Crossbreed Characters? Please help. - Downloaded from the Wizards Community, all coding removed by Solauren

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
#1 kenlar Jun 20, 2010 15:10:57	Here's a not-so-wierd concept that me and my DM came up with: Crossbreed Characters. It is as simple as it sounds. In a way, it is just like multiclassing, but with races instead of classes. Instead of only allowing Half-Elves (half elf, half human) how about some more exotic character races? Like Half-Dragonborn-Half-Dwarf? Or Half-Elf-Half-Deva? The point in crossbreed characters is simply to add more variety to the world. Rules about crossbreed: You only gain half the bonuses from the races (if would gain +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Int and +2 Dex, you would only have +1 Dex, +2 Int and +1 Wis for Half-Elf-Half-Deva). Skill bonuses are also halved (+2 Arcana, +2 Perception, +2 Arcana and +2 History would give +2 Arcana, +1 Perception and +1 History for Half-Elf-Half-Deva). You gain both racial features, but can only use one of them every day (instead of every encounter. We consider changing this to '1 use per Milestone'.) You automatically know the native language of the two races as well as common (Elven, Draconic and Common if you're a Half-Elf-Half-Dragonborn). YOU MUST BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN HOW YOUR CROSSBREED RACE FITS INTO THE STORY! I would like some feedback on the idea, and hopefully it might develop into something more detailed than just this outline of what we have thought of so far.
#2 Damon_Tor Jun 20, 2010 17:58:21	It's not terrible. I'd make the racial powers function more like when a race like drow or revenant can potentially have two racial powers: using one simply expends the use of the other. The problems start to crop up once you realize how non-standardized the races are. For example, humans have no racial power, and instead have a bonus at-will, and instead of an interestng racial feature they have an extra feat. How would this fit into your plans. A dwarf's minor action second wind is effectively their racial power, as is a half-elf's dilettante. How would you (or would you?) word the inclusion of these features into the racial power rule? How does a racial power like Shifting, which is far more powerful and generally useful than most racial powers, fit into the system; shifters trade that power for a lack of other racial features. In the end, I think you'll need to come up with a "half-race" system for each indicidual race, just like the hybrid system has a "half-class" concept.
#3 ifritus Jun 20, 2010 18:29:57	Im working on a ruleset: will post in a wee while.
#4 ifritus Jun 20, 2010 20:09:59	CROSSBREEDING RULESET Show Elves and Humans are not the only races to interbreed: they are merely the most common. NAME The name of the race has to make sense: In human cases merely place “Half” in front of the second race. Take elements of each name and join them, or a new one that makes sense. FLAVOUR SPEECH A quick underlining of the main qualities you are taking from the two races RACIAL TRAITS AVARAGE HEIGHT AND WEIGHT Each race has a low and high average height and weight threshold, merely add them and divide by 2 to get the crossbreed races’ low and high height and weight thresholds. ABILITY SCORES If the two races share a common ability score, then that ability must be one of the crossbreed’s the other one may be whichever one you wish. SIZE If both races are of the same size, then the crossbreed inherits this: if not then you must choose which one you want the crossbreed to have. SPEED AND VISION For speed, average the two racial speeds, or if they are the same: keep it. For vision, choose one if they are different, but keep it the same, if the two races share the same vision. However, if you choose the speed/vision of one race, then the other must come from the other race. LANGUAGES Meld them. SKILL BONUSES Each race has a primary and secondary skill bonus, (Elf: Primary (nature), Secondary (Perception). Choose the primary from one race, and the secondary from the other. RACIAL FEATURES. All crossbreed gain the Dual Heritage feature, allowing them access to the feats of the two races they are descended from. However. There are still 3 racial features to fill, and the third one is an encounter power. You could take two features and synch them, or create entirely different ones, but they have to fit the race. PHYSICAL QUALITIES Envision your race: which features does it take from its two ancestries?
#5 Cohen95 Jun 20, 2010 21:33:39	I would do ability scores more like the way they do them for PH3 races and Changeling. In the instance of the "Dracoling" I would give +2 Cha, and +2 to either Str or Int. This lines up better with the original races. The obvious problem comes in when combining, say, a Dwarf and a Halfling. +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Dex, +2 Cha. Now, you can reconcile that slightly by having a design rule that when two of the scores have the same related Defense, and two do not, then the "variable" ability boost applies to the two related scores (In the the Dwarfling case, +2 to either Wis or Cha), but the other two would have to be handled more on a case by case basis (In this case, since Dwarves are known to not be particularly agile, I would say +2 Con is more appropriate). For the full write up, I would probably do it in two parts. One part describing each "half" race's mechanics and racial traits. This part would include Size, Base Speed, and Vision, where you would get the "better" of each half race's traits, as well as Languages, Skill Bonuses, and racial buffs, where you get all that apply to either class (just make sure you balance the racial buffs carefully). Skill bonuses can be easily handled two ways. Either you get a +1 to all four racial skills, or you choose one skill from each race and get a +2. A +2 isn't a very game-breaking bonus, and allowing the player to choose which two skills he gained a knack for just helps his background, IMO. In addition to that, I'd have a cross-reference chart for ability scores. That you way you can work those out a bit seperately, and handle each racial pairing on a case-by-case basis. This makes it easier to balance combos like, say, Eladrin\|Kalashtar with, say, Dragonborn\|Dwarf. It will also allow you to address the potential problems of, say, Changeling\|Gith. You may also want to consider a feat not unlike Hybrid Talent, which you could take once (and only once). That can be added later, though. Do the regular racial write-ups, and then, when (and if) you decide to introduce the feat, just add one or two options for each race. You could, alternatively, do a full system of feats, one for each race, with a prerequisite of being a Racial Hybrid, and have the feat give some extra bonus, as though that race's blood is somehow more dominant in that character. Just include "Special: You may only have one [Hybrid Bloodline] feat." or something like that. I look forward to seeing Warforged\|Anything (though Warforged\|Shardmind would actually be interesting).
#6 ifritus Jun 21, 2010 5:18:43	Ah... but by doing the "half-XXX" rules you are insinuating that EVERY SINGLE race crossbreeds with EVRY OTHER one.... but some might not for flavour reasons... (elf/Drow) Arent Warforged just constructed "humanoids" made out of metal n Stuff?? If so, then it could be quiet easy to incorporate each race into it :+) they are Called the WARForged.... so lets take "Forged"as the half warforged part of the name. So it could be as follows: Dragonforged Dwarf-forged Eladri-forged elf-forged and so on.... basically keep +CON as a stat for being warforged, and the construct bit... add in one or two features n all that. for physical looks: It is simply a warforged with parts that have been casted in a mould of the other race, but they look metallic... Are warforged smaller than the usual human?~? Just a thought
#7 BoltHammer Jun 21, 2010 8:38:43	It is an interesting idea, and if it works in with your game -- all good. And as you said, the new race has to be approved and fit into the story of the gameworld. As an alternative, though, one might consider using the existing system of the Bloodline/Heritage feats. This would eliminate Half-Elves as a race. An then you would construct what ever race Bloodline feats, i.e.: Dwarven Bloodline, Elven Bloodline, Human Bloodline, etc. Perhaps using the Deva Bloodline feat as a reference. Then one would select their base race (which of the two crossbreed contributing race the character would favor) and then have them take the desired flavoring race feat at creation. The bloodline feat would allow them to take feats with said race requirement and would give them a feature of the flavored race. I remember reading somewhere when they created the vampire bloodline feat the aurthor of that feat was excited to use these types of feats in new and interesting ways (such as the create a race type without having the actually create a whole new race from scratch). Anyways just a thought. Edit to improve read-ability.....
#8 Cohen95 Jun 21, 2010 22:51:49	Ah... but by doing the "half-XXX" rules you are insinuating that EVERY SINGLE race crossbreeds with EVRY OTHER one.... but some might not for flavour reasons... (elf/Drow) You can handle the "fair races" (eladrin, elf, drow, and maybe half-elf) any number of ways. Perhaps, being Eladrin or Drow depends on being raised around the culture. The races are Fey, and the inherent magic of those races is part of what helps make one a member of that race. Therefore, a halfbreed raised in an Eladrin community is simply a particularly dark-skinned one (which may even fade over time), while one raised in a Drow community is just a lighter-skinned one (with darker hair). Either way, being raised in a non-fey community fails to imbue the child with enough inherent magics to become anything more than a Halfelf (or Elf, maybe). This helps allow you to effectively eliminate certain crossbreeds (reflected on the chart by a big red X). As for the -Forged, I like that idea. Just make them effectively cyborg looking. They look mostly like their other base race, though they may be taller, stockier, and have maybe -Forged legs and perhaps an arm. Although, that's less of a crossbreed and more of a template, but it can still work, when only allowed at character creation.

Post/Author/DateTime

Post

kenlar

Jun 20, 2010 15:10:57

Here's a not-so-wierd concept that me and my DM came up with: Crossbreed Characters. It is as simple as it sounds. In a way, it is just like multiclassing, but with races instead of classes. Instead of only allowing Half-Elves (half elf, half human) how about some more exotic character races? Like Half-Dragonborn-Half-Dwarf? Or Half-Elf-Half-Deva?

The point in crossbreed characters is simply to add more variety to the world.

Rules about crossbreed:

You only gain half the bonuses from the races (if would gain +2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Int and +2 Dex, you would only have +1 Dex, +2 Int and +1 Wis for Half-Elf-Half-Deva).

Skill bonuses are also halved (+2 Arcana, +2 Perception, +2 Arcana and +2 History would give +2 Arcana, +1 Perception and +1 History for Half-Elf-Half-Deva).

You gain both racial features, but can only use one of them every day (instead of every encounter. We consider changing this to '1 use per Milestone'.)

You automatically know the native language of the two races as well as common (Elven, Draconic and Common if you're a Half-Elf-Half-Dragonborn).

YOU MUST BE ABLE TO EXPLAIN HOW YOUR CROSSBREED RACE FITS INTO THE STORY!

I would like some feedback on the idea, and hopefully it might develop into something more detailed than just this outline of what we have thought of so far.

Damon_Tor

Jun 20, 2010 17:58:21

It's not terrible. I'd make the racial powers function more like when a race like drow or revenant can potentially have two racial powers: using one simply expends the use of the other.

The problems start to crop up once you realize how non-standardized the races are. For example, humans have no racial power, and instead have a bonus at-will, and instead of an interestng racial feature they have an extra feat. How would this fit into your plans.

A dwarf's minor action second wind is effectively their racial power, as is a half-elf's dilettante. How would you (or would you?) word the inclusion of these features into the racial power rule?

How does a racial power like Shifting, which is far more powerful and generally useful than most racial powers, fit into the system; shifters trade that power for a lack of other racial features.

In the end, I think you'll need to come up with a "half-race" system for each indicidual race, just like the hybrid system has a "half-class" concept.

ifritus

Jun 20, 2010 18:29:57

Im working on a ruleset: will post in a wee while.

ifritus

Jun 20, 2010 20:09:59

CROSSBREEDING RULESET

Show

Elves and Humans are not the only races to interbreed: they are merely the most common.

NAME
The name of the race has to make sense: In human cases merely place “Half” in front of the second race.
Take elements of each name and join them, or a new one that makes sense.

FLAVOUR SPEECH
A quick underlining of the main qualities you are taking from the two races

RACIAL TRAITS
AVARAGE HEIGHT AND WEIGHT
Each race has a low and high average height and weight threshold, merely add them and divide by 2 to get the crossbreed races’ low and high height and weight thresholds.

ABILITY SCORES
If the two races share a common ability score, then that ability must be one of the crossbreed’s the other one may be whichever one you wish.

SIZE
If both races are of the same size, then the crossbreed inherits this: if not then you must choose which one you want the crossbreed to have.

SPEED AND VISION
For speed, average the two racial speeds, or if they are the same: keep it. For vision, choose one if they are different, but keep it the same, if the two races share the same vision. However, if you choose the speed/vision of one race, then the other must come from the other race.

LANGUAGES
Meld them.

SKILL BONUSES
Each race has a primary and secondary skill bonus, (Elf: Primary (nature), Secondary (Perception). Choose the primary from one race, and the secondary from the other.

RACIAL FEATURES.
All crossbreed gain the Dual Heritage feature, allowing them access to the feats of the two races they are descended from. However. There are still 3 racial features to fill, and the third one is an encounter power.
You could take two features and synch them, or create entirely different ones, but they have to fit the race.

PHYSICAL QUALITIES
Envision your race: which features does it take from its two ancestries?

Cohen95

Jun 20, 2010 21:33:39

I would do ability scores more like the way they do them for PH3 races and Changeling. In the instance of the "Dracoling" I would give +2 Cha, and +2 to either Str or Int. This lines up better with the original races.

The obvious problem comes in when combining, say, a Dwarf and a Halfling. +2 Con, +2 Wis, +2 Dex, +2 Cha. Now, you can reconcile that slightly by having a design rule that when two of the scores have the same related Defense, and two do not, then the "variable" ability boost applies to the two related scores (In the the Dwarfling case, +2 to either Wis or Cha), but the other two would have to be handled more on a case by case basis (In this case, since Dwarves are known to not be particularly agile, I would say +2 Con is more appropriate).

For the full write up, I would probably do it in two parts. One part describing each "half" race's mechanics and racial traits. This part would include Size, Base Speed, and Vision, where you would get the "better" of each half race's traits, as well as Languages, Skill Bonuses, and racial buffs, where you get all that apply to either class (just make sure you balance the racial buffs carefully).

Skill bonuses can be easily handled two ways. Either you get a +1 to all four racial skills, or you choose one skill from each race and get a +2. A +2 isn't a very game-breaking bonus, and allowing the player to choose which two skills he gained a knack for just helps his background, IMO.

In addition to that, I'd have a cross-reference chart for ability scores. That you way you can work those out a bit seperately, and handle each racial pairing on a case-by-case basis. This makes it easier to balance combos like, say, Eladrin|Kalashtar with, say, Dragonborn|Dwarf. It will also allow you to address the potential problems of, say, Changeling|Gith.

You may also want to consider a feat not unlike Hybrid Talent, which you could take once (and only once). That can be added later, though. Do the regular racial write-ups, and then, when (and if) you decide to introduce the feat, just add one or two options for each race. You could, alternatively, do a full system of feats, one for each race, with a prerequisite of being a Racial Hybrid, and have the feat give some extra bonus, as though that race's blood is somehow more dominant in that character. Just include "Special: You may only have one [Hybrid Bloodline] feat." or something like that.

I look forward to seeing Warforged|Anything

(though Warforged|Shardmind would actually be interesting).

ifritus

Jun 21, 2010 5:18:43

Ah... but by doing the "half-XXX" rules you are insinuating that EVERY SINGLE race crossbreeds with EVRY OTHER one.... but some might not for flavour reasons... (elf/Drow)

Arent Warforged just constructed "humanoids" made out of metal n Stuff??

If so, then it could be quiet easy to incorporate each race into it :+)

they are Called the WARForged.... so lets take "Forged"as the half warforged part of the name.

So it could be as follows:

Dragonforged
Dwarf-forged
Eladri-forged
elf-forged

and so on....

basically keep +CON as a stat for being warforged, and the construct bit... add in one or two features n all that.

for physical looks: It is simply a warforged with parts that have been casted in a mould of the other race, but they look metallic... Are warforged smaller than the usual human?~?

Just a thought

BoltHammer

Jun 21, 2010 8:38:43

It is an interesting idea, and if it works in with your game -- all good. And as you said, the new race has to be approved and fit into the story of the gameworld. As an alternative, though, one might consider using the existing system of the Bloodline/Heritage feats.

This would eliminate Half-Elves as a race. An then you would construct what ever race Bloodline feats, i.e.: Dwarven Bloodline, Elven Bloodline, Human Bloodline, etc. Perhaps using the Deva Bloodline feat as a reference.

Then one would select their base race (which of the two crossbreed contributing race the character would favor) and then have them take the desired flavoring race feat at creation.

The bloodline feat would allow them to take feats with said race requirement and would give them a feature of the flavored race.

I remember reading somewhere when they created the vampire bloodline feat the aurthor of that feat was excited to use these types of feats in new and interesting ways (such as the create a race type without having the actually create a whole new race from scratch).

Anyways just a thought.

Edit to improve read-ability.....

Cohen95

Jun 21, 2010 22:51:49

Ah... but by doing the "half-XXX" rules you are insinuating that EVERY SINGLE race crossbreeds with EVRY OTHER one.... but some might not for flavour reasons... (elf/Drow)

You can handle the "fair races" (eladrin, elf, drow, and maybe half-elf) any number of ways. Perhaps, being Eladrin or Drow depends on being raised around the culture. The races are Fey, and the inherent magic of those races is part of what helps make one a member of that race. Therefore, a halfbreed raised in an Eladrin community is simply a particularly dark-skinned one (which may even fade over time), while one raised in a Drow community is just a lighter-skinned one (with darker hair). Either way, being raised in a non-fey community fails to imbue the child with enough inherent magics to become anything more than a Halfelf (or Elf, maybe).

This helps allow you to effectively eliminate certain crossbreeds (reflected on the chart by a big red X).

As for the -Forged, I like that idea. Just make them effectively cyborg looking. They look mostly like their other base race, though they may be taller, stockier, and have maybe -Forged legs and perhaps an arm. Although, that's less of a crossbreed and more of a template, but it can still work, when only allowed at character creation.