Anyways, I was hoping to get some input on my 4e campaigns house rules!:
Character Creation:
-Tieflings may exchange their +2 to intelligence for a +2 to dexterity at character creation
-Half-elves may exchange their +2 to constitution for a +2 to dexterity at character creation
-Half-elves get Skill Training or Jack of All Trades as a racial bonus feat at first level.
-Opposed to what the PHB Errata says, Half-elves may choose any 1st level at-will power for their Dilettante racial ability (such as a Wizard's cantrip or Paladin's Lay on Hands).
-Small creatures (including PCs such as halflings) receive a +2 bonus to stealth checks.
-Halflings get a +1 to all defenses against attacks with the fear keyword (in addition to "Bold").
-All races in the back of the Monster Manual 1 are acceptable as PC choices.
Multiclassing:
-Class-Specific Multiclass Feats: In addition to the benefits listed, if the class you multiclass into is proficient with better armor, shields, or weapons than your current class, you can gain two feats for the cost of one when using them to learn proficiency with those armors, shields, or weapons. You must still meet the prerequisites for those feats. For example, a wizard who takes the Soldier of Faith feat could learn Armory Proficiency (Leather) and Weapon Proficiency (Longsword) for the cost of one feat instead of two.
-Power Swap Feats: When you take your second power swap feat, you gain training in one extra class skill from the class that you multiclassed in to.
-Paragon Multiclassing: If you choose advanced multiclassing instead of a paragon path at 11th level, you gain the choice of an additional benefit besides the ones listed in the PHB. This benefit is decided by the DM on a class-by-class basis, but here are two examples that should give you a good idea:
Someone multiclassing into Paladin could learn to increase their use of Divine Challenge to twice per encounter (thrice at level 16), or they could learn Lay on Hands as an encounter power.
Someone multiclassing into Warlord could improve their Inspiring Word power to an encounter power usable (charisma modifier) times per day, or they could learn one Commanding Presence ability, which could be applied to the remainder of one encounter per day as a free action.
Equipment:
-Change the wording of the off-hand weapon property description from "...while holding a weapon in your main hand..." to "...while attacking with a weapon in your main hand..."
-New superior weapon: Saber : same stats as scimitar, but light blade group instead.
The "Retcon" Rule: When new feats and powers first become available, they can replace known feats or powers for "free" (no retraining required). Also, options usually only available at character creation can be applied when introduced into an ongoing campaign. (Such as the above tiefling and half-elf options.)
NOTE Concerning the multiclass rules:
From my groups experiences with multiclassing thus far, I'm sorry, but 90% of the time multiclassing is a shot in the foot. Yeah, the class-specific feats are on the stronger side of the feat spectrum, but if you want to paragon multiclass, you are not getting what you are paying for. Let's break it down: If you want to "fully" multiclass, by tenth level you will have given up four feats and three powers to gain skill training, three and a half powers from a different class, and access to some extra paragon paths that usually only half work for multiclassers. That might be worth it if there was more difference between the powers, but the fact is there is quite a bit of sameness across the class powers. The only one of those three and half powers that is usually worth it is the utility power (the exception are those that multiclass from a class lacking AoEs into something like wizard, so basically only about 15% of full heroic tier multiclassing seems worth it with RAW). On top of those feats, the multiclassing character will probably have to spend his remaining two feats making those new abilities work (such as skill training (particularly if you multiclass into rogue), or armor or weapon proficiency (if you multiclass from something like wizard to fighter). All I did at the heroic tier was make it a bit easier to learn weapons and armor and skills as appropriate to the class you are multiclassing into, which frees up a couple feats for multiclassers and makes the multiclass feat chain more palatable.
At paragon level, once again it just doesn't seem like a fair trade. You are giving up three paragon powers, an at-will power, and three paragon features to learn an at will power and three powers of a lower level. A small boost in the class feature department makes this a bit more reasonable (though I still think the character is better off taking a paragon path from his main class.)
One rule I've been thinking about though, and that I'd like the community to feedback on:
Lost in Crowd: Change requirement of "Halfling" to "Small-sized" so that gnomes, kobolds, goblins and similar may take advantage of their small size (really, even if you give them +2 stealth, being small is still largely a disadvantage).
Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but it seemed the most appropriate one I could find on the 4e forums.
Try here:
http://forums.gleemax.com/forumdisplay.php?f=872
Multiclassing seems a little powerful.
I'm not sure I'd include MM race templates as PCs.
Otherwise, these are pretty solid.
Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but it seemed the most appropriate one I could find on the 4e forums.
Anyways, I was hoping to get some input on my 4e campaigns house rules!:
Character Creation:
-Tieflings may exchange their +2 to intelligence for a +2 to dexterity at character creation
-Half-elves may exchange their +2 to constitution for a +2 to dexterity at character creation
-Half-elves get Skill Training or Jack of All Trades as a racial bonus feat at first level.
-Opposed to what the PHB Errata says, Half-elves may choose any 1st level at-will power for their Dilettante racial ability (such as a Wizard's cantrip or Paladin's Lay on Hands).
-Small creatures (including PCs such as halflings) receive a +2 bonus to stealth checks.
-Halflings get a +1 to all defenses against attacks with the fear keyword (in addition to "Bold").
-All races in the back of the Monster Manual 1 are acceptable as PC choices.
In general, you've made half-elves too good. Dilettante is by far one of the best racial abilities; you've expanded it, and given them a decent feat on top of it. If you extend Dilettante to class features that mimic powers, you risk intruding on the design space occupied by the multiclass feats. Likewise, if you give half-elves Skill Training, you start to push out humans and eladrin. I do like giving them Jack of Trades, though: it's unique enough not to step on anyone's toes, and it's a decent feat that will likely get overshadowed by more combat-oriented stuff. I also like giving them the Dex option.
I'm inclined to say that Tieflings should have the option of picking up Con for Int, instead--but that's because currently, they make subpar infernal-pact warlocks.
As far as halflings go, I'd definitely drop the +1 to defenses vs. fear. It doesn't mesh with the only other mechanic like it (the dwarf's +5 save vs. poison), and it's conceptually not really necessary. As written in the PHB, halflings are still just as susceptible to fear as normal, but they have a easier time recovering from it.
Small creatures getting a +2 bonus to Stealth works nicely for the sort of roles they occupy. Halflings, gnomes, kobolds, goblins, quicklings... works nicely for everyone. My only concern is that it's not symmetric across the sizes: Tiny creatures should have a larger bonus, Large creatures should have a -2 penalty, etc. Instead of giving it to all small creatures, you might give halfling players the option of a +2 to Stealth instead of their +2 to Acrobatics.
Multiclassing:
-Class-Specific Multiclass Feats: In addition to the benefits listed, if the class you multiclass into is proficient with better armor, shields, or weapons than your current class, you can gain two feats for the cost of one when using them to learn proficiency with those armors, shields, or weapons. You must still meet the prerequisites for those feats. For example, a wizard who takes the Soldier of Faith feat could learn Armory Proficiency (Leather) and Weapon Proficiency (Longsword) for the cost of one feat instead of two.
-Power Swap Feats: When you take your second power swap feat, you gain training in one extra class skill from the class that you multiclassed in to.
-Paragon Multiclassing: If you choose advanced multiclassing instead of a paragon path at 11th level, you gain the choice of an additional benefit besides the ones listed in the PHB. This benefit is decided by the DM on a class-by-class basis, but here are two examples that should give you a good idea:
Someone multiclassing into Paladin could learn to increase their use of Divine Challenge to twice per encounter (thrice at level 16), or they could learn Lay on Hands as an encounter power.
Someone multiclassing into Warlord could improve their Inspiring Word power to an encounter power usable (charisma modifier) times per day, or they could learn one Commanding Presence ability, which could be applied to the remainder of one encounter per day as a free action.
Honestly... I'd drop this whole section, except for the Paragon Multiclassing benefit. Every multiclassing feat has a "once-per" ability, and making that "twice per" for a Paragon-tier character makes sense.
IMO, multiclassing is a lot better than most people on the boards seem to realize. In any case, I'd encourage you to experiment with the existing rules a bit more before extending them--the multiclassing rules changed a lot during development, which suggests they were tough to balance. Changing them is going to a tricky business, and one that runs the risk of introducing serious problems into your game.
Equipment:
-Change the wording of the off-hand weapon property description from "...while holding a weapon in your main hand..." to "...while attacking with a weapon in your main hand..."
Not sure what you mean here. The current wording makes it explicit that you can't attack with two weapons at once unless you have a power that says so. Do you intend to let someone holding two weapons attack with both on the same round?
-New superior weapon: Saber : same stats as scimitar, but light blade group instead.
Mechanically fine, but I don't like your flavor text.
A saber was designed for use while mounted, so it's heavier than most similar-sized swords; you want to be able to use it to break a polearm (or, in a pinch, any sort of arm). It's heavier than a "longsword" for the same reason a meat cleaver is heavier than a filet knife. Fencing sabers are very different, but as far as fencing swords go they're still the heaviest.So, let your PCs pay a feat to have the high-crit property on their light blade, but call it something else.
The "Retcon" Rule: When new feats and powers first become available, they can replace known feats or powers for "free" (no retraining required). Also, options usually only available at character creation can be applied when introduced into an ongoing campaign. (Such as the above tiefling and half-elf options.)
Sounds fine to me.
This came out longer than I'd intended, but hopefully it's helpful. Happy gaming!
In general, you've made half-elves too good. Dilettante is by far one of the best racial abilities; you've expanded it, and given them a decent feat on top of it.
...Did you really just say that Dilettante is by far the best racial ability? Really? REALLY? I mean, thats what I thought about it at first, but our experience with it so far has shown it to be more of a dash of flavor than anything else. I mean, you are learning a power that was designed to be an at-will, but instead you can use it only once per encounter. It is actually rather weak. And don't give me that crud about how it allows your defender to learn an AoE. If that's what you want, be a dragonborn, you'll get way more bang for that buck. I think Dilettante is a REALLY cool idea which just doesn't go far enough (like a lot of things in the 4e core, so far. Consequently, that's also why I made more racial feats for every PHB race - you can check some out by using the link in my sig).
If you extend Dilettante to class features that mimic powers, you risk intruding on the design space occupied by the multiclass feats.
Half-elves have dilettante to show that every half elf dabbles. They are all multiclassers, to at least a very small degree, even without a multiclass feat. I'm sorry, but I don't think that a half-elf learning prestidigitation or lay on hands as an encounter power intrudes on "design space" any more than them learning eldritch blast. Just not buying it. I think the only reason they made the attack power limitation later on is that powers like turn undead might cause confusion with a DM that needs a word-for-word explanation for how to adapt any/everything.
Likewise, if you give half-elves Skill Training, you start to push out humans and eladrin. I do like giving them Jack of Trades, though: it's unique enough not to step on anyone's toes, and it's a decent feat that will likely get overshadowed by more combat-oriented stuff. I also like giving them the Dex option.
I forgot to add an addendum to half-elves skill training, in that it is only supposed to allow them to learn a skill that ISN'T on their class list (an extension of the dilettante thing). I agree with the other two things, though.
I'm inclined to say that Tieflings should have the option of picking up Con for Int, instead--but that's because currently, they make subpar infernal-pact warlocks.
Hmmm, didn't realize that, I'll take a look.
As far as halflings go, I'd definitely drop the +1 to defenses vs. fear. It doesn't mesh with the only other mechanic like it (the dwarf's +5 save vs. poison), and it's conceptually not really necessary. As written in the PHB, halflings are still just as susceptible to fear as normal, but they have a easier time recovering from it.
Yeah, but the vast majority of fear effects don't allow a save. I figured a +1 defense bonus as well would make their boldness more pertinent. Its not a huge difference, but I hate racial abilities that feel like they don't do anything, and I hate always telling the halfling player "sorry, but this is yet another fear effect that your boldness doesn't help you out with. Don't worry, one of these days it might apply!"
Small creatures getting a +2 bonus to Stealth works nicely for the sort of roles they occupy. Halflings, gnomes, kobolds, goblins, quicklings... works nicely for everyone. My only concern is that it's not symmetric across the sizes: Tiny creatures should have a larger bonus, Large creatures should have a -2 penalty, etc. Instead of giving it to all small creatures, you might give halfling players the option of a +2 to Stealth instead of their +2 to Acrobatics.
I intend to give a -2 to huge and larger creatures as well. Maybe more.
Honestly... I'd drop this whole section, except for the Paragon Multiclassing benefit. Every multiclassing feat has a "once-per" ability, and making that "twice per" for a Paragon-tier character makes sense.
IMO, multiclassing is a lot better than most people on the boards seem to realize. In any case, I'd encourage you to experiment with the existing rules a bit more before extending them--the multiclassing rules changed a lot during development, which suggests they were tough to balance. Changing them is going to a tricky business, and one that runs the risk of introducing serious problems into your game.
(Note: this is also my reply to the other criticisms on the multiclass house rules.) From my groups experiences with multiclassing thus far, I'm sorry, but 90% of the time multiclassing is a shot in the foot. Yeah, the class-specific feats are on the stronger side of the feat spectrum, but if you want to paragon multiclass, you are not getting what you are paying for. Let's break it down: If you want to "fully" multiclass, by tenth level you will have given up four feats and three powers to gain skill training, three and a half powers from a different class, and access to some extra paragon paths that usually only half work for multiclassers. That might be worth it if there was more difference between the powers, but the fact is there is quite a bit of sameness across the class powers. The only one of those three and half powers that is usually worth it is the utility power (the exception are those that multiclass from a class lacking AoEs into something like wizard, so basically only about 15% of full heroic tier multiclassing seems worth it with RAW). On top of those feats, the multiclassing character will probably have to spend his remaining two feats making those new abilities work (such as skill training (particularly if you multiclass into rogue), or armor or weapon proficiency (if you multiclass from something like wizard to fighter). All I did at the heroic tier was make it a bit easier to learn weapons and armor and skills as appropriate to the class you are multiclassing into, which frees up a couple feats for multiclassers and makes the multiclass feat chain more palatable.
At paragon level, once again it just doesn't seem like a fair trade. You are giving up three paragon powers, an at-will power, and three paragon features to learn an at will power and three powers of a lower level. A small boost in the class feature department makes this a bit more reasonable (though I still think the character is better off taking a paragon path from his main class.)
Not sure what you mean here. The current wording makes it explicit that you can't attack with two weapons at once unless you have a power that says so. Do you intend to let someone holding two weapons attack with both on the same round?
If they learn the two-weapon fighting feat, I assume they are attacking with both weapons as the same time, just they pick one that is dealing the majority of the damage. (I don't imagine that because you are holding a dagger in your off-hand you for some reason are hitting harder with the longsword in your main hand.) Also, if you learn certain ranger powers without having ranger as your main class, you can attack separately with two weapons but need to use an "off-hand" weapon.
I do not feel that simply having a weapon in one hand makes it harder to use a weapon in the other hand. It is when you actively use two large weapons at the same time that there is an issue, because you end up accidentally hitting your own weapons.
I made this caveat for people who wish to do what WotC's defiant rake can do, and use a crossbow with one hand and a rapier in another. I do not think that holding the crossbow in the other hand makes it any harder to fence, and I do not think that holding a sword in your unused hand makes it any harder to shoot.
Mechanically fine, but I don't like your flavor text.
So, let your PCs pay a feat to have the high-crit property on their light blade, but call it something else.
It is referring to the dueling sabers, not cavalry sabers. And sabers are NOT the heaviest fencing weapon (in fact, they are the blades of little girly-men who can't fence with a real weapon), but regardless, as a fencing weapon, they should be light blades so as to be usable with most of the dex-based melee powers.
So essentially, what you're saying is that multiclassing isn't worth it if the powers you're poaching have close enough analogues in your in-class powers that it's mainly pointless.
Yes. I don't see why this is a problem. If the powers on any given level are essentially the same, you probably wouldn't notice a multiclass regardless of whether you had to spend a feat or not. Essentially, you're opening up pointless multiclassing for the sake of nominal gains?
I also think the fighting styles for the ranger should be a part of the default multiclass feat, so that you can take ranger paragon paths.
Gadren:
So essentially, what you're saying is that multiclassing isn't worth it if the powers you're poaching have close enough analogues in your in-class powers that it's mainly pointless.
Yes. I don't see why this is a problem. If the powers on any given level are essentially the same, you probably wouldn't notice a multiclass regardless of whether you had to spend a feat or not. Essentially, you're opening up pointless multiclassing for the sake of nominal gains?
..I'm not really sure the point Rox is trying to make here. Can someone translate?
The one thing that bothers me about paragon multiclassing is that you are giving up 3 paragon features in exchange for the ability to swap an at-will. That seems more like one feature to me. I would ammend the class-specific multiclass feats to give access to additional class features if you choose to take paragon multiclassing. For instance, the Wizard one could give access to the spellbook at 11th and one of the implement masteries at 16th. The Cleric one could give access to Channel Divinity at 11th and an extra healing word per day at 16th. And so on.
I also think the fighting styles for the ranger should be a part of the default multiclass feat, so that you can take ranger paragon paths.
If you read my paragon multiclass rule, that is pretty much what I did.
Though I forgot about the problems with ranger fighting styles, warlock pacts, etc. with paragon paths. I meant to write a rule to address that, too.
...Did you really just say that Dilettante is by far the best racial ability? Really? REALLY?
Yes, although I admit it's not based on experience. I haven't played or DMed for a half-elf yet. On the other hand, think of a tactical warlord that borrows Thunderwave, or a protecting paladin that borrows Eyebite. Dilettante can set you up for some really nasty per-encounter combos, and it doesn't incur the feat cost that full multiclassing does.
As far as almost everything else goes, you've clearly put a lot of consideration into it. You sound like a great DM, and I hope your players appreciate the time and effort you're putting into the game.
It is referring to the dueling sabers, not cavalry sabers. And sabers are NOT the heaviest fencing weapon (in fact, they are the blades of little girly-men who can't fence with a real weapon), but regardless, as a fencing weapon, they should be light blades so as to be usable with most of the dex-based melee powers.
I fenced epee, although I was very bad at it. I was taught that sabers were heavier than epee, but according to you and Wikipedia, my (college club-level) instructor was wrong. Mea culpa.
Hey, I'm not sure if this is the right forum, but it seemed the most appropriate one I could find on the 4e forums.
Anyways, I was hoping to get some input on my 4e campaigns house rules!:
Character Creation:
-Tieflings may exchange their +2 to intelligence for a +2 to dexterity at character creation
-Half-elves may exchange their +2 to constitution for a +2 to dexterity at character creation
-Half-elves get Skill Training or Jack of All Trades as a racial bonus feat at first level.
-Opposed to what the PHB Errata says, Half-elves may choose any 1st level at-will power for their Dilettante racial ability (such as a Wizard's cantrip or Paladin's Lay on Hands).
-Small creatures (including PCs such as halflings) receive a +2 bonus to stealth checks.
-Halflings get a +1 to all defenses against attacks with the fear keyword (in addition to "Bold").
-All races in the back of the Monster Manual 1 are acceptable as PC choices.
1). So Kobolds a palyable race can essentially get a +9 to stealth before dex figured in? (+2 racial +2 feat +5 training), meaning PC kobold warlocks can (at the cost of a feat) every round make a stealth check at +4(+Dex) to avoid being seen?
2). Half elves are more flexible than Humans with your rules.
Subnote about lay on hands and cantrips It wasn't needed to be errat'd that they couldn't get those, those were Class Features that added a power, Not at wills normally, the errata (I think) was more to prevent certain high level rogue at wills.
Multiclassing:
-Class-Specific Multiclass Feats: In addition to the benefits listed, if the class you multiclass into is proficient with better armor, shields, or weapons than your current class, you can gain two feats for the cost of one when using them to learn proficiency with those armors, shields, or weapons. You must still meet the prerequisites for those feats. For example, a wizard who takes the Soldier of Faith feat could learn Armory Proficiency (Leather) and Weapon Proficiency (Longsword) for the cost of one feat instead of two.
So 1st level human warlock with solider of faith can pick up Hide and Greatsword proficency. A little unbalanced, but probably not too terribly.
-Power Swap Feats: When you take your second power swap feat, you gain training in one extra class skill from the class that you multiclassed in to.
Which means 2feats for 1. Again mildly unbalanced, probably not terribly.
-Paragon Multiclassing: If you choose advanced multiclassing instead of a paragon path at 11th level, you gain the choice of an additional benefit besides the ones listed in the PHB. This benefit is decided by the DM on a class-by-class basis, but here are two examples that should give you a good idea:
Someone multiclassing into Paladin could learn to increase their use of Divine Challenge to twice per encounter (thrice at level 16), or they could learn Lay on Hands as an encounter power.
Someone multiclassing into Warlord could improve their Inspiring Word power to an encounter power usable (charisma modifier) times per day, or they could learn one Commanding Presence ability, which could be applied to the remainder of one encounter per day as a free action.
This one probably isn't too bad.
Equipment:
-Change the wording of the off-hand weapon property description from "...while holding a weapon in your main hand..." to "...while attacking with a weapon in your main hand..."
-New superior weapon: Saber : same stats as scimitar, but light blade group instead.
Off the top my head Duelist Saber +1d8(per plus)+1d12 on a crit with CA.
The "Retcon" Rule: When new feats and powers first become available, they can replace known feats or powers for "free" (no retraining required). Also, options usually only available at character creation can be applied when introduced into an ongoing campaign. (Such as the above tiefling and half-elf options.)
I generally do this anyway. I think its fine.
It's bad game design imo. Leave the inital multiclassing feat alone, it's already a very good feat. Anything more is munchkinism at its finest - you will ensure that every PC is multiclassed just to stay on par with the powergamers.
As for the other feats. The other multiclassing feats need work, I'll admit that. I'd recommend reducing multiclassing to 2 feats before Paragon. The second feat should allow you to select powers from both lists (and not be available before level 7). Consider having this multiclassing feat grant one armor and one weapon proficiency from the additional class.
Paragon multiclassing. Here is where the multiclass should get all of the weapon and armor proficiency for the second class. Giving a PC a 3rd at will with Paragon (instead of swapping) would not be out of sorts either. Open up the Paragon encounter and daily to either list.
What I mean is that you're essentially complaining that the multiclass feats are inferior for a Fighter who wants to take out one of his Striker-like powers and then take an off-ability actual Striker power from the Rogue list.
Why the hell would he want to do that? What's the difference? Just change the name of the original in-class ability to suit flavor. It's a power similar to the power you're getting the feat for. What's the point of multiclassing that?
Multiclass feats are for getting powers your class doesn't get, like serious AoE effects for Fighters and Warlords or multitarget effects for Rogues. Rangers might want to get easy debuff powers to supe up their debuff line. These are the powers you want, and when you take the feats to get them, they're worth just about as much as any other feat, arguably better.