Complete overhaul of the treasure system - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Complete overhaul of the treasure system

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Jaegar
May 19, 2009 16:41:29 This is currently a work in progress and is by no means complete. While trying to spec out the treasure parcels for my party of adventurers, I began wondering why the party would want items 4 levels above their own. Would it not make more sense to give them smaller, more useful groups of treasure? As it currently is, treasure is spent to imbue common items with magical properties anyway. Once a player gets the Enchant Item ritual, it doesn't matter what the party receives in combat, if it is not what they want, they can sell it and enchant a similar item with the bonuses they want.
This got me thinking of a new system of "loot". Every decently good fight should net the players at least 2 items they can and will use. However the items will not all be what I term "special". Some of them would be "Bracelets of Thievery" and would grant +X to any thievery checks, or "Ring of Inner Warmth" which would give +x cold resist. These items would either increase in quality over time, increasing the benefits) (that is not my first choice) or would be able to be sold and replaced with higher quality items. The bonuses are not going to be game-breakers, and will be vastly inferior to the "special" drops that will occur slightly less frequently.
The difficulty of that situation is the ability to change clothes, rings, armor etc to suit the situation. This is why I am going to restrict what you can carry as far as wearable items are concerned. It makes some sense to carry an extra sword around, but not extra gloves or rings or fancy headbands. Only 1 set of clothing/armor is allowed to be carried.
What I envision is the players appreciating the items dropped, but being completely thrilled when a "special" item drops. There is no sense in dropping alot of items that are not going to be used for a long period time.
Please critique this idea and if you have any suggestions let me know.
#2
silent_stone
May 20, 2009 0:30:41 Well, the only reason I can think of that a party would want magic items of a level higher than their own is because higher-level items are generally more powerful and/or valuable, and the party can't make such items themselves (yet).

The default setting as far as the buying/creating and selling of magic items is that you can only sell stuff for one-fifth the amount of gold it would cost to make the item. The Disenchant Magic Item ritual turns a magic item into one-fifth it's value in residuum, as well, so the process of just converting everything you get into the perfect magic items is very inefficient. Thus, utilizing what you get is somewhat preferential to wasting 80% of its value.

However, if you feel that it is best for the loot to more or less match the player's needs or desires, I don't see much problem with that.
#3
beholdergaze
May 20, 2009 8:29:05 ::wall of text crits for 824 damage::
#4
Jaegar
May 20, 2009 9:35:31 I find the magic items sell at 1/5th value rule to be absurd. 3/5ths is much closer to what would actually happen. But that is my inner economist talking.

The main problem I see in the future is players having to carry 4 levels of items that they cannot use yet. Why not just give them items of their level or level +1? If each player is going to get 1 item each level (not too much of a stretch, based upon DMG), why not have all items given usable. It will average out over time.
#5
spacehopper
May 20, 2009 9:54:06 You're getting confused over what item level means - i know, i did the same

PC's can use items of any level, at any level. That level+4 loot is perfectly useable the moment they pick it up, they do not have to wait until they reach the same level as the item in order to use is. Item level is just a guideline as to the value / power of the item in question, not a starting point for useability.
#6
mellored
May 20, 2009 10:06:26 They can use a lvl 5 weapon at lvl 1. You can use any item you have, the level is only for cost and what you can make.

The DMG say's only give them usable items (no daggers in a group without a rogue/sorcerer), the rest should be cash (art). The cash let's them pick up a few specific items, but the 1/5 rule is to keep them from constantly trading.
#7
Jaegar
May 20, 2009 14:26:58 Wow, that completely changes the system, and makes it actually feasible. Thanks for the info.
#8
Stuntman
May 20, 2009 15:23:39 The level of the item also tells you at what level your character has to be in order to create such an item. Giving items that are up to 4 levels higher allows players to use items they cannot make themselves. If players make their own items, they can customise the item they get to fit with their character. If you give an item as treasure that is of higher level than the party, they may not be able to customise the item, but the additional power of the item kind of offsets the lack of control the players have regarding the item they get. Also, it allows players to use items that they probably would not normally use.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Jaegar May 19, 2009 16:41:29	This is currently a work in progress and is by no means complete. While trying to spec out the treasure parcels for my party of adventurers, I began wondering why the party would want items 4 levels above their own. Would it not make more sense to give them smaller, more useful groups of treasure? As it currently is, treasure is spent to imbue common items with magical properties anyway. Once a player gets the Enchant Item ritual, it doesn't matter what the party receives in combat, if it is not what they want, they can sell it and enchant a similar item with the bonuses they want. This got me thinking of a new system of "loot". Every decently good fight should net the players at least 2 items they can and will use. However the items will not all be what I term "special". Some of them would be "Bracelets of Thievery" and would grant +X to any thievery checks, or "Ring of Inner Warmth" which would give +x cold resist. These items would either increase in quality over time, increasing the benefits) (that is not my first choice) or would be able to be sold and replaced with higher quality items. The bonuses are not going to be game-breakers, and will be vastly inferior to the "special" drops that will occur slightly less frequently. The difficulty of that situation is the ability to change clothes, rings, armor etc to suit the situation. This is why I am going to restrict what you can carry as far as wearable items are concerned. It makes some sense to carry an extra sword around, but not extra gloves or rings or fancy headbands. Only 1 set of clothing/armor is allowed to be carried. What I envision is the players appreciating the items dropped, but being completely thrilled when a "special" item drops. There is no sense in dropping alot of items that are not going to be used for a long period time. Please critique this idea and if you have any suggestions let me know.
#2 silent_stone May 20, 2009 0:30:41	Well, the only reason I can think of that a party would want magic items of a level higher than their own is because higher-level items are generally more powerful and/or valuable, and the party can't make such items themselves (yet). The default setting as far as the buying/creating and selling of magic items is that you can only sell stuff for one-fifth the amount of gold it would cost to make the item. The Disenchant Magic Item ritual turns a magic item into one-fifth it's value in residuum, as well, so the process of just converting everything you get into the perfect magic items is very inefficient. Thus, utilizing what you get is somewhat preferential to wasting 80% of its value. However, if you feel that it is best for the loot to more or less match the player's needs or desires, I don't see much problem with that.
#3 beholdergaze May 20, 2009 8:29:05	::wall of text crits for 824 damage::
#4 Jaegar May 20, 2009 9:35:31	I find the magic items sell at 1/5th value rule to be absurd. 3/5ths is much closer to what would actually happen. But that is my inner economist talking. The main problem I see in the future is players having to carry 4 levels of items that they cannot use yet. Why not just give them items of their level or level +1? If each player is going to get 1 item each level (not too much of a stretch, based upon DMG), why not have all items given usable. It will average out over time.
#5 spacehopper May 20, 2009 9:54:06	You're getting confused over what item level means - i know, i did the same PC's can use items of any level, at any level. That level+4 loot is perfectly useable the moment they pick it up, they do not have to wait until they reach the same level as the item in order to use is. Item level is just a guideline as to the value / power of the item in question, not a starting point for useability.
#6 mellored May 20, 2009 10:06:26	They can use a lvl 5 weapon at lvl 1. You can use any item you have, the level is only for cost and what you can make. The DMG say's only give them usable items (no daggers in a group without a rogue/sorcerer), the rest should be cash (art). The cash let's them pick up a few specific items, but the 1/5 rule is to keep them from constantly trading.
#7 Jaegar May 20, 2009 14:26:58	Wow, that completely changes the system, and makes it actually feasible. Thanks for the info.
#8 Stuntman May 20, 2009 15:23:39	The level of the item also tells you at what level your character has to be in order to create such an item. Giving items that are up to 4 levels higher allows players to use items they cannot make themselves. If players make their own items, they can customise the item they get to fit with their character. If you give an item as treasure that is of higher level than the party, they may not be able to customise the item, but the additional power of the item kind of offsets the lack of control the players have regarding the item they get. Also, it allows players to use items that they probably would not normally use.