Crafting Rules (PEACH) - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Crafting Rules (PEACH)

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Lineov
Oct 21, 2008 22:52:20 So as we all know (and some of us hate) there are no specific rules for crafting items in 4e. Previous versions had some sort of rule or craft check for making things (magical or non) and I'm aware of enchanting rules or alchemy rules etc. for working with other things, but I'd like to get your guys' take on what you use for craft rules. Let me know what you think, or give suggestions to help or what you use.

Crafting:
It doesn't really matter what your characters want to craft, but when they give you an idea of what they want to create, you come up with a target number that they have to reach by rolling a d20 (once per day, in game) and having them add their INT modifier to each roll (minimum 0). (As of right now I don't let characters that have an Int score of 9 or less craft.) After they have reached this number, have them roll a final d20 (adding no bonuses) this final roll represents the actual quality of the product they are creating.

Example: I have an Eladrin Wizard who helps farmers, he is (in his spare time while not killing baddies left and right) trying to work his arcane power to create a spell to assist farmers with watering crops. I've made the target for this creation 400. (It's not inherently used to break mechanics of the game, but could if they were say stuck in a desert without water). At the end of each day he makes 1d20 and adds 5 for his INT mod. Then subtracts that from the 400 (or whatever is the current total from yesterday). When he reaches 0 he will immediately be allowed 1d20 to determine how well his spell works. If his final roll is decent I'm thinking on making it rain in a 5x5 foot area lightly for about 1 minute (10 rounds).

Suggestions?
#2
the_jew
Oct 22, 2008 23:56:00 Sounds like an interesting idea, but I think that you should work out a percentile chart for the final role, at that point where he lands on it (d20 chart works as well) it decides what the ritual he made can do and he learns that ritual the level and everything of it. it can be activated at that moment, or if he wants to activate it later he needs to find the components for the ritual. the logic behind this is simple what he is doing is basically craft ritual (if we are thinking in 3.0 terms for a moment) he is crafting a ritual to solve a certain problem it takes a lot of down time, but in the end creates a useful spell for the party and helpful for the Farmers.
the reason for a ritual is simple, if he makes something that says I make it rain, well lets just say my friends and I have killed with create water before. If you make a normal ritual on the other hand, then you can make it so while it is possible to work the spell it is time consuming in the least to cast it again and again, so to make it unrealistic in battle.

(although I allow quick rituals in my campaign which involves a full round action a big bonus to the dc of the ritual to cast it.)

thanks for posting this by the way, I have been talking with some friends about what to do about the distinct lack of craft checks.
#3
athistaur
Oct 23, 2008 9:16:28 I concur on the lack of craft checks.
We use a houserule for Background skills, and some people took skills for crafting, but it's mostly powered by DM Fiat till now (and balanced against rituals/alchemy).

On the specific spell for watering crops... it sounds inable to do any good to the plants. 1 minute of water in a 5x5 area is not enough to water plants. You need much more water over a longer time. And most fields tend to be much bigger then 5x5, so you have to cast the spell over and over.

To try to make it useable for watering and prevent abuse at the same time:
Burst 10
Duration 6 hours
Special: Light rain, however whenever the rain is swallowed the swallowed water disappears. It's only able to sustain plants.
#4
Lineov
Oct 23, 2008 10:46:22 Yeah i realized how stupid a 5x5 area sounded when i reread it. But if the general mechanics of development are decent, I can always change what he actually creates later. Thanks for the replys.
#5
rowl
Oct 24, 2008 4:49:03 I don't know if I misread and missed it or not, but you also need to require an allotment of daily time needed to make that d20 crafting roll. The char should need to spend X hours of time researching and developing and building to make the item (or ritual) in question just to be able to make that roll - it shouldn't be automatic.

2-4 hours should be sufficient. Makes the time viable during an 8-9 hour extended rest at 2 hours, or 4 hours for an Eladrin.

You could make it a min of 2 hours a day working on it, and each additional set of 2 hours allows for an additional d20 roll (no modifier added) up to a max of 10 hours per 24 hour period. Just a thought off the top of my head for a time requirement.
#6
danmarlok
Oct 24, 2008 9:37:29 Given the averaging across that many rolls you could just say it's going to take x days? Your example of 400, with an average of 10.5 per roll it will take 40 days to do it. Across 40 rolls odds are you'll probably hit close to your averages anyway to rather than rolling 40 times just say it'll take 40 days. The more rolls possible the more likely the rolls become meaningless. I like rolling as much as the next person but rolling a d20 till I get 400 is just a lot of rolling.

Also crafting time lengths really aren't random in this fashion. Whether you're making a sword or building a house or growing crops, they're typically going to take the same amount of time or longer. Rarely will they take less time, there's really just no way for me to build a gaming table faster for instance than I can now. But there are several ways it could take longer. I might screw up a cut and have to recut. If I didn't allocate for screwups that's another wait for wood delivery. Moisture in the air can cause the stain and finish to take longer to dry. A tool might break. Etc. But typically they're always going to take roughly the same time to make.

So perhaps a bell curve might be faster Put the fastest possible time on the far left, the longest likely time on the far right and some average time assuming some screw ups or delays out of the crafters control in the middle.

Using 3d6 (or 4d6 or 3d10 or whatever generates a good bell for you), you pack the middle 1/3 numbers with the average times scaling slightly as you move away from the middle and the end points with faster and slower times.

Example:

Nature ritual = 400 = 40 days on average to use your numbers.

3d6 used for a possible 16 numbers in a bell curve.

3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18

10/11 = 40 days.
9/12 = 39 and 41 days
8/13 = 38 and 42 days
#7
Lineov
Oct 27, 2008 0:05:13 Makes sense, the way I've been working it out was this is something they do if they aren't out adventuring/battling. They "take a week off" to work on their project. (Read: I didn't do my homework and have a few battles ready for them so this week it's just RPing. I know... I'm a horrible DM but sometimes school just takes up too much time...) But I can see how the bell curve works out. I might take that up.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Lineov Oct 21, 2008 22:52:20	So as we all know (and some of us hate) there are no specific rules for crafting items in 4e. Previous versions had some sort of rule or craft check for making things (magical or non) and I'm aware of enchanting rules or alchemy rules etc. for working with other things, but I'd like to get your guys' take on what you use for craft rules. Let me know what you think, or give suggestions to help or what you use. Crafting: It doesn't really matter what your characters want to craft, but when they give you an idea of what they want to create, you come up with a target number that they have to reach by rolling a d20 (once per day, in game) and having them add their INT modifier to each roll (minimum 0). (As of right now I don't let characters that have an Int score of 9 or less craft.) After they have reached this number, have them roll a final d20 (adding no bonuses) this final roll represents the actual quality of the product they are creating. Example: I have an Eladrin Wizard who helps farmers, he is (in his spare time while not killing baddies left and right) trying to work his arcane power to create a spell to assist farmers with watering crops. I've made the target for this creation 400. (It's not inherently used to break mechanics of the game, but could if they were say stuck in a desert without water). At the end of each day he makes 1d20 and adds 5 for his INT mod. Then subtracts that from the 400 (or whatever is the current total from yesterday). When he reaches 0 he will immediately be allowed 1d20 to determine how well his spell works. If his final roll is decent I'm thinking on making it rain in a 5x5 foot area lightly for about 1 minute (10 rounds). Suggestions?
#2 the_jew Oct 22, 2008 23:56:00	Sounds like an interesting idea, but I think that you should work out a percentile chart for the final role, at that point where he lands on it (d20 chart works as well) it decides what the ritual he made can do and he learns that ritual the level and everything of it. it can be activated at that moment, or if he wants to activate it later he needs to find the components for the ritual. the logic behind this is simple what he is doing is basically craft ritual (if we are thinking in 3.0 terms for a moment) he is crafting a ritual to solve a certain problem it takes a lot of down time, but in the end creates a useful spell for the party and helpful for the Farmers. the reason for a ritual is simple, if he makes something that says I make it rain, well lets just say my friends and I have killed with create water before. If you make a normal ritual on the other hand, then you can make it so while it is possible to work the spell it is time consuming in the least to cast it again and again, so to make it unrealistic in battle. (although I allow quick rituals in my campaign which involves a full round action a big bonus to the dc of the ritual to cast it.) thanks for posting this by the way, I have been talking with some friends about what to do about the distinct lack of craft checks.
#3 athistaur Oct 23, 2008 9:16:28	I concur on the lack of craft checks. We use a houserule for Background skills, and some people took skills for crafting, but it's mostly powered by DM Fiat till now (and balanced against rituals/alchemy). On the specific spell for watering crops... it sounds inable to do any good to the plants. 1 minute of water in a 5x5 area is not enough to water plants. You need much more water over a longer time. And most fields tend to be much bigger then 5x5, so you have to cast the spell over and over. To try to make it useable for watering and prevent abuse at the same time: Burst 10 Duration 6 hours Special: Light rain, however whenever the rain is swallowed the swallowed water disappears. It's only able to sustain plants.
#4 Lineov Oct 23, 2008 10:46:22	Yeah i realized how stupid a 5x5 area sounded when i reread it. But if the general mechanics of development are decent, I can always change what he actually creates later. Thanks for the replys.
#5 rowl Oct 24, 2008 4:49:03	I don't know if I misread and missed it or not, but you also need to require an allotment of daily time needed to make that d20 crafting roll. The char should need to spend X hours of time researching and developing and building to make the item (or ritual) in question just to be able to make that roll - it shouldn't be automatic. 2-4 hours should be sufficient. Makes the time viable during an 8-9 hour extended rest at 2 hours, or 4 hours for an Eladrin. You could make it a min of 2 hours a day working on it, and each additional set of 2 hours allows for an additional d20 roll (no modifier added) up to a max of 10 hours per 24 hour period. Just a thought off the top of my head for a time requirement.
#6 danmarlok Oct 24, 2008 9:37:29	Given the averaging across that many rolls you could just say it's going to take x days? Your example of 400, with an average of 10.5 per roll it will take 40 days to do it. Across 40 rolls odds are you'll probably hit close to your averages anyway to rather than rolling 40 times just say it'll take 40 days. The more rolls possible the more likely the rolls become meaningless. I like rolling as much as the next person but rolling a d20 till I get 400 is just a lot of rolling. Also crafting time lengths really aren't random in this fashion. Whether you're making a sword or building a house or growing crops, they're typically going to take the same amount of time or longer. Rarely will they take less time, there's really just no way for me to build a gaming table faster for instance than I can now. But there are several ways it could take longer. I might screw up a cut and have to recut. If I didn't allocate for screwups that's another wait for wood delivery. Moisture in the air can cause the stain and finish to take longer to dry. A tool might break. Etc. But typically they're always going to take roughly the same time to make. So perhaps a bell curve might be faster Put the fastest possible time on the far left, the longest likely time on the far right and some average time assuming some screw ups or delays out of the crafters control in the middle. Using 3d6 (or 4d6 or 3d10 or whatever generates a good bell for you), you pack the middle 1/3 numbers with the average times scaling slightly as you move away from the middle and the end points with faster and slower times. Example: Nature ritual = 400 = 40 days on average to use your numbers. 3d6 used for a possible 16 numbers in a bell curve. 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 10/11 = 40 days. 9/12 = 39 and 41 days 8/13 = 38 and 42 days
#7 Lineov Oct 27, 2008 0:05:13	Makes sense, the way I've been working it out was this is something they do if they aren't out adventuring/battling. They "take a week off" to work on their project. (Read: I didn't do my homework and have a few battles ready for them so this week it's just RPing. I know... I'm a horrible DM but sometimes school just takes up too much time...) But I can see how the bell curve works out. I might take that up.