Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Delazar78 Sep 29, 2009 10:35:57	There's a LOT of melee weapons out there, but not so many ranged ones. What would it be a good system to create new ranged weapons for a fantasy setting? I'm not necessarily talking about firearms or steampunk stuff. For example, the Longbow is a military ranged 2-handed weapon, +2 prof bonus, d10 dmg, 20/40 range, load-free Now, based on this, would the following weapon be balanced: Bonebow (random lame name...) military ranged 2-handed weapon, +2 prof bonus, d12 dmg, 20/40 range, load minor basically what i did is giving more damage, but making a "slower" weapon. or maybe giving higher prof bonus, but less damage, or making a superior weapon, and giving it High-crit property, or brutal 1. Has anyone tried something like that?
#2 DanTracker Sep 29, 2009 10:52:06	There's a LOT of melee weapons out there, but not so many ranged ones. What would it be a good system to create new ranged weapons for a fantasy setting? I'm not necessarily talking about firearms or steampunk stuff. For example, the Longbow is a military ranged 2-handed weapon, +2 prof bonus, d10 dmg, 20/40 range, load-free Now, based on this, would the following weapon be balanced: Bonebow (random lame name...) military ranged 2-handed weapon, +2 prof bonus, d12 dmg, 20/40 range, load minor basically what i did is giving more damage, but making a "slower" weapon. or maybe giving higher prof bonus, but less damage, or making a superior weapon, and giving it High-crit property, or brutal 1. Has anyone tried something like that? i just try to throw in specialty ammo fo rhte player to use with their preferred range weapon. that can be more helpful. it actually can give them increased versatility over getting a new ranged weapon. my preference is for ammo that simply has a beneficial property, but even the ammo with a power is worth something in the long run. but, i have to admit i did create a lacross stick for my character, but i use the crossbow mechanics for that weapon. so really i just call it something different and it serves as a staff too. worked that out with the DM before starting.
#3 Delazar78 Sep 29, 2009 12:35:35	but, i have to admit i did create a lacross stick for my character, but i use the crossbow mechanics for that weapon. so really i just call it something different and it serves as a staff too. worked that out with the DM before starting. sure, you can use a Longsword and call it a Scimitar... but they DID make stats for the Scimitar. My idea would be to create more (and balanced) ranged weapon, just for variety's sake.
#4 mb_webguy Sep 29, 2009 13:09:04	It's generally easier, and more sensical, to re-fluff weapons than to come up with new stats.  This is espeically true when the new weaspon is fairly similar to an existing one.  We really don't need stats for a sabre, because we already have stats for a scimitar, and both are long, one-handed slashing swords.  Also, 4e is a fairly abstract system, and doesn't lend itself well to fine-grained distinguishing characteristics between similar weapons.  If we had guns in D&D, you probably wouldn't see different stats for a 9mm semi-automatic pistol and a .45 semi-automatic pistol, because even though there are some differences in real life, the 4e system just isn't capable of accurately modeling those relatively minor differences.  They'd both just be semi-automatic pistols.  So unless your "bonebow" is significantly different in some way than a longbow, just use the stats for a longbow. If, however, you have an idea for a weapon that doesn't easily fit the stats of an existing weapon, the 4e mechanics are fairly easy to manipulate.  Most of the weapons within a given category can be achieved through simple substitution.  A +1 in prof is generally equivalent to one step difference in damage die, as are the properties High Crit, Reach, Heavy Thrown, and Light Thrown.  For ranged weapons, Load Free is close to an equivalent +1 prof over Load Minor.  And each level -- simple, martial, and superior -- is essentially a +1 prof or equivalent better than the next.  So all you need to do is find the weapon that's closest to what you want, and start substituting or adding to it. The most important thing, though, is to start off with a clear concept for the weapon.  While I think your "bonebow" is reasonably well balanced, I really have no idea what it's supposed to be.  Is it just a burly longbow made of bone instead of wood?  I don't know.  All I see are stats, and stats are abstract.  Maybe they're balanced, but they still don't tell me about what the thing is.  What is the rationalization of the increased damage die and load time?  What makes a "bonebow" different from a longbow?
#5 Tectorman Sep 29, 2009 14:07:25	If the following link doesn't work (damn these new forum boards, anyway), go to the Rituals, Magic Items, and Equipment board, go back to the second or maybe third page, and try to find this thread: "System for making balanced custom weapons". ..."return oneroute(this,'thread','view','/75882/19615538/System_for_making_balanced_custom_weapons');">System for making balanced custom weapons Started By: upho  It has rules and guidelines for creating new weapons that are on par with existing weapons. The system is not perfect, but on the other hand, the existing weapons aren't completely in line with each other (but I think the list of under- or over-powered weapons is less than 20, which is very good).  Things like the Club or the Greatsword, for instance. ... Since his system for creating ranged weapons is based on what I did, I'll give you my view on how to handle custom-making ranged weapons. There's very little existing variation among ranged weapons, so it's hard to adjudicate adding something in (example: Brutal does not exist as a Ranged weapon property, so while we can determine how much it's worth on a Melee weapon, it would just be guesswork to slap it on a Ranged weapon). The only time we see a difference between Load Free and Load Minor is the regular Crossbow in comparison to the Repeating Crossbow.  The Repeating Crossbow has a lesser range, so it can be safely determined that bumping up a Load Free to a Load Minor is worth an increase in range. Except that this runs contrary to the other Ranged Projectile weapons in the game, so I hold that it's a mistake.  Which is why in my original system for ranged weapons (Upho's is his interpretation of mine), I had Load Free be worth the exact same thing as Load Minor. Which is odd, but I think it's in line with the expectations of the game.  For instance, you can completely get rid of Load Minor as an obstacle with the application of one feat (Swift Reload or somesuch in the PHB2).  Just like the auto-returning property of the two Boomerangs in the Eberron Player's Guide is worth 0 because every thrown weapon will be auto-returning as soon as it's made into a magic weapon. ... And finally, let me say this:  I wouldn't bother stating up custom-made Ranged Thrown weapons using the existing weapons as a guide.  Take a look at the proficiency bonuses, the damage, and the ranges of the Superior Ranged Thrown weapons (the Shuriken, the Bola, and the two Boomerangs).  Now, look at all the Melee weapons that can be thrown (in any category; Simple, Military, or Superior) and see if you can find better weapons. It's just not worth it to use a Boomerang (or other) if you can just custom-make a Melee weapon that'll do the same damage with the same accuracy at the same range, and also be able to be used in Melee. The only thing worthwhile about a Ranged Thrown weapon is the fact that it counts as Ranged and thus can accept an "Any Ranged" weapon Enchantment. (Ranged Projectile weapons are excused since they have much better ranges, count as Ranged weapons, and can use Ammunition (a la AV2).)
#6 Delazar78 Sep 30, 2009 2:45:12	lot of info in that thread thx for the link!