Class Musings: Fighter - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 shimeran Jun 07, 2010 10:09:44	Hey folks, I've been taking a look at where classes have come from and where they're going on my blog. I'm going over the Fighter now and I'd like to get people's opinions. Here's the opening post: Now that we’ve laid out some ground work, I’d like to return to the Fighter for a bit and take a look at what could be done with the class. The 4E version of the class is well made and may be one of the strongest forms of the class to date. Heck, it may be one of the strongest classes in the game with solid item, feat, and power support. However, there are a few oddities. Tying the fighter to the same power structure as almost every other class does bring up in world questions. The most common of these is why they can’t try certain maneuvers twice without resting. I wasn’t until psionics came out that they started changing up the power structure. There’s also some feeling that characters can not try stunts without the appropriate power, which not everyone is happy about. In this series I’ll be taking a look at how these issues and more might have been handled differently. The next post up should be on stunts and how they can be handled.
#2 erik_the_guy Jun 08, 2010 4:03:40	You say fighters, but I wonder why any class can't use their dailies again without resting. A houserule that I use changes 'daily powers' to 'inspired powers'. Daily attack powers no longer recharge with an extended rest. Instead, they are recharged when players complete quests, find inspiration, or find themselves entertained or very comfortable. When they reach a point of inspiration, or complete a quest, they recharge two daily attack powers and gain an action point. When they find a place that is very comfortable or safe, or they role play a situation in a way that develops character, one daily attack and an action point. Such an event can apply to one character (the elf appreciates the beauty of the enchanted waterfall) or the entire party (the players slay the dragon). They do not have to reset to one action point with an extended rest, they can carry over extra points. Finally, when they complete an adventure, they reset to one action point and recharge dailies. Daily utility powers are still recharged with an extended rest. They can optionally be recharged at these inspiration points. I find this encourages much longer adventuring days. It also solves the problem of why the fighter suddenly can't do his move again (does he pull a muscle every time he uses a daily?)
#3 shimeran Jun 11, 2010 9:36:30	I get why dailies are there from a mechanical perspective. The idea seems to be that it adds a layer of strategic thinking as the players have to decide between conserving resources or going all out. The big issue there is the mechanical cost to recharge is very small and the rewards for doing so are generally higher than the perks for going a long time without rest (barring a few magic items). I do agree that fiction wise it's a bit strange, especially for martial maneuvers. It's easier to explain away magic as coming in limited use charges, as magic is more readily defined by the setting. I've been leaning toward an approach somewhat similar to what you have here. I'm basically thinking of treating dailies as heroic reserves which let the character push themselves to their limits. For martial characters, this generally means pulling of very difficult stunts, acting with exceptional speed or power, or drawing on hidden resources. The character can try the same maneuvers without spending these reserves, but the tasks you'd use them on are generally pretty difficult to pull off without them. I do like the idea of recharging these reserves. It might also be an interesting idea to aware a few for moments of awesomeness or strong roleplaying. I'm also going over what to do with encounter powers as they have similar issues. I may take a similar approach where the character can attempt them at any time but is only guaranteed a strong change of success occasionally. I'm not sure as I'll stick with the current encounter powers model for this however as it does have an issue with dropping the characters down to grinding away with at will powers in long battles.
#4 Damon_Tor Jun 12, 2010 1:12:27	Daily and encounter powers are a narrative device more than a roleplay device: they need to use them infrequently for the same reason the Power Rangers don't form the Megazord the second Zordon tells them trouble is afoot. The epic and awesome things happen all the time they cease to be epic and awesome. Watch some Anime: at some point, whatever the anime character's "ultimate technique" is stops being a "daily" power and starts being "at-will" at which point it becomes boring. (Really Inuyasha? Windscar? I never would have guessed. Goku is going Super Sayan? Over 9000 you say? Gee, that's new.)
#5 ceiling90 Jun 12, 2010 3:13:27	I think from a gamist view, it just doesn't happen often enough, there isn't quite a build up to the Daily power, it's just sort of there and when you're done using it, you're done and you gotta wait. As a narrative tool, it works out beautifully; though you could feasibly change the idea of a "daily" to maybe one of "scene" or so.
#6 urpriest Jun 13, 2010 0:12:15	I think from a gamist view, it just doesn't happen often enough, there isn't quite a build up to the Daily power, it's just sort of there and when you're done using it, you're done and you gotta wait. As a narrative tool, it works out beautifully; though you could feasibly change the idea of a "daily" to maybe one of "scene" or so. Perhaps an "adventurely"? Then players would be less likely to save up daily powers in case they fought anything later in the day or silly things like that. Daily powers that aren't used to get out of tight spots would be brought out for the climactic scene. Give XP at the end of adventures rather than sessions and it gives it mechanical definition.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

shimeran

Jun 07, 2010 10:09:44

Hey folks, I've been taking a look at where classes have come from and where they're going on my blog. I'm going over the Fighter now and I'd like to get people's opinions. Here's the opening post:

Now that we’ve laid out some ground work, I’d like to return to the Fighter for a bit and take a look at what could be done with the class.

The 4E version of the class is well made and may be one of the strongest forms of the class to date. Heck, it may be one of the strongest classes in the game with solid item, feat, and power support.

However, there are a few oddities. Tying the fighter to the same power structure as almost every other class does bring up in world questions. The most common of these is why they can’t try certain maneuvers twice without resting. I wasn’t until psionics came out that they started changing up the power structure.

There’s also some feeling that characters can not try stunts without the appropriate power, which not everyone is happy about.

In this series I’ll be taking a look at how these issues and more might have been handled differently. The next post up should be on stunts and how they can be handled.

erik_the_guy

Jun 08, 2010 4:03:40

You say fighters, but I wonder why any class can't use their dailies again without resting.

A houserule that I use changes 'daily powers' to 'inspired powers'. Daily attack powers no longer recharge with an extended rest. Instead, they are recharged when players complete quests, find inspiration, or find themselves entertained or very comfortable.

When they reach a point of inspiration, or complete a quest, they recharge two daily attack powers and gain an action point.
When they find a place that is very comfortable or safe, or they role play a situation in a way that develops character, one daily attack and an action point.
Such an event can apply to one character (the elf appreciates the beauty of the enchanted waterfall) or the entire party (the players slay the dragon).
They do not have to reset to one action point with an extended rest, they can carry over extra points.
Finally, when they complete an adventure, they reset to one action point and recharge dailies.

Daily utility powers are still recharged with an extended rest. They can optionally be recharged at these inspiration points.

I find this encourages much longer adventuring days. It also solves the problem of why the fighter suddenly can't do his move again (does he pull a muscle every time he uses a daily?)

shimeran

Jun 11, 2010 9:36:30

I get why dailies are there from a mechanical perspective. The idea seems to be that it adds a layer of strategic thinking as the players have to decide between conserving resources or going all out. The big issue there is the mechanical cost to recharge is very small and the rewards for doing so are generally higher than the perks for going a long time without rest (barring a few magic items).

I do agree that fiction wise it's a bit strange, especially for martial maneuvers. It's easier to explain away magic as coming in limited use charges, as magic is more readily defined by the setting.

I've been leaning toward an approach somewhat similar to what you have here. I'm basically thinking of treating dailies as heroic reserves which let the character push themselves to their limits. For martial characters, this generally means pulling of very difficult stunts, acting with exceptional speed or power, or drawing on hidden resources. The character can try the same maneuvers without spending these reserves, but the tasks you'd use them on are generally pretty difficult to pull off without them.

I do like the idea of recharging these reserves. It might also be an interesting idea to aware a few for moments of awesomeness or strong roleplaying.

I'm also going over what to do with encounter powers as they have similar issues. I may take a similar approach where the character can attempt them at any time but is only guaranteed a strong change of success occasionally. I'm not sure as I'll stick with the current encounter powers model for this however as it does have an issue with dropping the characters down to grinding away with at will powers in long battles.

Damon_Tor

Jun 12, 2010 1:12:27

Daily and encounter powers are a narrative device more than a roleplay device: they need to use them infrequently for the same reason the Power Rangers don't form the Megazord the second Zordon tells them trouble is afoot. The epic and awesome things happen all the time they cease to be epic and awesome.

Watch some Anime: at some point, whatever the anime character's "ultimate technique" is stops being a "daily" power and starts being "at-will" at which point it becomes boring. (Really Inuyasha? Windscar? I never would have guessed. Goku is going Super Sayan? Over 9000 you say? Gee, that's new.)

ceiling90

Jun 12, 2010 3:13:27

I think from a gamist view, it just doesn't happen often enough, there isn't quite a build up to the Daily power, it's just sort of there and when you're done using it, you're done and you gotta wait. As a narrative tool, it works out beautifully; though you could feasibly change the idea of a "daily" to maybe one of "scene" or so.

urpriest

Jun 13, 2010 0:12:15

I think from a gamist view, it just doesn't happen often enough, there isn't quite a build up to the Daily power, it's just sort of there and when you're done using it, you're done and you gotta wait. As a narrative tool, it works out beautifully; though you could feasibly change the idea of a "daily" to maybe one of "scene" or so.

Perhaps an "adventurely"? Then players would be less likely to save up daily powers in case they fought anything later in the day or silly things like that. Daily powers that aren't used to get out of tight spots would be brought out for the climactic scene. Give XP at the end of adventures rather than sessions and it gives it mechanical definition.