Creating New Powers... is there a table or rule of balance? - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Creating New Powers... is there a table or rule of balance?

Post/Author/DateTime Post
#1
Sckazinski
Mar 10, 2011 8:37:42 Hello, good people of the boards!

One friend and I are trying to develop a Excel spreadsheet to help developing new powers...
but other friend said that one of these tabels already exists... anyone knows of it?

The base idea was to give point values to various aspects of the powers (damage, conditions, range, area...), and creating new powers that are balanced with the others... anyone knows something about this, or had such an idea before?

Thanks in advance!
#2
pluisjen
Mar 10, 2011 8:47:33 No such table exists as far as I know... power balance depends for great parts not just on damage/conditions/range, but also on class and role and even a bit of powersource, so there's no hard and fast rules for it.

Generally people are advised to look at existing powers and modify them.
#3
slobo777a
Mar 10, 2011 11:26:18 It cannot be done for powers in general, due to class differences. Within a particular class, and often across different classes with the same role, you can almost smell the existence of these guidelines though . . . sorry I do not know whether they exist somewhere in a public document.
#4
Sckazinski
Mar 10, 2011 11:34:10 We almost got it... we are imputing at-wills from the PH1, and we got balance in various... almost all at-will got between 9 and 12 points... but there are some things that don't quite fit yet.

The idea was something akin to:
Each point of damage a power can give in average: 1pt.
(so, a 1d6 power is about 3,5) (we attribute 1W=1d10, so it's 5,5).

and stuff like this. Maybe with discounts for each role... kinda "striker pays only 75% of "pure damage" powers, and "controlers pay only 75% of area atacks".
Other guidelines: Daily power cost normal, encounter powers cost triple, at-will powers cost 6 or 9 times the cost.

With something like this, we could have "at X level, get x points, and create a power with them".

#5
LightWarden
Mar 10, 2011 11:41:30 See this? This is the Character Optimization forums. These are the handbooks for various classes. When designing new content, I find it helpful to go look at handbooks and figure out what sort of things are liked and useful in that general category (if you're designing a class, look at other classes in the same category like "melee striker", if you're designing new powers for a class, look at the other useful powers for that class and other classes in the same general niche). The Compendium is invaluable for cross-referencing. You won't get anywhere interesting by just copying, but by studying, you can get an idea for how the various classes function in their various roles (and various secondary roles), and understand how the various ideas for how the classes perform really well, and what sort of things aren't that useful. It's a lot of work, but I find it to be very helpful to get a feel for how the system already works and then figure out what new areas you can expand on. Mechanics are like a language, you want to try to be as fluent as possible so you can say what you want to say.

At least, that's how I would go about it. If you want to get beyond simply swiping and reskinning powers, try learning the system to figure out how it ticks.
#6
dieffenbachj
Mar 10, 2011 11:45:05 Eyeball it. If you create a power, look at the other powers and ask "Would I rather take this custom power, or these other powers?" If the answer is the custom power, it may be OP. Or the others may be UP.
#7
Sckazinski
Mar 10, 2011 11:54:17
Eyeball it. If you create a power, look at the other powers and ask "Would I rather take this custom power, or these other powers?" If the answer is the custom power, it may be OP. Or the others may be UP.

Yeah, that could work, but... let's say I have a mellee striker... would i take the power I created, or Twin Strike, for instance? Almost always would be twin strike. it's kinda hard to do the guidelines...

what I was proposing was a system of guidelines to create powers... mathematicaly balanced. Anyone think that's possible?
#8
pluisjen
Mar 10, 2011 11:58:14 Mathematical guidelines, sure. But you still have to check each power manually at the end or people will find ways to abuse it.
#9
Sckazinski
Mar 10, 2011 12:00:18
Mathematical guidelines, sure. But you still have to check each power manually at the end or people will find ways to abuse it.

Yeah, of course... It would be a base... hehe, even the official ones are sometimes abused... :P

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 Sckazinski Mar 10, 2011 8:37:42	Hello, good people of the boards! One friend and I are trying to develop a Excel spreadsheet to help developing new powers... but other friend said that one of these tabels already exists... anyone knows of it? The base idea was to give point values to various aspects of the powers (damage, conditions, range, area...), and creating new powers that are balanced with the others... anyone knows something about this, or had such an idea before? Thanks in advance!
#2 pluisjen Mar 10, 2011 8:47:33	No such table exists as far as I know... power balance depends for great parts not just on damage/conditions/range, but also on class and role and even a bit of powersource, so there's no hard and fast rules for it. Generally people are advised to look at existing powers and modify them.
#3 slobo777a Mar 10, 2011 11:26:18	It cannot be done for powers in general, due to class differences. Within a particular class, and often across different classes with the same role, you can almost smell the existence of these guidelines though . . . sorry I do not know whether they exist somewhere in a public document.
#4 Sckazinski Mar 10, 2011 11:34:10	We almost got it... we are imputing at-wills from the PH1, and we got balance in various... almost all at-will got between 9 and 12 points... but there are some things that don't quite fit yet. The idea was something akin to: Each point of damage a power can give in average: 1pt. (so, a 1d6 power is about 3,5) (we attribute 1W=1d10, so it's 5,5). and stuff like this. Maybe with discounts for each role... kinda "striker pays only 75% of "pure damage" powers, and "controlers pay only 75% of area atacks". Other guidelines: Daily power cost normal, encounter powers cost triple, at-will powers cost 6 or 9 times the cost. With something like this, we could have "at X level, get x points, and create a power with them".
#5 LightWarden Mar 10, 2011 11:41:30	See this? This is the Character Optimization forums. These are the handbooks for various classes. When designing new content, I find it helpful to go look at handbooks and figure out what sort of things are liked and useful in that general category (if you're designing a class, look at other classes in the same category like "melee striker", if you're designing new powers for a class, look at the other useful powers for that class and other classes in the same general niche). The Compendium is invaluable for cross-referencing. You won't get anywhere interesting by just copying, but by studying, you can get an idea for how the various classes function in their various roles (and various secondary roles), and understand how the various ideas for how the classes perform really well, and what sort of things aren't that useful. It's a lot of work, but I find it to be very helpful to get a feel for how the system already works and then figure out what new areas you can expand on. Mechanics are like a language, you want to try to be as fluent as possible so you can say what you want to say. At least, that's how I would go about it. If you want to get beyond simply swiping and reskinning powers, try learning the system to figure out how it ticks.
#6 dieffenbachj Mar 10, 2011 11:45:05	Eyeball it. If you create a power, look at the other powers and ask "Would I rather take this custom power, or these other powers?" If the answer is the custom power, it may be OP. Or the others may be UP.
#7 Sckazinski Mar 10, 2011 11:54:17	Eyeball it. If you create a power, look at the other powers and ask "Would I rather take this custom power, or these other powers?" If the answer is the custom power, it may be OP. Or the others may be UP. Yeah, that could work, but... let's say I have a mellee striker... would i take the power I created, or Twin Strike, for instance? Almost always would be twin strike. it's kinda hard to do the guidelines... what I was proposing was a system of guidelines to create powers... mathematicaly balanced. Anyone think that's possible?
#8 pluisjen Mar 10, 2011 11:58:14	Mathematical guidelines, sure. But you still have to check each power manually at the end or people will find ways to abuse it.
#9 Sckazinski Mar 10, 2011 12:00:18	Mathematical guidelines, sure. But you still have to check each power manually at the end or people will find ways to abuse it. Yeah, of course... It would be a base... hehe, even the official ones are sometimes abused... :P