takes a bite of grunt B. You can do the same with archer multiattacks by letting the pet take any of the multi attacks while you take the rest (minimum 1). It also makes the minor action off hand weapon attack interesting since they can be minor action attack for your pets. Companion character rules are also interesting off course.