Constitution as Hit-Points - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Constitution as Hit-Points

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
RalofTyr
Apr 04, 2012 17:00:11 I'm looking for a way to make combat a bit more realistic and lethal. Your hit-points are always your constitution score no matter what level you are; as you advance levels, your hit-points don't increase, but the other benefits do such as THAC0 etc.   I just want a hit to be a hit and not some abstract thing such as luck.

As for being wounded, your hit-point level constitutes your new constitution score. If you get hit bad, and your at 3 hit-points left, you're as a person with a 3 constitution score.

Now, I do realize that the average constitution scores are 9 to 12 so a long-sword-blow won't kill outright in most cases; just like in real life. However, a house-rule (20 = double-damage) or a really strong opponent can cause death in one hit.

I do realize that this is balanced for PC to NPC conflicts, mortal to mortal, but when faced with a monster, things can get real bad for the PCs.   I say, give the creatures a constitution score and multiply it by it's size or something like that to get a more realistic measure of life.

Thoughts? Has anyone done this before
#2
Eisenritter
Apr 04, 2012 18:09:02 Excellent idea! Now use it with a party of Hell'locks and battleminds and let me know how quick it turns into a death spiral.

*/sarcasm*
#3
mattador666
Apr 05, 2012 18:12:07 You're gonna need a lot of PCs. And lots of ways to get all those new PCs into your story. Talk to your players about the complexity of the characters they want to play. Get them to play faster. Don't break out the grid and minis unless you've got a nice, important set piece battle.

Personally, I wouldn't want to play with this rule.
#4
Reg06
Apr 05, 2012 18:59:31 Are you even talking about 4e?
#5
terishd
Apr 05, 2012 20:31:13 There is nothing new with this. It is an idea for realism, but it gets stagnant really quick. The next step is to consider armor as absorption, so now the players load up with really thick protection. Basically, it ends up being close to D&D, except the players are replacing armor instead of drinking potions of healing. In a way it is closer to reality, but further from fantasy -- and really not as much fun.

Still, try it. Maybe you can find a workable method that you and your players enjoy.
#6
Mythril_Sage
Apr 05, 2012 23:11:17 Personally if you're really into realism then rule that second winds grant temp hp instead of actual healing as a starting point.

If you want to make it even more challenging then any sort of non-magical healing only grants temp hp.

That should spice up your play nicely, and as a bonus discourage frequent short rests since temp hp is lost when you take a rest.

As a unique side effect players could spend healing surges in advance of a battle to provide a buffer for themselves...kind of like they're psyching themselves up for the event in preperation.
#7
RalofTyr
Apr 06, 2012 18:37:32 It's not for 4e but rather 2e: Dark Sun specifically. I like realism and I like the old D&D-style game, but I never cared for hit-points and wanted a hit to be a hit not an abstract idea.   I am tempted to use CP:2020 System. It's very lethal and can work, but it lacks the D&Dness.

Or I could make a compromise and say anthing rolled above a 17 goes to Constitution and Hit-points; that could allow an experienced gladiator to be effective against low-level fighters and not make mages more powerful as they get XP through spells.
#8
viemexis
Apr 07, 2012 12:25:30 I like this idea, generally. I don't think combat needs to simulate reality in depth, but I think it should be far more deadly. If I'm an unarmored mage or priest and someone comes up and gets a solid hit on me with an axe, I should be badly wounded or dead (or unconscious, if we don't want to make players roll up new characters). My tentative solution for the game I'm making is simply to have far less HP which does not automatically scale with level. As it stands, my characters have HP anywhere from 12 to 20 (depending on their base stats), and average damage for a melee weapon is about 6. That way even small amounts of damage (like 1d4) count for something, and people will actually be afraid of being hit in battle (as they should be).

I'm not sure what the difference would really be between my solution and yours, in practice. I think the important thing is to make being wounded a very bad thing. I'm thinking of making characters take penalties when at less than 1/2 health, so that being wounded actually feels different, as opposed to PCs and monsters being at the top of their game with 1 HP left -- which is just absurd.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 RalofTyr Apr 04, 2012 17:00:11	I'm looking for a way to make combat a bit more realistic and lethal. Your hit-points are always your constitution score no matter what level you are; as you advance levels, your hit-points don't increase, but the other benefits do such as THAC0 etc. I just want a hit to be a hit and not some abstract thing such as luck. As for being wounded, your hit-point level constitutes your new constitution score. If you get hit bad, and your at 3 hit-points left, you're as a person with a 3 constitution score. Now, I do realize that the average constitution scores are 9 to 12 so a long-sword-blow won't kill outright in most cases; just like in real life. However, a house-rule (20 = double-damage) or a really strong opponent can cause death in one hit. I do realize that this is balanced for PC to NPC conflicts, mortal to mortal, but when faced with a monster, things can get real bad for the PCs. I say, give the creatures a constitution score and multiply it by it's size or something like that to get a more realistic measure of life. Thoughts? Has anyone done this before
#2 Eisenritter Apr 04, 2012 18:09:02	Excellent idea! Now use it with a party of Hell'locks and battleminds and let me know how quick it turns into a death spiral. /sarcasm
#3 mattador666 Apr 05, 2012 18:12:07	You're gonna need a lot of PCs. And lots of ways to get all those new PCs into your story. Talk to your players about the complexity of the characters they want to play. Get them to play faster. Don't break out the grid and minis unless you've got a nice, important set piece battle. Personally, I wouldn't want to play with this rule.
#4 Reg06 Apr 05, 2012 18:59:31	Are you even talking about 4e?
#5 terishd Apr 05, 2012 20:31:13	There is nothing new with this. It is an idea for realism, but it gets stagnant really quick. The next step is to consider armor as absorption, so now the players load up with really thick protection. Basically, it ends up being close to D&D, except the players are replacing armor instead of drinking potions of healing. In a way it is closer to reality, but further from fantasy -- and really not as much fun. Still, try it. Maybe you can find a workable method that you and your players enjoy.
#6 Mythril_Sage Apr 05, 2012 23:11:17	Personally if you're really into realism then rule that second winds grant temp hp instead of actual healing as a starting point. If you want to make it even more challenging then any sort of non-magical healing only grants temp hp. That should spice up your play nicely, and as a bonus discourage frequent short rests since temp hp is lost when you take a rest. As a unique side effect players could spend healing surges in advance of a battle to provide a buffer for themselves...kind of like they're psyching themselves up for the event in preperation.
#7 RalofTyr Apr 06, 2012 18:37:32	It's not for 4e but rather 2e: Dark Sun specifically. I like realism and I like the old D&D-style game, but I never cared for hit-points and wanted a hit to be a hit not an abstract idea. I am tempted to use CP:2020 System. It's very lethal and can work, but it lacks the D&Dness. Or I could make a compromise and say anthing rolled above a 17 goes to Constitution and Hit-points; that could allow an experienced gladiator to be effective against low-level fighters and not make mages more powerful as they get XP through spells.
#8 viemexis Apr 07, 2012 12:25:30	I like this idea, generally. I don't think combat needs to simulate reality in depth, but I think it should be far more deadly. If I'm an unarmored mage or priest and someone comes up and gets a solid hit on me with an axe, I should be badly wounded or dead (or unconscious, if we don't want to make players roll up new characters). My tentative solution for the game I'm making is simply to have far less HP which does not automatically scale with level. As it stands, my characters have HP anywhere from 12 to 20 (depending on their base stats), and average damage for a melee weapon is about 6. That way even small amounts of damage (like 1d4) count for something, and people will actually be afraid of being hit in battle (as they should be). I'm not sure what the difference would really be between my solution and yours, in practice. I think the important thing is to make being wounded a very bad thing. I'm thinking of making characters take penalties when at less than 1/2 health, so that being wounded actually feels different, as opposed to PCs and monsters being at the top of their game with 1 HP left -- which is just absurd.