Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Namagem Sep 27, 2009 18:25:20	I've been mulling an idea in my head for a long time. Wizards have several different builds for several different strategies: Blaster, for simple long range damage; Summoning, for controlling the field with summoned creature; Minion Control, with bursts and blasts; and a couple of others. My idea is to make a arcane controller class whose builds are specialized with the various elements. Obviously, being an arcane controller means that it will draw several similarities to the Wizard, but my intent is to build on the idea of a wizard who, instead of focusing of styles of fighting, focuses on mastery of the elements. I don't have any hard mechanics figured out yet, but I do have many ideas. First off, this class would be a controller, made to manage the battlefield from afar, and still keep up the pressure. This means that the powers need to be a mix of ranged pecking and group damage. Thinking up these various abilities for the different elements will be hard, as I will need at least 3 atwills for each element and at least 2 encounters and two dailies per element for each power level. Hitpoints and armor proficiencies would be similar to the wizard, if not identical. Implements this class uses are Wands, Staves and Rods, which determine which of the three (that I have planned) elements the mage will use: Staves for Ice, Wands for Fire,  and Rods for Lightning. These are the three elements that I'm making so far, as they are the three most commonly associated with mages. Mages are also proficient with simple one handed light blades. Class features are where it gets interesting, and where I'll take a lot of flak for this idea. First off, the class features work similarly to the sorceror's. The mage gets one choice, which determines most of his traits (there are a couple that are universal, though, and I'll get to those in a second). Now would be a good time to mention the most potentially controvertial part of this class: Spell Points. Spell Points are simply a cost of powers. Instead of being restricted once per day, or once per encounter, every spell has a cost. This cost is directly related to the power of the spell. At will strength spells cost anywhere from Free to 3 Magic Points. Encounter strength spells cost arund a quarter of the total estimated Magic points of that level of spell. Daily strength powers cost about half of the estimated magic points of that level. The amount of Magic points a Mage gets is determined by his attributes: The primary attribute for all mages is Int, but each element has it's own attribute of focus. Fire is Charisma, Ice is Wisdom, and Lightning is Dexterity. A Mage's Magic point total is equal to his Inteligence plus his secondary attribute, plus his level. A first level Fire Mage with a 17 Int and a 16 Cha would have a total of 34 Magic Points for use. Which brings me to the Class Feature that every mage has: Spell Surge- When you use your second wind, you also regain 1/2 your total Magic Points. Since the daily powers are equal to 1/2 or less of the total, this makes it so that someone could get a daily power use to finish off the encounter, or if they used a bunch of their encounter and daily spells, they can get some for use with at wills, which cost signifigantly less. Each element also has its own specific class features. Fire mages have resist 5 Fire and can sacrifice 5 Magic Points to add 5 ongoing fire damage to any fire power; Ice Mages have resist 5 Cold and can Sacrifice 5 Magic Points to add Slowed (save ends) to any cold power; Lighning Mages have resist 5 Lightning and can sacrifice 5 Magic Points to deal 5 damage to all adjacent creatures with any lightning power. All of these require the power to hit first. Any class can take any element's power, but classes that do this don't get the elemental bonuses with those powers. There are a couple more which could be added.   Sorry for the Wall of text, but I've put a lot of thought into this. Any thoughts, reactions, flames, ideas?
#2 generalhenry Sep 27, 2009 20:04:43	my intent is to build on the idea of a wizard who, instead of focusing of styles of fighting, focuses on mastery of the elements. could it be built with variant class features, feats and powers? Staff of Ice, Wand of Fire,  and Rod of Lightning as variant class features   Spell Points.   have you seen the 4E psion?
#3 Namagem Sep 27, 2009 20:19:45	It could, but my idea is mostly about the spellpoints and the element specific features. Notice the lack of cantrips; I'm planning on making specific cantrips for each element, which admittedly could be made by simply saying "Instead of the normal cantrips, a wand of fire user blah blah blah", but I think it would work best as it's own class. My idea is 90% based on the Shining Force mage.   Yes; did you read my post? My Spell Points are nothing at all like the 4E Power Points.
#4 generalhenry Sep 27, 2009 21:44:21	Yes; did you read my post? My Spell Points are nothing at all like the 4E Power Points.   yep read the whole post.   I just have my doubts about trying to rebuild the 4E action system from the group up.   IMHO it's overly ambitious.   And I don't see a clear enough benefit.
#5 DanTracker Sep 28, 2009 6:49:53	i would love to see the elemental power source pushed forward. since those don't use arcane energy, but elemental energy, you could easily remove cantrips and employ a power point system. but, i'd keep it to small numbers more like the psion uses in the power point mechanics. thus, you could work up the elemental classes among multiple roles instead of just the controller archetype. because there is nothing published in the elemental power source, you're forays could prove useful to getting that spurred forward. as it would be introducing a currently unused power source, a bit of new mechanics could be an intriguing way to give it extra flair. by giving each element a different set of low-level powers based on the element itself, you could look to the genasi for some ideas. also, that could borrow some facets of the warlock pacts, each one having an elemental boon similar to the pacts having pact-boons. i'd be interested in seeing the elemental power source grow, because it would be a good way to create specialties within the elements that arcane doesn't support quite as directly. [i've got a fire wizard and an ice wizard, but if i wanted to really build up my list of elemental wizards, i'd have to start homebrewing.] another fun aspect of this is that the roles might have all the elements available to them, but use them in different ways. the defender might have some similarities to the warden in the way that it uses elements and elemental forms for defense. a leader may use little of the elements, but still have access to the elements in aiding allies, such as a wind flavored slide or such. the controller can branch into blaster, minion master, and others. the striker could be all blaster or form elemental weapons for melee. anyway, just my thoughts. if you simply want to rework arcane, i think that would be a missed opportunity to introduce the elemental power source and introduce some new mechanics that help define it as a power source.
#6 DanTracker Sep 28, 2009 6:58:27	Yes; did you read my post? My Spell Points are nothing at all like the 4E Power Points.  yep read the whole post.  I just have my doubts about trying to rebuild the 4E action system from the group up.  IMHO it's overly ambitious.   And I don't see a clear enough benefit. i read the whoel thing too. dude the spell points is too weird. simplify it in a way that also allows it to scale by level. if it is based on ability scores, those don't often grow very much. also, by making the powers paid for as well as separating them by at-will, encounter, daily; you're really telling the player, you've got to 'buy' your powers, so ti had better really be worth your spell points to do that in a combat encounter. it also seems to draw us back toward mana and spells per day. but, i had my say in another post.
#7 corw1n Sep 28, 2009 8:12:12	While I like the idea behind this, having created a set of classes in 3.5 with a buddy along a very similar vein, I don't think the Spell Point mechanic would be very practical without a lot of work for balancing and making the class worth taking, at least within the default 4E rules. I think an elemental power source such as DanTracker is suggesting, would allow the flavor and specialization you seem to be wanting for a wizard/controller type, while also allowing for other roles to get in on the fun. With an elemental power source, I too see the defender using earth and mountain based powers and walls, a striker who doesn't use much armor but flows around the battlefield(i.e. has a bonus against opportunity attacks) like water to strike where he is needed most. There are a lot of possibilities in such a power source, but in the end, it's your game, play how you want to. To balance Spell Points, I would make it 15 + your main stat at 1st level, and add a static number  each level similar to how hit points progress. This would allow an ever growing pool of Spell Points with a decent pool to begin with, without much math added or complexity. If daily powers are worth roughly 1/2 your spell points, what is to stop a player(read: munchkin) from blowing 2 dailies in a given encounter and use a second wind, to then use a third daily in a single encounter, possible at level one. I do not mean to sound harsh but my group has its optimizers(myself included) and if I could do something like that at first level I would, and spend the 1st round of the next encounter using second wind again. Now I may have misread something regarding the actual amount of points regained from the universal feature you have presented, but this does have the drawback of leaving you essentially out of a fight for a small amount of time, made up by the fact that the first encounter of the day, you could blow two dailies in one round(spending an action point) and go on your merry way. Again, these critiques are not meant to sound "mean" or "contemptuous", just trying to think of how to break the system to help you balance it more.   Sorry for the wall of text. -Corw1n