Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 frostden Jun 07, 2009 22:36:15	After playing D&D for a year now, I thought it would be fun to try my hand at making a class. The most interesting part of the classes to me is the unique gimmicks (Eg, Warden as a damage sponge, Druid's duality, Isolating Avenger) they each have, and how they loosely stick to that theme to give the class it's unified feel and playstyle. Rather than chuck it in a text document, I figured I'd write my early ideas up here, so that other people can add their own gimmicks, as well as give comments and critisisms on how fun, practical, and effective the ideas posted would be. Vector This characters gimmick would be the concept of a vector, a line between two places with an inherant direction. The powers would fall into two broad categories: Conduit: By using a minor action to place the origin and desination of his vector at different points, be it locations or characters, the Vector can transfer resources around the battlefield. Examples would be swapping positions, transfering hitpoints/conditions/buffs/powers/targets of attacks/damage/any gameplay concept between combatents or setting up encounter duration teleporters. Utility powers could involve transfering momentum between allies, allowing one character to use their move to reposition another. Geometry: Tracing a line between two points and targetting everything along that line would be simple. By putting the origin of the vector on a fixed square, and the destination on himself, the character trace out an arc which targets everyone the line passes over. Depending on the form of the vector, this could represent a line knocking people prone or decapitating them, a string which gains tension like a giant bow as catches on characters, or just be a new way to target characters to use the abilities mentioned in conduit on. Given the physics like nature of the class, abilities that allowed Portal style momentum conservation or gravity/time manipulation would also be plausable.
#2 frostden Jun 08, 2009 0:25:45	Suicidal There are a number of powers that go off when players are bloodied, and the Warden is a character that soaks up hitpoints. Would it be possible to make a character (Probably with the shadow power source) that was powered by taking damage, and some of it's best abilities happened when it when it died? This class would likely be a defender. One of it's class features would an easy way to come back from the dead (eg, a bonus at will which brings the character back to life.) When coming back to life, it is able to get off it's encounter and dalies. A large part of it's defender prowess comes from being able to lose all ongoing effects by dying. Other abilities would focus on taking damage onto itself to try and get into negative hit points (after all, healing starts at 0, so any damage beyond that is wasted. A very defendery move). Other abilities could feature using hit points to fuel damage, willfully using itself as a body shield, etc. There are a couple of fairly major design issues here, of course. The first would be how to apply basic healing powers to a class which wants to die, and the other would be how to "kill/incapacitate" a class which routinely goes into -ve hit points. My first thought would be to limit the number of times it can die per encounter. After that, it will want healing as much as the other classes, and in fact need it more to charge it's HP fueled powers. Another balancing option would be to give it wizard-like hit points, and make it's healing surge worth bloodied rather than half bloodied, and allow it to automatically spend one on dying.
#3 kieferz Jun 08, 2009 10:17:51	I wouldn't really make a class that worked by dying, unless it's an epic-only class. What you could do are powers that are Immediate reactions to becoming bloodied, with maybe a few that are Immediate Interrupts when reduced to 0. For example: Blood Mist: Martyr Utility 6 Encounter Shadow Immediate Reaction Close Burst 1 Trigger: You become bloodied Effect: The burst becomes a zone that grants concealment to any of your allies within it. The zone lasts until the end of your next turn.
#4 johnthedm7000 Jun 08, 2009 13:11:37	The Uncontrolled This might be good as an elemental class, or perhaps as a number of powers for the sorcerer, but a class that focuses on immediate interrupts and immediate reactions, with at-wills that trigger whether he wants them to or not (under certain situations). Encounter and Daily powers would mostly be interrupts as well, with them being powerful but only being usable in specific situations (such as an enemy charging you, or an enemy shifting within 3 squares of you). Utility powers could be fun, triggering off of failures or off of certain uses of skills (such as an acrobatics check to jump, or a Nature check made outdoors). Just an idea.
#5 frostden Jun 08, 2009 19:17:03	An interrupt gimmicked character could be fun, but there would be a few design challenges to overcome. 1. Other classes can choose when to use their at wills. If the character's triggers didn't go off, then they would essentially lose their turn. 2. DM controlled monsters avoiding the triggers, making the character not work. 3. Immediate interrupts constantly robbing the DM creatures of their attacks, potentially lessening the fun for him/her. My first thought would be to make it's class feature be something like "mutable triggers". It has a number of "trigger cards" which cover some almost guaranteed to come up events (eg, enemy targets me, enemy hits me, enemy moves adjacent, ally attacks target, ally hits target, ally is hit...etc). At the end of his turn, the character secretly chooses which trigger he is using as a minor action. This would stop the DM from avoiding it, but would make him have to deduce the players strategy to see what the player has decided. To stop interrupts being overpowered, save them for encounters and dailies. Have the plain reactions be quite powerful, to compensate for the chance that they don't come up. So, this would give a secretive type of play style, trying to anticipate the enemies actions to set up his own reactions.
#6 johnthedm7000 Jun 08, 2009 23:25:18	That'd be absolutely awesome, perhaps even having dailies with multiple effects based on the event that triggers them. For example: Enemy Shifts= Damage+Slowed (save ends) Enemy Attacks= Damage + (dazed) etc etc.
#7 shadowguard Jul 14, 2009 17:16:11	I cast greater Thread Necromancy
#8 shadowguard Jul 14, 2009 17:33:03	Combo System The characters gimmick is that it would feature a “Combo System”. The role would be striker and the “Combo System” would be its extra damage feature. It would be a mixture of Sorcerer, Monk and Psion and would be a super flashy, wire fu, crazy class. You would have your Initial attacks be “Combo Starters” which determine which attack stat you will use and also the defense that each Combo after it will target. Each attack power you gain is a “Combo Starter” and each attack power will have at the bottom a listed Combo effect. Adding on a Combo is a minor action and requires its own attack roll. Each combo after the first will take a cumulative -2 to attack rolls. Daily Attack powers would come with “Combo Finishers” Which would end the combo for the round but have more powerful effects. So a character would have to weigh the option of using a Combo Finisher early to make sure the better effect sticks or continue the combo for more added damage. If you fail with a Combo attack at any point it is considered a Combo Breaker and you grant combat advantage until the beginning of your next turn. Yes I have been playing to many fighting games recently
#9 vebrandsson Jul 14, 2009 23:45:43	The Morphist (for lack of a better name) A primal class, this one takes the concept of the druids wildshape to another level. Instead of having a single beast form with some powers you can use in it, your powers let you shift into beasts, and these shifting powers grant you access to powers related to that beasts nature. Each daily power grants you a form, and that form gives you an at will that functions as a melee basic and one or two minor powers that are somewhere in power between an at will and an encounter, but the catch is like some monster powers these recharge. Thus you can take one form an encounter and pretty much play out that encounter in that form. Your at wills and encounters are built around your "basic" form which is the class feature you get to choose, and can effect certain aspects of your daily (form) and encounter powers. Now in the forms themselves you would only be able to use the form's powers granted to you by it, and maybe your utilities and of course second wind. The biggest benifit to this is forms can function as almost classes in a box, one form can give you a minor recharging healing ability and a buff power on top of its at will, making you a mini-leader in that form, another can give you a marking function like a defender, your role becomes mutable, which is great. The biggest problem is that you have only at most 4 forms, and then when you're running low you may not have a form that fits the role you need to fill, which is a big bummer. So my thought after seeing the psion, who does not get the standard 2/4/4/7 power line up, is to instead reduce your encounter powers by 2 (or maybe your utility powers) to give you more dailies. The question is can it be done, and would it be balanced?
#10 Dark_Stryke Jul 15, 2009 10:34:59	Combo System The characters gimmick is that it would feature a “Combo System”. The role would be striker and the “Combo System” would be its extra damage feature. It would be a mixture of Sorcerer, Monk and Psion and would be a super flashy, wire fu, crazy class. You would have your Initial attacks be “Combo Starters” which determine which attack stat you will use and also the defense that each Combo after it will target. Each attack power you gain is a “Combo Starter” and each attack power will have at the bottom a listed Combo effect. Adding on a Combo is a minor action and requires its own attack roll. Each combo after the first will take a cumulative -2 to attack rolls. Daily Attack powers would come with “Combo Finishers” Which would end the combo for the round but have more powerful effects. So a character would have to weigh the option of using a Combo Finisher early to make sure the better effect sticks or continue the combo for more added damage. If you fail with a Combo attack at any point it is considered a Combo Breaker and you grant combat advantage until the beginning of your next turn. Yes I have been playing to many fighting games recently Actually, I've been tossing around an idea for the rogue from World of Warcraft. If you haven't played the game, here's a brief rundown: Most of your basic moves take a resource called Energy, which recharges very quickly (you have 100 and recover something like 10 or 20 per second). In addition, your basic moves add "combo points" to your target. Generally 1 combo point, but sometimes 2. A target can have a maximum of 5 combo points. In addition, you have "finishing moves" that use up all your combo points, but become more powerful with each combo point used. How it could be converted to 4E: Drop the energy system. Make your at-will powers into combo-generating abilities, make some of your encounter powers get stronger if you choose to use up some of your combo points, and make all or most of your daily powers into finishing moves that use all of your combo points. In addition, make an at-will ability that uses all your combo points, too, so you have things to do with them at low levels. I think it'd be interesting, though the only thing really differing it from the current rogue is mechanics, not flavor.
#11 vebrandsson Jul 15, 2009 12:35:56	I think it'd be interesting, though the only thing really differing it from the current rogue is mechanics, not flavor. Well using this system you can pretty much make it fit any idea you want, you could do anything from an elemental class that uses building elemental energies and finally unleashes cataclysmic (daily) powers with devastating effects, you could do the heavy armored martial striker that builds devastating sword combinations that have remarkable parries and counters built into them. The system is easily tied both mechanically and flavor to many different concepts, just figure out what you want to make. Also might I suggest your at-will that burns all combo points be a class feature minor action power that adds damage to your next attack, it will be a nice way to make use of excess points while still making your other attacks useful.
#12 Dark_Stryke Jul 16, 2009 1:18:40	Well using this system you can pretty much make it fit any idea you want, you could do anything from an elemental class that uses building elemental energies and finally unleashes cataclysmic (daily) powers with devastating effects, you could do the heavy armored martial striker that builds devastating sword combinations that have remarkable parries and counters built into them. The system is easily tied both mechanically and flavor to many different concepts, just figure out what you want to make. Very nice ideas. Also might I suggest your at-will that burns all combo points be a class feature minor action power that adds damage to your next attack, it will be a nice way to make use of excess points while still making your other attacks useful. I was going to make it a class feature (of course) standard action attack power that dealt extra damage (and possibly more [W]) based on the number of combo points you had, though I like that idea too.
#13 vebrandsson Jul 18, 2009 0:17:00	Very nice ideas. I was going to make it a class feature (of course) standard action attack power that dealt extra damage (and possibly more [W]) based on the number of combo points you had, though I like that idea too. I thank you for the compliments, if there is any other help I could offer please let me know.
#14 Dark_Stryke Jul 18, 2009 19:31:30	I thank you for the compliments, if there is any other help I could offer please let me know. Well, I must say you've helped to inspire me. I'm currently in the (very) preliminary stages of making an elemental (or arcane, or whatever) controller that uses this very mechanic. I've been thinking that one build will be a bit more striker-y and the other will be pure control. I've renamed the combo points into "Charge", "Elemental Charge" or "Soul Charge", not sure which one I like best. As of right now, one build gives you this feature: Overcharge At-Will <> Elemental Minor Action Effect: Spend any amount of Charge (minimum 1). You gain a bonus on your next attack roll equal to the amount of charge spent. If the attack hits, it deals extra damage equal to the amount spent. Level 11: damage equal to the amount spent +2 Level 21: damage equal to the amount spent +4 and the other gives this one: Static Burst At-Will <> Elemental, Lightning Minor Action Effect: Spend any amount of charge (minimum 1). All enemies in a close burst X, where X is the amount of charge spent, are slowed until the end of your next turn. Level 11: Close Burst X+1 Level 21: Close Burst X+2 As for how the powers are going to be set up: You can have a maximum of 5 Charge Hitting with an at-will power grants 1 Charge. Encounters will be set up such that at level 30, 2 of them provide Charge, and 2 of them consume Charge. Generally, encounter powers will grant more Charge than at-will powers, or will grant it more reliably (such as gaining Charge whether the attack hits or misses) Daily powers will use all your Charge, and have a more powerful effect based on the amount of Charge consumed. However, this shouldn't be out of hand. You should still get a reasonable effect from spending 1 Charge, and a non-overpowered effect from spending 5. Some utilities will provide Charge. Paragon paths may provide new or different ways to use Charge. I'm going to have to work Charge into the multiclass feat somehow. That's my basic framework.
#15 vebrandsson Jul 19, 2009 20:39:21	I would think the class would be a better striker than a controller, given charge sounds more like a damage increasing ability (like hunters quarry or the sorcerer power features)
#16 Dark_Stryke Jul 20, 2009 2:56:32	I would think the class would be a better striker than a controller, given charge sounds more like a damage increasing ability (like hunters quarry or the sorcerer power features) Well, that's the interesting thing about it. It could be a straight-up damage increasing ability, or it could add a second effect to the power, or a greater effect. Example: Example Encounter Power Encounter (duh) <> Elemental, some damage type Standard Action, Ranged 10 Targets: One Creature Attack: Charisma vs. Reflex Hit: 1d8 + charisma modifier damage, and the target is dazed until the end of your next turn. Special: You may spend two charge if you hit with this power. If you do, the target is stunned instead.
#17 vebrandsson Jul 20, 2009 16:51:58	I suppose depending on what you wish the combo points to add one could in theory make it fit any role, though defender may be more difficult than some of the others unless you just do something simple like adding marks temporary to other creatures.
#18 shadowguard Jul 28, 2009 17:54:00	Build a Bear err Summon Workshop A class that gets a pet much likes the Beast Master Ranger, but unlike the ranger your powers can literally mold your Summon into different shapes or forms. Give your pet wings, flaming arms, extra limbs and other interesting stuff. Its pet would be much more a part of the combat then the rangers pet. Would be Psionic or Elemental.
#19 uristboatmurdered Jul 29, 2009 1:52:31	An easy way to do a combo system without doing bookkeeping for "combo points" would be to have encounters/dailies that key off ongoing damage for different effects, with at-wills that do ongoing damage of various types. An encounter or daily that did mediocre damage unless the enemy was suffering ongoing fire damage, in which case it'd make them violently explode, would be pretty cool. This goes double if the power does something different if the enemy is suffering ongoing cold damage or whatever.
#20 vebrandsson Jul 29, 2009 18:25:45	An easy way to do a combo system without doing bookkeeping for "combo points" would be to have encounters/dailies that key off ongoing damage for different effects, with at-wills that do ongoing damage of various types. An encounter or daily that did mediocre damage unless the enemy was suffering ongoing fire damage, in which case it'd make them violently explode, would be pretty cool. This goes double if the power does something different if the enemy is suffering ongoing cold damage or whatever. On going damage with an at will could be very powerful (particularly if an orb wizard can get his hands on it). Further given with out some kind of save penalty there is a 55% chance a target will save from the ongoing damage there is a 55% chance that what ever "combo" you are trying to set up won't be usable, and those are not good odds to bank a class on. Compared to psions I don't think the bookeeping will be all that hard, I don't see fighters having trouble keeping up with who they've marked or warlocks having difficulty remembering who they've cursed (and with rod of corruption that can get out of hand quick)