Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 chaosfang Jan 22, 2012 17:50:44	With the strings of ideas floating around here, and to provide a complete presentation of the classless system, it was about time that I transferred it to a new thread, so that people don't have to look through all 7+ pages of that thread to figure out the details on the system changes made by this homebrew. Table of Contents Introduction Changes I. Definition of Terms II. Character Creation --A. Race --B. Role --C. Powers III. Actions Available IV. Using Original 4E Options V. Optional Systems --A. Feat System --B. Skill System --C. Tier System
#2 chaosfang Jan 22, 2012 17:59:40	Introduction This system originally began as a mental exercise, just to see how flexible the 4E modularity methodology really is.   However, through the nudgings of mhbjarkistef, I have continued to develop it, possibly to the point where it could be considered a completely different beast from 4E, even though it is still 100% compatible with the parent system. As I mentioned in the original thread, the inspiration of this system came primarily from two sources: Gamma World 4E, a post-apocalyptic, humor-rich game based completely off 4E, and Dungeon Master's Guide 2 which, among many other wonderful toys it gave to the DM, included the Character Companions. This system attempts to utilize those two elements, as well as elements introduced in the Essentials product line of D&D 4E, adding a few spins of my own on the system. Changes 24 February 2012 - Upon realizing that the Weapon keyword was not necessary for most of the weapon powers (see: Unseelie Agent theme), all powers that have the weapon keyword EXCEPT Basic Attacks AND Greater Cleave was removed. 16 February 2012 - Made corrections in Chapter 4, to clarify the effects of converting from original 4E to Classless 4E. - Adjusted Deadly Strike, Life-Giving Word, Role Master, Harrying Assault, Spellblade, Pummeling Crash, Magical Pillar, Spectral Summon, Adrenaline Rush, and Magical Storm. - Added Universal Utilities, which all characters gain. - Added Greater Cleave. 14 February 2012 - Happy Valentine's Day! - Made changes to a lot of powers, in part to allow their use with an implement-based basic attack power. - Added Mana Shock, an implement-based basic attack.  It is not considered a replacement for Basic Attack (because being a spellcaster doesn't necessarily negate your punching capability), but it does add some simple control effects, so I considered it as a selectable at-will attack power. - Added Role Master, and allowed single-role characters to utilize the power to close the power gap between them and dual-role characters. - Changed Sneak Attack to Deadly Strike, and changed the Striker benefit yet again.  So now the [easily trivial in 4E post-Essentials] need for combat advantage is removed, and Striker primary/Secondary simply deal a lot more damage. 13 February 2012 - Switched the leader benefits of Spellblade and Harrying Assault, for better thematic sense 12 February 2012 - Adjusted Magical Burst, Life-Giving Word, Control Zone - Removed Power Strike for now 10 February 2012 - Fixed Foe's Folly to work with the marked condition. - Increased the use of Control Zone. - Added Power Strike. - Fixed Magical Burst wording and timing - Changed Cleaving Strike's Leader benefit from shift to move 09 February 2012 - Renamed Sneaky Surprise to Sneak Attack, and allowed it to do damage from afar, with the additional benefit of even more damage if you're a dedicated striker and you have combat advantage - Transferred powers to the powers section. - Fixed a variety of powers. 05 February 2012 - made several fixes and tweaks to Foe's Folly, Sneaky Surprise and Control Zone 31 January 2012 - removed Stalwart Defender, and adjusted Foe's Folly - fixed Swift Action and Triggered Action - entered the Using Original 4E Options section 23 January 2012 - Thread created, elements from previous thread merged, fixed in appearance, and presented in this thread.
#3 chaosfang Jan 22, 2012 18:24:43	I. Definition of Terms Due to the differences between the original 4E and this DIY 4E, some terms have to be established. Elemental Affinity refers to the types of damage you can deal when using powers that have the Implement keyword. Skills are now keywords that can enhance actions or powers that have the associated skill.  This change is necessary in order to make skills an optional system, in part because when you look at the original 4E system, skill checks are basically specialized ability checks (so DMs can already "fudge it" by calling ability checks and ignoring the skill system).  In addition, making them keywords instead of a completely separate skill allows players and DMs alike options to tweak their checks as needed.  For instance, players might want to Intimidate with their physical prowess: normally it would require a magical item to do so, but with this system it is simply the use of a Strength check, with bonuses from their Intimidate modifiers.  Another example would be the use of Arcana instead of Diplomacy: In this system you actually get three choices: Intelligence checks with the Diplomacy keyword (perhaps using your stocked knowledge to provide key diplomatic terms), Charisma checks with the Arcana keyword (magically influencing your words), and Intelligence checks with the Arcana keyword (casting a spell that influences the creatures' minds). Swift Actions are actions that can be used only once per turn.  This replaces most non-standard, non-move actions found in the original system, so that players now only need to worry about three things: Move, Swift, Standard. Roles provide the core guidelines on how your character would contribute to combat in particular.  Because of the ability check-centric nature of this system, and the lack of classes, there is an intent on giving freedom to roleplay for players and DMs alike, encouraging the use of situational bonuses or even auto-successes for situations most appropriate for a PC's background. While the term might be odd in this system, Classes are defined in this system as a collection of features and roles, pre-packaged to evoke a specific feel. Levels in this system are used to track the progress of the characters and the group as a whole, as well as represent how strong one creature is relative to other creatures.  Regardless if you use the feat subsystem (or even if you discard the roles completely), character progression is still as follows: Level 1 : Character creation, including acquisition of two at-will attack powers, one encounter attack power, and one daily attack power Level 2 : One utility power Level 3 : One encounter attack power Level 4 : Raise two stats by 1 Level 5 : One daily attack power Level 6 : One utility power Level 7 : One encounter power Level 8 : Raise two stats by 1 Level 9 : One daily attack power Level 10 : One utility power Level 11 : One encounter attack power, raise all stats by 1 Level 12 : One utility power Level 13 : Replace one encounter attack power Level 14 : Raise two stats by 1 Level 15 : Replace one daily attack power Level 16 : One utility power Level 17 : Replace one encounter attack power Level 18 : Raise two stats by 1 Level 19 : Replace one daily attack power Level 20 : One daily attack power Level 21 : Replace one encounter attack power, raise all stats by 1 Level 22 : One utility power Level 23 : Replace one encounter attack power Level 24 : Raise two stats by 1 Level 25 : Replace one daily attack power Level 26 : One utility power Level 27 : Replace one encounter attack power Level 28 : Raise two stats by 1 Level 29 : Replace one daily attack power Level 30 : none. For those who may be wondering why level 30 is a "dead level" of sorts, it is because this is effectively the end of your character's journey, sipping with gods, having the universe and parallel planes of existence within the palm of your hands.  At this point, you're so powerful that it doesn't really matter if you have a level 30 feature or not This is the skeletal framework of D&D 4E from levels 1-30, with additional niceties depending on feats, features, paragon paths and epic destinies [and I believe the reason why Demigod's level 30 feature didn't really matter in the developer's eyes at first is because even if it was "broken", there's no further character progress anyway, so with the campaign coming to a close, might as well let the players go crazy for the few hours they'd be using it... although reigning it in was perfectly sensible, given how out-of-line it was relative to other epic destinies ]. Feats in this system are acquired at the same levels as original 4E, except in this instance, feats are no longer mechanical fixes to the system's math, but instead are tweaks that allow you to modify your character as you go along; in other words, the 4E class features would be "baked" into feats, which you could take and tweak as you so desire.  In relation to classes, using classes with feats would be offering players highly recommended feats to give the basic "feel" of that class, while allowing more "do-it-yourself" players to establish their own character development path.
#4 chaosfang Jan 22, 2012 19:02:45	II. Character Creation This section is divided into three portions: Races, Roles, and Powers.  The system assumes that PCs will progress at the same rate, much like how 4E currently works. Races define your "genetic" lineage, or bloodline.  Thus, all features presented in this section pertain to the benefits your character has from simply being one of that specific race. Roles define your character's functionality within a group.  There are four roles, as first established in 4E: Defender - your character focuses on protecting allies, even at your own peril.  Your abilities are naturally geared towards allowing you to take hits, keep enemies off your friends' backs, and taking vengeance on those who threaten your allies. Leader - your character focuses on enhancing allies, leading the group to victory.  Your abilities are naturally geared towards increasing your allies' capabilities, sometimes to the point where you grant allies attacks in your stead, or moving them to favorable positions. Controller - your character has a tool for every situation, manipulating and controlling the scenario to the best of the group's advantage.  Your abilities are naturally geared towards weakening and repositioning enemies, among other, more utilitarian efforts. Striker - your character focuses on taking the big baddie down.  Your abilities are naturally geared towards neutralizing single-target threats. Unlike 4E however, instead of choosing a class with given roles, you instead choose up to two roles during character creation.  Optional, alternative systems could be used to change this later on, but roles would be the core feature of the system. Powers are abilities that your character develops throughout his lifetime.  These powers are modified by two things: a character's role (or roles), and optionally, feats.  There are basically two types of powers: attack powers, and utility powers.  In the broadest of sense, attack powers are powers that intend to harm others, while utility powers are powers that aim to help others. - - - - - When creating a character, use the following steps, instead of how it is normally done in 4E: Choose a race This will help you customize your character's racial benefits Determine your ability score (22 point-buy, array selection, or rolled ability scores) This will help you determine your Primary Ability (the highest ability score you have), and the Primary Ability modifier (which is Primary Ability Score/2 - 5, rounded down).  Your primary ability modifier mainly affects how damaging your attacks can be, although other situations may call for your primary ability modifier as well. Determine your hit points (HP) Hit points are determined in this manner: 7 + Constitution Score + Level * 5 Determine your daily healing surges Maximum healing surges per day are determined in this manner: 7 + Constitution Modifier Determine your defenses Armor Class: 9 + Level + Modifiers.  If you chose to wear Light Armor or no armor, add the higher of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier. Fortitude: 9 + Level + Modifiers + the higher of your Strength or Fortitude modifier Reflex: 9 + Level + Modifiers + the higher of your Dexterity or Intelligence modifier Will: 9 + Level + Modifiers + the higher of your Wisdom or Charisma modifier Determine your speed For most races, this is a speed of 6 squares, or 30 feet Determine your initiative modifier Initiative modifier = Your level + Dexterity modifier + additional modifiers Determine your attack bonus Accuracy = 4 + Level + situational modifiers, like Weapon Proficiency for attacks with the Weapon keyword Primary role Primary roles grant you an additional power or feature Secondary role Secondary roles modify your powers and features Elemental Affinity Whenever you make attacks with the Implement keyword, you can change the damage type of the power to one of the elements you have chosen as your Elemental Affinity. Choose two elements as your Elemental Affinity from the following list: Acid, Cold, Fire, Force, Lightning, Necrotic, Poison, Psychic, Radiant, Thunder Equipment At character creation, you get 100gp -- an abstraction of your life's earnings before you began adventuring -- as well as regular cloth armor (regular clothing).  Feel free to spend it as you wish, but in this system there are a few changes you may wish to take note of: Weapons: you can have one, two, or even a dozen various weapons, all described in any way you want.  Regardless, these are the stats of each weapon, and their cost: Unarmed/Improvised Attacks (Range 3/6 if ranged) Swift: +3 to hit, 1d4 damage [0 gp] Powerful: +2 to hit, 1d8 damage [0 gp] Light Weapons (Range 5/10 if ranged) One-Handed: +3 to hit, 1d8 damage [5 gp] Two-Handed: +2 to hit, 1d12 damage [15 gp] Heavy Weapons (Range 15/30 if ranged) One-Handed: +2 to hit, 1d10 damage [20 gp] Two-Handed: +2 to hit, 2d8 damage [30 gp] Armor Light: +3 Armor Bonus to AC [25 gp] Heavy: +7 Armor Bonus to AC [45 gp] Shield: +1 Shield Bonus to AC and Reflex [5 gp] Note that magical items have no effect on defenses and accuracy, unless specified
#5 jeremy-dnd-next Jan 22, 2012 19:09:52	Hey, great stuff - very interested to see where you're heading with this!  As someone who's involved with a similar effort, all ideas at how D&D could be played differently are on my radar. Keep creating!
#6 chaosfang Jan 22, 2012 20:37:39	Thanks Jeremy! in the meantime, I'll continue posting all the details as mentioned in the Table of Contents, if that's alright with you A. Races From lack of development time and resources, choosing a race from any player-available resource would be implemented, although note beforehand that the mechanical benefits of any race is far more restricted here than even in original 4E: as ability scores would have a far weaker impact in combat (and far greater impact outside of combat) due to the decoupling of ability scores -- and almost everything else -- from attack rolls, there would be little need to focus on character-based combat optimization, and more focus on team combat optimization and storytelling. [ Hitting in combat is usually a culmination of skill and luck, and it's up to the group and d20 to show how that culmination came about.  A strong fighter might smash his weapon through an enemy's armor, while a nimble fighter could be slicing through the gaps of his opponent's armor, and a smart fighter could be using the skills he learned in fencing class, whereas a wise warrior could time his attacks right, and a cunning warrior would use bluffs and feints to leave the enemy open to attack [mechanically STR/CON, DEX, INT, WIS, CHA fighters, all hitting the target].  With this in mind, and given how only the people who blatantly ignore combat anyway would avoid increasing their primary stat, why bother with complicating the math? Less bookkeeping, more storytelling if you ask me ] This will serve as a placeholder for races and racial features that would be different from how the classic 4E presented them.  In the meantime, here's how it works: The first time you create a character, one of the most important decisions would be your character's background, which is a mix of bloodline, history, and tendencies, among other bits. With regards to race, each race has a particular set of features, culture, and even common names.  Choosing a race provides you with certain mechanical benefits, but are generally restricted in this manner: Average height and weight.  This is primarily arbitrary (read: Fluff), although in certain instances like jumping to reach a dangling rope, this might actually come into play. +2 for to up to two stats, typically one stat that is common among all creatures of that race, while the other stat can vary between creatures of the same race.  For instance, dwarves are naturally tough, but not all dwarves are naturally drawn to the hammering of a forge or a battlefield.  Hence, the common stat is Constitution, whereas the variable stat is either Strength, or Wisdom (for the more spiritually-inclined worshippers of Moradin). Races that have no common stat -- currently only Humans have this drawback -- can instead gain a +1 racial bonus to all non-AC defenses. All races are medium unless specified. All races are speed 6 (can travel up to 6 squares / 30 feet) unless specified. All races know Common and one other language -- usually the language that is unique to their race -- unless specified. For those utilizing the skill system, all races are skilled in up two skills, granting a +2 racial bonus to those skills All races have two unique racial features All races have one racial utility encounter power Note that within a race can be found variations in their genes, also known as subraces.  These variations allow certain characters to have uniquely distinct features that vary even between those of the same race.  Regardless of subrace, however, these are the only racial elements that change with subraces: The non-Common language.  While on the character sheet the character speaks the same language as any other of their race -- for instance, Wood Elves, Grey Elves and Dark Elves all speak Elven --  in game there is likely a dialect difference within each subrace, so the DM might make Charisma checks and Wisdom checks more difficult to succeed when dealing with NPCs of a different subrace than the PCs, and easier when dealing with NPCs of the same subrace as that of the PCs.  This is an optional, mostly fluff-based difference however. The skill bonuses.  For instance, Wood Elves would be skilled in Nature, Grey Elves would be skilled in magic (Arcana), and Dark Elves would be skilled in Dungeoneering. The unique racial features.  Again with the elves as an example, Wood Elves would be skilled with bows, Grey Elves would be skilled with swords, and Dark Elves would have darkvision. The racial utility encounter power.  Again with elves, Wood Elves have Elven Accuracy, Grey Elves would have Fey Step, and Dark Elves could choose Cloud of Darkness. B. Roles Regardless if you accept it or not, D&D has always had roles for each player to bring to the table: be it "meatshield, healer, skill monkey, wizard" or "defender, leader, controller, striker", they've always been there from antiquity.  4E simply clarified these roles and made their contributions more equally distributed.  This system aims to bring it down to the basics and expand on that, by allowing players to create their own characters based on what they can do to help allies in need. These roles also affect how you can utilize your powers.  Whenever you use a power, you can choose to have additional benefits, based on your role (or roles). If your DM has removed the use of roles, don't worry: most of those powers work even without any roles in mind, although that means that you may have far less interesting options at hand, in which case you might have to make your own options If your DM utilizes the feat system, it is completely possible that a feat will allow you to change at least the secondary role of your character, or even the primary role.  In these cases, please refer to the Optional System: Feats for more details. Here are the initial benefits for each role: Defender: You gain the Defender's Aura and Foe's Folly powers Controller: You gain the Control Zone power Striker: You gain the Deadly Strike power Leader: You gain the Life-Giving Word power
#42 mhbjarkistef Feb 04, 2012 19:22:52	You are all talk and no actions Mattador. Common, be creative with us :D Fluid Motion Prerequsite: You must be wearing light armor or no armor to gain the benefits of this feat. Benefit: Whenever you hit with an encounter or daily power that has a hit line you can use a swift action to move 3 squares until the end of your turn. Superior Weapon Proficiency: Benefit: You gain proficiency in a superior weapon of your choice. The looks of the weapons are all created in your minds eye. Choose one of the following effects, your new weapon gains that effect: · Reach (you can be one square further away from your target to hit it with melee attacks than usual) · High Crit (when you roll a d20 on an attack roll you deal 1[W] extra damage) · Brutal 2 (Whenever you roll a 1 or 2 on a [W] damage die, reroll the die. Repeat until the die shows a result higher then 2) · Reliable (1d12 becomes 2d6, 1d8 becomes 2d4, 2d8 becomes 4d4), according to the table below: Unarmed/Improvised Attacks (Range 3/6 if ranged) Powerful: +2 to hit, 2d4 damage [0 gp] Light Weapons (Range 5/10 if ranged) One-Handed: +3 to hit, 2d4 damage [5 gp] Two-Handed: +2 to hit, 2d6 damage [15 gp] Heavy Weapons (Range 15/30 if ranged) One-Handed: +2 to hit, 1d4+1d6 damage [20 gp] Two-Handed: +2 to hit, 4d4 damage [30 gp]  I actually did think about the themes and archtypes. This is what I came up with: Feats Feats are the most visible way your character differs from other characters, mechanically. You might have different stories and themes to your characters, but two strikers differ very little mechanically. Through feats you can implement changes on your character, improve certain stats and even change his/her fighting style completely. Class Feats At level 1 you can take specific feats that only match a class feat slot. These feats are special and require a lot of specializing to achieve, and is something you don't gain through experience. Feats categorized as as Class Feats can only be taken at level 1, or when your level advancement table grants you a class feat slot. See the selection of class feats in chapter ____. If none of these feat appeal to you, don't worry, you can take any other feat as your level 1 feat, given that you meet its prerequisites. Feat Bundles Some feats come in bundles. If you see the bundle line in any feat, it means that if you take it at level one as a class feat and gain the entire bundle as bonus feats. For example, taking the Ranger feat at level 1 does not only mean that you excel at fighting at a range, but means that you have pursued that path with ambition or through necessity. You must meet the prerequisite of bundled feats, and they are all optional, so if a specific feat does not match your character concept you can allows forgo it. If this happens, ask your DM if you can substite that feat with another similar feat that better matches your character concept. Some Feat bundles even come with special Feat Powers or Feat Utility Powers only available through that specific bundle This is sort of like World of Darkness, when you think about it. It's just classes and themes in a feat-type manner. We are simplifying things by instead of having "Themes, Archetypes, Classes and Feats" we have "Feats". Bundled feats all have a disclaimer "If you take this feat as your level 1 feat you can any of the following feats for which you meet the prerequisites" and all class feats have a special line saying "You can only take this feat at level 1, or when your level advancement table give you a Class Feat slot".
#43 mhbjarkistef Feb 04, 2012 19:40:00	Other character concepts missing: ·  Teleporter · Blademage.
#82 chaosfang Feb 08, 2012 9:55:17	Versatile Affinity Benefit: You gain 2 additional elemental affinities. This can also be just 1 additional elemental affinity, but due to lack of playtesting I have no idea which would be more balanced. It's a bit less on balancing issues as opposed to story issues; in fact I'm considering just one elemental affinity at level 1, with a feat to add elemental affinities, but I guess it's more of a fluff issue than anything
#122 mhbjarkistef Feb 11, 2012 7:39:20	Universal Attack: Everyone has this as level one, but can choose whether they use it in combat or not. For example, even a non-magical fighter can let out an incredible roar, frightening his enemies and dealing psychic damage. Although it may not be his favourite attack it still counts as a Magic Bolt. This is why each magic bolt's keywords are decided when it is used. The example above would have the Fear and Psychic keywords. Most magic bolt attacks only have the type of damage they dealt as their keywords, such as fire, cold or thunder. Attack 1: You can only pick this attack in its appropriate slot (at-will/encounter/daily) if your are level 1 or higher. If the attack says "Attack 5" then you have to be level 5 or higher to use this attack. There, then we have these fixed...