Creating a Fractured Timeline - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Creating a Fractured Timeline

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
slayn777
Jun 10, 2011 8:46:22 If my players rondo, arathelas, deedlit, quinn, or dawn are reading this... go away. Go away right now.

My players have just hit paragon and will be taking their first adventure into the feywild. I would like to represent the feywild as a place where time and space doesn't quite... work. At least as they expect it to.

Shortly after entering I intend to have to have them become fractured. They won't entirely realize what has happened and will continue on thinking everything is fine. But versions of themselves will also head off and go on other adventures. My main question arises on how to handle the actions of versions of their characters that they are not controlling.

Say, for instance, that they encounter a 100 year old man that is actually one of their characters but they don't realize it because of the age difference. Would it generally be considered fair game for the DM to roleplay a version of a player's character even though the DM taking control of PCs is usually taboo? We you as a player be annoyed that the DM controlled this other version of you?

Or should I let that specific player in on the secret and let them play it out? That has its own problems though of kind of ruining the mystery of what is happening.

---

The other half of this is that I would like to create a closed loop. I'm thinking the way this should happen is the players should play through to the end not realizing anything is amiss, but because of critical things that they miss (and could not have known about/could not get) they lose. But as they lay dying, they get wrenched back in... "time" to when the fracture happened. They play through it again but this time 1. things are diferent... because the feywild is screwed up... and also the goal is more to help their previous selves succeed rather than merely do the same thing again.

I've only been able to come up with a couple ideas on how to have some interaction between the two fractured versions of the players. For example, I've decided that the first time they enter the main city they will be in in the feywild, they will be welcomed has honored guests. Everyone knows their name, and bows before them. It seems their reputation preceeds them but they will have no idea why.

In the 2nd iteration, the city will not know who they are. Will treat them like scum. And a large part of the 2nd iteration will be in building up their reputation. The reputation they already 'had' during the 'first' iteration.

But I also am fishing for more ideas on ways to have interaction between the two iterations of the party. Ideally, this whole plot idea remains a mystery during the first iteration such that they are interacting with themselves but don't realize they are doing so. And in the 2nd iteration it all clicks into place as they find themselves helping themselves in situations that already happened... once.

In summary,
1. Is the DM roleplaying another version of a player's character a really bad idea? If it is a bad idea, is there another viable way to approach this that doesn't break the story?
2. Help in thinking of ways for two versions of the party to interact with each other without necessarily realizing they are interacting with each other.
3. Any examples of other adventures that have done something similar that I can take some pointers from?
#2
thetopquark
Jun 10, 2011 15:40:02 1. One easy thing you could do that is maybe a slightly different take that one you are doing would be to have the fractures embody different aspects of the characters' personalities. This would both eliminate the potential etiquette infraction of playing someone's character (since you would just be roleplaying a lazy/domineering/greedy whatever) part of that character made flesh. I think it would also open some interesting encounter opportunities.

2. My answer to one also kinda solves this, but also what you mention of using an older version of some characters may work. What if the city has customs that demand you wear heavily obscuring clothing so that accurately identifying people is difficult?

Overall this sounds like an awesome idea; good luck running it and you might consider letting us know how it pans out.
#3
Morgothra
Jun 11, 2011 17:37:38 Sounds like a cool idea. My advice for playing the players alternate choices for them is to give them a few important decisions to make (kill the guy or save him, rescue the wealthy merchant or the orphan boy, etc) and then have the alternate party be ones that made the other choice.

To really show the cracking timeline, you can have the players face enemies or receive rewards for things they haven't done yet, chose not to do in the past, or even things they chose not to do in the future. For example the party is attacked by a group of royal guards because they killed the Prince of Hagga, who they don't meet until the next session.

All the best
-Morgothra
#4
Castlemaster
Jun 11, 2011 23:17:01 First, this is a really cool idea. I think you are going in the right direction.

1. I don't think so. Without getting too philosphical, our experiences define who we are. The PC 100 years in future is NOT the PC, because the old man has additional experiences. This is even more true if the older version made different decisions. From the player's perspective, their future self is not them, but a possible version of them, so they likely wouldn't be too upset if you took a guess at what they did.

2. Hm, several ideas come to mind.

a. There is a paradox where the players can't exist at the same dimension at the same time. It's a bit trippy, but it's kind of like how clark kent and superman could never been seen together. Like the players kill a crime boss, they phase out, and their mirror selves pick up where they left off, then a few days later, the PC's return, unaware that several days have passed. You can seed it by letting the players know that time skips in the feywild (but if you do it right, they will just think that is feywild strangeness), or just as easily keep them in the dark. The players kill a crime boss, they leave the room, they phase out (unknown to them) because their mirror group was only 5 minutes behind them. The mirror group clears out the room and leaves, the PC's phase back in, to find that in 10 seconds the room littered with bodies has been cleared out. From the mirror PC's view, they followed a trail of bodies to a crime boss that SOMEONE killed. They know there is a bounty, so they figure they will just take the body back to town. Then when the PC's get back to town somebody else has already claimed the reward for their hard work.

b. Immediately, the PC's have to make a decision on a life-changing event. Though the PC's make one decision the opposite has disastrous consequences, greatly altering their mirror selves (who chose the disatrous option) physically and mentally. Like say due to bad luck the mirror PC's are subject to some feywild insanity for 1 year, irrevocably changing them.

c. There is a paradox where the PC's can't interact with their mirror selves (is an old idea, but it could still work) no matter what. Whenever they get close to interacting there is a paradox fracture, and one of the groups is teleported a considerable distance. Like the PC group and their mirror both go to the same cave, but the mirror group is transported somewhere unbeknownst to the PC's, but sometimes it goes the other way. The PC's might start to suspect that this "other group" contantly teleports them for no reason. If you really wanted to step it up a notch, you could say each time this happens there is another fracture and another PC mirror group is made. Eventually there are so many of them that fractures happen frequently, threatening to tear apart their reality.

3. I can't think of D&D adventures that do this, but there are several shows and movies that do this.

In Futurama, Fry meets his future self whose voice is different because of smoke poisoning

The movie Star Trek (new one) has Spock meet his old self

As far as your idea, I think if you just seed these strange events that the players shouldn't suspect them.
#5
slayn777
Jun 11, 2011 23:26:17 Thank you for all the ideas!

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 slayn777 Jun 10, 2011 8:46:22	If my players rondo, arathelas, deedlit, quinn, or dawn are reading this... go away. Go away right now. My players have just hit paragon and will be taking their first adventure into the feywild. I would like to represent the feywild as a place where time and space doesn't quite... work. At least as they expect it to. Shortly after entering I intend to have to have them become fractured. They won't entirely realize what has happened and will continue on thinking everything is fine. But versions of themselves will also head off and go on other adventures. My main question arises on how to handle the actions of versions of their characters that they are not controlling. Say, for instance, that they encounter a 100 year old man that is actually one of their characters but they don't realize it because of the age difference. Would it generally be considered fair game for the DM to roleplay a version of a player's character even though the DM taking control of PCs is usually taboo? We you as a player be annoyed that the DM controlled this other version of you? Or should I let that specific player in on the secret and let them play it out? That has its own problems though of kind of ruining the mystery of what is happening. --- The other half of this is that I would like to create a closed loop. I'm thinking the way this should happen is the players should play through to the end not realizing anything is amiss, but because of critical things that they miss (and could not have known about/could not get) they lose. But as they lay dying, they get wrenched back in... "time" to when the fracture happened. They play through it again but this time 1. things are diferent... because the feywild is screwed up... and also the goal is more to help their previous selves succeed rather than merely do the same thing again. I've only been able to come up with a couple ideas on how to have some interaction between the two fractured versions of the players. For example, I've decided that the first time they enter the main city they will be in in the feywild, they will be welcomed has honored guests. Everyone knows their name, and bows before them. It seems their reputation preceeds them but they will have no idea why. In the 2nd iteration, the city will not know who they are. Will treat them like scum. And a large part of the 2nd iteration will be in building up their reputation. The reputation they already 'had' during the 'first' iteration. But I also am fishing for more ideas on ways to have interaction between the two iterations of the party. Ideally, this whole plot idea remains a mystery during the first iteration such that they are interacting with themselves but don't realize they are doing so. And in the 2nd iteration it all clicks into place as they find themselves helping themselves in situations that already happened... once. In summary, 1. Is the DM roleplaying another version of a player's character a really bad idea? If it is a bad idea, is there another viable way to approach this that doesn't break the story? 2. Help in thinking of ways for two versions of the party to interact with each other without necessarily realizing they are interacting with each other. 3. Any examples of other adventures that have done something similar that I can take some pointers from?
#2 thetopquark Jun 10, 2011 15:40:02	1. One easy thing you could do that is maybe a slightly different take that one you are doing would be to have the fractures embody different aspects of the characters' personalities. This would both eliminate the potential etiquette infraction of playing someone's character (since you would just be roleplaying a lazy/domineering/greedy whatever) part of that character made flesh. I think it would also open some interesting encounter opportunities. 2. My answer to one also kinda solves this, but also what you mention of using an older version of some characters may work. What if the city has customs that demand you wear heavily obscuring clothing so that accurately identifying people is difficult? Overall this sounds like an awesome idea; good luck running it and you might consider letting us know how it pans out.
#3 Morgothra Jun 11, 2011 17:37:38	Sounds like a cool idea. My advice for playing the players alternate choices for them is to give them a few important decisions to make (kill the guy or save him, rescue the wealthy merchant or the orphan boy, etc) and then have the alternate party be ones that made the other choice. To really show the cracking timeline, you can have the players face enemies or receive rewards for things they haven't done yet, chose not to do in the past, or even things they chose not to do in the future. For example the party is attacked by a group of royal guards because they killed the Prince of Hagga, who they don't meet until the next session. All the best -Morgothra
#4 Castlemaster Jun 11, 2011 23:17:01	First, this is a really cool idea. I think you are going in the right direction. 1. I don't think so. Without getting too philosphical, our experiences define who we are. The PC 100 years in future is NOT the PC, because the old man has additional experiences. This is even more true if the older version made different decisions. From the player's perspective, their future self is not them, but a possible version of them, so they likely wouldn't be too upset if you took a guess at what they did. 2. Hm, several ideas come to mind. a. There is a paradox where the players can't exist at the same dimension at the same time. It's a bit trippy, but it's kind of like how clark kent and superman could never been seen together. Like the players kill a crime boss, they phase out, and their mirror selves pick up where they left off, then a few days later, the PC's return, unaware that several days have passed. You can seed it by letting the players know that time skips in the feywild (but if you do it right, they will just think that is feywild strangeness), or just as easily keep them in the dark. The players kill a crime boss, they leave the room, they phase out (unknown to them) because their mirror group was only 5 minutes behind them. The mirror group clears out the room and leaves, the PC's phase back in, to find that in 10 seconds the room littered with bodies has been cleared out. From the mirror PC's view, they followed a trail of bodies to a crime boss that SOMEONE killed. They know there is a bounty, so they figure they will just take the body back to town. Then when the PC's get back to town somebody else has already claimed the reward for their hard work. b. Immediately, the PC's have to make a decision on a life-changing event. Though the PC's make one decision the opposite has disastrous consequences, greatly altering their mirror selves (who chose the disatrous option) physically and mentally. Like say due to bad luck the mirror PC's are subject to some feywild insanity for 1 year, irrevocably changing them. c. There is a paradox where the PC's can't interact with their mirror selves (is an old idea, but it could still work) no matter what. Whenever they get close to interacting there is a paradox fracture, and one of the groups is teleported a considerable distance. Like the PC group and their mirror both go to the same cave, but the mirror group is transported somewhere unbeknownst to the PC's, but sometimes it goes the other way. The PC's might start to suspect that this "other group" contantly teleports them for no reason. If you really wanted to step it up a notch, you could say each time this happens there is another fracture and another PC mirror group is made. Eventually there are so many of them that fractures happen frequently, threatening to tear apart their reality. 3. I can't think of D&D adventures that do this, but there are several shows and movies that do this. In Futurama, Fry meets his future self whose voice is different because of smoke poisoning The movie Star Trek (new one) has Spock meet his old self As far as your idea, I think if you just seed these strange events that the players shouldn't suspect them.
#5 slayn777 Jun 11, 2011 23:26:17	Thank you for all the ideas!