Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 bendbuddy Dec 26, 2008 23:07:38	Hi All, Anyone using some fun critical hit or miss tables for their 4E games? If so, please provide details or links to your web page/electronic file. I love the decks by Paizo but they are a little 3.5 heavy-ish in stats. Also, does anyone consider critical hit tables I’m pondering whether even doing anything on a critical hit as that might be sacrilege or even against the spirit of the new rules. Thanks in advance for your feedback, Ben Chandler, AZ "Say hey" on Twitter
#2 calronmoonflower Dec 26, 2008 23:10:27	The houserules section in the Dungeon Master has a example of a critical miss. Also this should be in the houserules board.
#3 salla Dec 26, 2008 23:14:31	Critical Hits do max damage, a roll of natural 1 is an automatic miss. That's the balanced version.
#4 bendbuddy Dec 26, 2008 23:15:21	Hello calronmoonflower , My apologies but I do not see specifically where in the forums you're referring to (I checked the "What's the DM to Do forum)? Can I have a specific link or book page number on your last answer? === Hi Salla: Thanks for the balanced answer. I kinda figured but honestly, that's kind of the [yawn] answer. Critical hits and misses were so much fun in 3.5 that we miss them a bit in the new edition. Thank you, Ben
#5 calronmoonflower Dec 26, 2008 23:18:24	My apologies but I do not see specifically where in the forums you're referring to (I checked the "What's the DM to Do forum)? http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=872 Can I have a specific link or book page number on your last answer? Dungeon Master's Guide page 189 under "Fumble". Thank you You're welcome.
#6 onceuponatime Dec 27, 2008 1:35:09	Hi All, Anyone using some fun critical hit or miss tables for their 4E games? If so, please provide details or links to your web page/electronic file. I love the decks by Paizo but they are a little 3.5 heavy-ish in stats. Also, does anyone consider critical hit tables I’m pondering whether even doing anything on a critical hit as that might be sacrilege or even against the spirit of the new rules. I have those also and have been thinking about converting them to 4e...
#7 anubis_reynard Dec 27, 2008 1:38:07	the main "sacrilige" of crit tables is that it adds another die roll to slow down combat. In my game, Crit is max damage, Fumble grants CA.
#8 strand0 Dec 28, 2008 17:00:43	the main "sacrilige" of crit tables is that it adds another die roll to slow down combat. In my game, Crit is max damage, Fumble grants CA. "FUN"
#9 calronmoonflower Dec 28, 2008 17:27:03	"FUN" One odd thing I've seen is a critical fumble chart that simply is a list of ways that you could miss. It's in someones Sig around here.
#10 mycroftb Jan 04, 2009 0:31:06	Hi Salla: Thanks for the balanced answer. I kinda figured but honestly, that's kind of the [yawn] answer. Critical hits and misses were so much fun in 3.5 that we miss them a bit in the new edition. If you're talking about fumbles, they never existed in 3e at all, either. They're just house rules that get carried over and used so often that people think they're part of the core. I'm not sure, but I think I heard they've never been an official rule in any edition at all.
#11 poseph Jan 10, 2009 11:42:58	http://www.dndadventure.com/ftp/critical_hit_table_2e.zip Clicking on this link will allow you to view the critical hit and fumble tables that I use for my 4e games. Yes,they were made for 2e but with a few simple adjustments, it works perfectly. -Any time it says just 1/4 move, just replace it with slowed. Usually there is little to no difference anyways. -A homebrew helmet rule, that I honestly haven't had a real chance to playtest. Light Helmet (can be used with leather or heavier armor) - +1 AC, -2 Perception Heavy Helmet (can be used with chain or heavier armor) - +2 AC, -4 Perception (the +2 to AC may be a lot, and if it turns out to be too much, just make all helmets light.) --- This houserule was made to supplement the crit chart entries that say helm in parentheses. -On the fumble table, where it says stunned for 1d4 rounds, change the wording to dazed for 1d4 rounds. We played without changing for one session, and one player had to sit out for 15 minutes after rolling a 3 on that d4. Same goes for the "knocked out for 1d4 rounds." These are even worse. -When "armor breaks", just have the player or monster take -2 to AC until he gets it fixed. -Give your players access to either Warforged (or whatever) prosthetic body parts or a Regeneration ritual. While a real dis-arming seems cool. Having to go through dozens of encounters or even having to retire a character because of a loss of limb is no fun for anyone. -Minions don't roll on the crit chart or fumble chart a minion who rolls a natural 20 does 2x their normal damage, and a minion who roles a natural 1 kills himself. This rule was put into effect after our ranger was decapitated by a nameless kobold minion, who was subsequently named and put into warchants and battle songs. (One of the funniest kills in our fourth edition career.) Hope you like the chart, although it was not mine. We wouldn't think of playing without it.
#12 Johnny_Vegas Jan 19, 2009 23:12:32	http://www.dndadventure.com/ftp/critical_hit_table_2e.zip Hope you like the chart, although it was not mine. We wouldn't think of playing without it. I looked at the example in that document and it really looks like it would bring combat to a crawl. You realize in 3.5 that some chars do a ton of damage with one attack (sorceror's spell) and others do a lot of damage via many attacks (rapid shotting ranger), meaning the ranger is going to be fumbling like 3 times as much as the sorceror. This is the problem I had when I said a natural 1 was a fumble that caused you to drop your sword or bow, etc.. The PC's with many attacks were always dropping their sword.
#13 1shmael Jan 21, 2009 1:38:49	Anyone using some fun critical hit or miss tables for their 4E games? If so, please provide details or links to your web page/electronic file. I love the decks by Paizo but they are a little 3.5 heavy-ish in stats. Please have a look at this thread. http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1137258 I would love to have your feedback.
#14 1shmael Jan 21, 2009 1:52:55	If you're talking about fumbles, they never existed in 3e at all, either. They're just house rules that get carried over and used so often that people think they're part of the core. I'm not sure, but I think I heard they've never been an official rule in any edition at all. TSR published official AD&D Critical Hit tables in the Player's Option rule book series. I still use them (though I'm planning now to make my own, once I've completed the 4E Fumble tables to my satisfaction)
#15 1shmael Jan 21, 2009 1:57:44	-A homebrew helmet rule, that I honestly haven't had a real chance to playtest. Light Helmet (can be used with leather or heavier armor) - +1 AC, -2 Perception Heavy Helmet (can be used with chain or heavier armor) - +2 AC, -4 Perception That is clever!!!
#16 Daybreaker Jan 21, 2009 3:25:03	Tables can be fun, but dealing with them for 5% of combat (if you only use critical hit tables) or even 10% of combat (if you use both critical hit and fumble tables) slows things down too much. One of the nice things about 4e is that some features of critical hits are included in the powers. Now, when a rogue wants to hamstring somebody, there are powers that will give you that effect (at least until your target makes a saving throw) and it's just a matter of filling in the flavor text, if you will. For fumbles, my group uses a NERPS die. I don't know why it's called a NERPS die, someone else started this tradition. But whenever you roll a 1, you roll the ugliest 12-sider on the table (we used to have a particularly hideous yellow die that was the official NERPS die but we lost it). We're still debating what the results should be for 4e (we're a slow group when it comes to decision-making), but it'll probably be something like this: 1: Lose your next turn. 2: Do 10 push-ups. 3: Drop the weapon you made the attack with. 4: Another minion appears out of nowhere and attacks you. 5: Something bad happens to Ian McLaren (old character). 6: Spoonful of hot sauce. 7: The party is suddenly attacked by a dragon. 8: Fall prone. Your character, not you. 9: Fall prone. You, not your character. 10: Your PC falls in love with the most inconvenient character available. 11: The player to your left gets to punch you in the shoulder. 12: Click ... click ... click ... a Reaver has arrived to dispatch you. Better run.
#17 kkdragonlord Jan 22, 2009 0:05:27	I got one. I think its pretty balanced since its based on a bell curve roll with 2d10. Also, when you consider that rolling a 20 isn't something that happens all the time it makes it worth it to roll something to make that crit stand out. As it is now with just full damage (until magic weapons come along at least) it just feels weak. I even made a card with it to make it easily accessible. either way here it is: Massive Crits If the character is bloodied after a critical hit is resolved, roll 2d10 to see the additional effect. Results 2 *Break Ring 3 *Break Weapon or Implement 4 *Break Shield/Off-Hand/Bracer slot item 5 *Break Head slot item 6 *Break Neck slot item 7 *Break Hand slot item 8 *Break Feet slot item 9 *Break Waist slot item 10 Knocked down [Prone] 11 Bleeding: damage Ongoing 3 (save ends) 12 Muscle strain: -2AC/ -2 Attack (save ends) 13 [Dazed] (save ends) 14 [Stunned] (save ends) 15 Chronic Pain: Weakened (save ends) 16 [Blind] (save ends) 17 Dislocate: -2ac/-2attack (until short rest) 18 Knock-Out: Unconscious (save ends) 19 Break or Disability: ***roll d20 to determine which body part. 20 Dismemberment: ***roll d20 to determine which body part. * Magical items may roll a save to avoid breakage with +1 every 4 levels of the item. In case there isnt an item equipped re-roll 2d10. ** To regain the use of the body part a Skill Challenge (Complexity 12) of either Endurance or Heal is required. Only one roll is allowed for every extended rest. *** d20 Roll: [1-4 Fingers], [5-6 Ears], [7-8 Thumbs], [9 Nose], [10-11 Hands], [12-13 Forearms], [14-15 feet], [16-17 Forelegs],[18-19 Olhos], [20 Head]. Each number represents a single body part, the character also suffers ongoing damage equal to a fifth of the result (save ends). In case the character doesn't have that body part he will suffer only the corresponding ongoing damage. OBS: Just to point out that i made the item table by increasing the odds from the cheapest to most expensive. And did likewise with the conditions. The odds to behead a character/monster is 0.000025% or 40.000 to 1.
#18 redclock_the_untimely Jan 22, 2009 3:12:13	I can't say I've made up any critical hit tables, but as for critical miss tables, I currently have three of them and need to make 5 more to complete the set. Currently I have for PC rolls: melee, ranged and magic (single target). I need to make one for area attacks and a set for monsters. I don't think they should be used in every battle, but occasionally for fun... Anyway, here is my melee table. Show Table One: Melee Fumbles 1-10 As you draw your weapon back and prepare to swing, you sneeze loudly and loose your grip. Either spend a minor action now to correct your grip or take a -1 to opportunity attacks until the beginning of your next turn. 11-20 You overextend as you swing, missing your target and hearing a horrible tearing noise as the seat of your pants rip. You better get them sewn up soon or people will laugh at you. 21-30 One of your shoes came untied. Take a -1 to movement speed and risk tripping. You can retie it with a move action that provokes. If moving when untied, roll a d4, 1-3 you are fine and on a four make a saving throw or go prone. 31-40 Your opponent stumbles back one square while laughing at your ineptitude. Unfortunately this provokes opportunity attacks from any other adjacent allies. 41-50 You thrust well, but your opponent parries. Your weapons clash hard and the vibration causes your pinky to cramp momentarily, better not mention this to the others or you won’t hear the end of it. 51-60 You suddenly realize you shouldn’t have drunk so much coffee at breakfast. If this battle doesn’t end in twenty rounds you’ll pee your pants. If that happens, you’ll never live it down. 61-70 Your swing hits true, unfortunately all you hit was the wall/floor. Better luck next time. 71-80 Your opponent uses an immediate action to taunt you. Make a save or take one point of damage to your ego. A successful save allows you to make a witty comeback. 81-90 You put a lot of extra effort into your swing, but miss horribly causing you to spin in a circle and become slightly dizzy. Lose a minor action and avoid the Tilt-a-Whirl. 91-99 Meh, so you missed, big whoop. 100 Your weapon suddenly turns into a housecat, the fact that you are swinging it around by its hind legs does not make it happy. If you are not wearing armor take one point of damage as its claws sink into your arm. The battle halts as a stunned audience watches you try to shake off the angry housecat that has now latched on to you. After the longest and fiercest thirty seconds of your life the cat turns back into your weapon and falls to the ground. You retrieve it sheepishly and the battle resumes.